Tell me about your experiences with co-sleeping and the family bed

[mrs_abbott]

Sorry but I tend to agree with Ezzo. I have read other theories of his in several classes and he is actually quite intelligent in the area of child development. jumping up everytime a child fusses is only going to spoil the child.They have a need. and it should be attended to. I dont think Ezzo’s method or any other child development method is in line or out of line with Church’s teachings. Its a parents decision. not the Church.

But Ham1 was implying that the Church teaches that you should have a family bed and wake your child up all the time because it’s “developmental bad” to let your baby sleep through the night. Ezzo said nothing of that sort in that article.

 

[TarAshly]

But Ham1 was implying that the Church teaches that you should have a family bed and wake your child up all the time because it’s “developmental bad” to let your baby sleep through the night. Ezzo said nothing of that sort in that article.

Exactly. Ezzo’s theories shouldnt be dismissed. The entire article is Anti Ezzo! I am pro Ezzo. He has a good point. quite a few actually. I was disagreeing with Ham1. I have never heard that the church requests a family bed…ever…In fact I have never heard of the church speaking out about infant sleeping patterns. Like I said, its a parents decision, not the churchs. everyone feels differently. I personally disagree with the family bed idea. Open door policy sure. but not the family bed.

 

[Karin]

Ham1 was saying or implying that those of us that do not cosleep with our kids are not responding when they fuss or are hungry in the middle of the night…I for one do respond to my kids when they are in their own rooms/beds etc.
I do not need to share my bed or bedroom with my child just to comfort them, feed them, change them or whatever else.
Also none of my kids is “damaged” because they sleep in their own beds in their own rooms and never shared a bed or a room with me past the age of 6 months!

 

[TarAshly]

Ham1 was saying or implying that those of us that do not cosleep with our kids are not responding when they fuss or are hungry in the middle of the night…I for one do respond to my kids when they are in their own rooms/beds etc.
I do not need to share my bed or bedroom with my child just to comfort them, feed them, change them or whatever else.
Also none of my kids is “damaged” because they sleep in their own beds in their own rooms and never shared a bed or a room with me past the age of 6 months!

no no no youre misunderstanding me Karin. I agree with you, I disagree with Ham1’s position.

 

[Ham1]

Exactly. Ezzo’s theories shouldnt be dismissed. The entire article is Anti Ezzo! I am pro Ezzo. He has a good point. quite a few actually. I was disagreeing with Ham1. I have never heard that the church requests a family bed…ever…In fact I have never heard of the church speaking out about infant sleeping patterns. Like I said, its a parents decision, not the churchs. everyone feels differently. I personally disagree with the family bed idea. Open door policy sure. but not the family bed.

Did you read the article?

In light of the article, how do you reconcile your pro-Ezzo position with the Catholic view of the human person and Natural law?

Karin, lighten up. I’m just stating a case based on the philosophical traditions of Catholicism. You are free to disagree if you want, but don’t claim that your style of parenting is perfectly in synch with the Catholic view of the human person, because it isn’t. It’s a modernist parenting style that was invented in the last 100 years, rejects the natural rhythms of the human body, and is wholly a part of the same medical establishment that brought us bottlefeeding, overmedication and contraception.

 

[TarAshly]

Did you read the article?

In light of the article, how do you reconcile your pro-Ezzo position with the Catholic view of the human person and Natural law?

Karin, lighten up. I’m just stating a case based on the philosophical traditions of Catholicism. You are free to disagree if you want, but don’t claim that your style of parenting is perfectly in synch with the Catholic view of the human person, because it isn’t. It’s a modernist parenting style that was invented in the last 100 years, rejects the natural rhythms of the human body, and is wholly a part of the same medical establishment that brought us bottlefeeding, overmedication and contraception.

I disagree with your statement towards Karin. can you please show some Catholic documentation telling us how we should parent? so articles or something? I read the article. Its EXTREMELY biased. it doesnt show both sides of the story and therefore isnt real valid to me. can you show a document presenting both sides. besides your reaction to Karin is pretty rude. no one should call anyone a bad mother.

 

[Karin]

Karin, lighten up. I’m just stating a case based on the philosophical traditions of Catholicism. You are free to disagree if you want, but don’t claim that your style of parenting is perfectly in synch with the Catholic view of the human person, because it isn’t. It’s a modernist parenting style that was invented in the last 100 years, rejects the natural rhythms of the human body, and is wholly a part of the same medical establishment that brought us bottlefeeding, overmedication and contraception.

Ham1-
Lets start with “lighen up”…your calling me a bad mother but I should lighten up?! Are you even a parent?
My parenting style is partly dictated by my kids…if they do not want to sleep in my bed or room that is fine. If they sleep (on there own without training) through the night that is also fine.
as to your comments about bottle feeding…never did it. My kids where breast feed and guess what you can breast feed without having your kids sleep in the same room or bed as you…becuase my kids sleep through the night this makes me a bad mom and my kids damaged? Go figure my eldest son who is in school is an honors student in one of NJ’s best Catholic High Schools. Neither of my kids is over medicated…we do 99% organic in our house and homeopathic treatments…go figure
As of yet you have failed to provide any Catholic CHurch teaching that states I need to share my bed with my kids or even my bedroom.
Affecting the natural rythm of the human body…I would think forcing my kids to wake up every few hours would be more of “bad” thing …waking myself up when I do not need to be awake is also a BAD thing…cranky mommies are no fun

 

[Karin]

no no no youre misunderstanding me Karin. I agree with you, I disagree with Ham1’s position.

TarAshly-
OK I confuse easily…thanks for the clarification

Tarashly:

I disagree with your statement towards Karin. can you please show some Catholic documentation telling us how we should parent? so articles or something? I read the article. Its EXTREMELY biased. it doesnt show both sides of the story and therefore isnt real valid to me. can you show a document presenting both sides. besides your reaction to Karin is pretty rude. no one should call anyone a bad mother.

Thank you…my words can not express how much this means!

 

[Ham1]

First off, I never called anyone a bad mother.

Yes, I am a parent.

I am sure your children are successful. One can choose to parent all sorts of ways and still end up with good well adjusted children. That doesn’t mean then that all methods are equal. Some fit better with Catholic philosophy some don’t fit at all. Ezzo, for instance is utterly contrary to natural law and Catholic theology. Can kids still grow up fine? Sure, but that doesn’t mean it’s a perfectly legitimate parenting style.

To TarAshly, can you present a convincing argument for Ezzo based on Catholic theology, philosophy and natural law? Please ask for advice from some of the many mother’s on this board about the value of Ezzo.

For the record, I am not advocating anyone wake kids up at night. I am not even advocating that everyone must have all children in bed with them at all times.

What I am advocating is that people look at where “methods” of parenting have come from. What are the underlying principles behind a method? How do those principles compare with natural law? Too many times we fall into the attitude, that well, if the Church doesn’t say anything, then anything goes. God gave us revelation, he gave us the Church, and he also gave us Nature. All three reveal truths of God and his creation. We shouldn’t make the mistake of limiting ourselves to the first two and forsake the wisdom of God the Father.

 

[Jennifer_J]

Some infant sleep articles by Dr. McKenna at Notre Dame
nd.edu/~jmckenn1/lab/articles.html

Here’s a previous thread on Catholic AP parenting.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=6205

Jennifer

 

[TarAshly]

Some infant sleep articles by Dr. McKenna at Notre Dame
nd.edu/~jmckenn1/lab/articles.html

Here’s a previous thread on Catholic AP parenting.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=6205

Jennifer

cool but I want CHURCH documents on parenting. Something from the Vatican or someone with the power to speak for the Vatican. Not theories. youre theory, my theory, his theory, her theory. Theories are like elbows, everyone has a couple. I can promise you I have been thoroughly educated in the field of child developement and I have the student loan bills to prove it ! Karin is a great mom, who obviously loves her children very very much and seems to be a great mommy. Hams comments were mean plain and simple. whether intended or not they came across mean. secondly I HAVE YET to see anything from the CHURCH. thats what I need to see to further my view point on this.

 

[ReginaNova]

Why must every thread on co-sleeping (and homeschooling) become so confrontational? I don’t see why those who practice co-sleeping and homeschooling feel they must convince everyone else that theirs is the one, only, and best way. I suspect it is because they run into disapproval from family and friends. If you feel strongly that it is right for you and your family–and neither the Church nor your doctor objects–then do it. Just don’t lay a guilt trip or disapprove of others who put their children in a separate bed in a separate room or who “train” their children to fall and stay asleep. Or, God forbid, who send their children to a Catholic or public school. Please folks, agree to disagree!

 

[Ham1]

cool but I want CHURCH documents on parenting. Something from the Vatican or someone with the power to speak for the Vatican. Not theories. youre theory, my theory, his theory, her theory. Theories are like elbows, everyone has a couple. I can promise you I have been thoroughly educated in the field of child developement and I have the student loan bills to prove it ! Karin is a great mom, who obviously loves her children very very much and seems to be a great mommy. Hams comments were mean plain and simple. whether intended or not they came across mean. secondly I HAVE YET to see anything from the CHURCH. thats what I need to see to further my view point on this.

Instead of waiting for the Church to highlight the nuances of every facet of life, why not learn about Nature and natural law and apply those findings in the context of the great theinkers of western civilization…you know, kind of like Mezzetti did when he used Aristotle, St. Paul, St. Thomas Aquinas, and John Paul II to prove the essentials of the human person and the proper way to nurture such a person. God the Father gave you Nature, study it and you will realize His wisdom.

 

[JezuUfamTobie]

The Ezzos are a bit extreme, and I don’t think that it’s very useful to debate their practices in this forum and especially not in this thread. Based on what she has recommended to the OP, TarAshly clearly doesn’t ascribe to all of what the Ezzos preach. She is far more loving and moderate and she shouldn’t have to answer for them. Trying to get her to do so is just tearing down a straw man.

The topic at hand is the family bed (not spanking or scheduling or any other opinion of the Ezzos) and there are plenty of more coherent and competent authorities on the subject than the Ezzos and their prominent detractors, on both sides of the fence. Someone (like Karin, TarAshly, or myself) who approves of Weissbluth’s “extinction” method or the Ferber method of encouraging healthy and ample sleep in an older child should not be compared to someone who places newborns on strict schedules and allows them to pitifully cry their hearts out in a new and unfamiliar environment. These methods are wildly different and philosophically unrelated.

It would be very interesting to debate the subject further on its own thread, with the aim of pursuing truth in charity rather than “winning” or furthering a particular agenda.

 

[mrs_abbott]

Why must every thread on co-sleeping (and homeschooling) become so confrontational? I don’t see why those who practice co-sleeping and homeschooling feel they must convince everyone else that theirs is the one, only, and best way. I suspect it is because they run into disapproval from family and friends. If you feel strongly that it is right for you and your family–and neither the Church nor your doctor objects–then do it. Just don’t lay a guilt trip or disapprove of others who put their children in a separate bed in a separate room or who “train” their children to fall and stay asleep. Or, God forbid, who send their children to a Catholic or public school. Please folks, agree to disagree!

Well said!

 

[mrs_abbott]

Like I said, its a parents decision, not the churchs. everyone feels differently. I personally disagree with the family bed idea. Open door policy sure. but not the family bed.

We have the open door policy and I think that works just fine. I totally agree with you!

 

[TarAshly]

Instead of waiting for the Church to highlight the nuances of every facet of life, why not learn about Nature and natural law and apply those findings in the context of the great theinkers of western civilization…you know, kind of like Mezzetti did when he used Aristotle, St. Paul, St. Thomas Aquinas, and John Paul II to prove the essentials of the human person and the proper way to nurture such a person. God the Father gave you Nature, study it and you will realize His wisdom.

ok in nature, animals eat their young. Mama birds shove baby birds out of the nest to teach them to fly, so if I studied that nature…I should eat my child? if I dont eat him I should shove his out of a tree. Yea…animals have LOTS to show me about raising children. Natural Law also suggests survival of the fittest, perhaps I should be raising my child to be tough as nails then huh?

 

[TarAshly]

The Ezzos are a bit extreme, and I don’t think that it’s very useful to debate their practices in this forum and especially not in this thread. Based on what she has recommended to the OP, TarAshly clearly doesn’t ascribe to all of what the Ezzos preach. She is far more loving and moderate and she shouldn’t have to answer for them. Trying to get her to do so is just tearing down a straw man.

The topic at hand is the family bed (not spanking or scheduling or any other opinion of the Ezzos) and there are plenty of more coherent and competent authorities on the subject than the Ezzos and their prominent detractors, on both sides of the fence. Someone (like Karin, TarAshly, or myself) who approves of Weissbluth’s “extinction” method or the Ferber method of encouraging healthy and ample sleep in an older child should not be compared to someone who places newborns on strict schedules and allows them to pitifully cry their hearts out in a new and unfamiliar environment. These methods are wildly different and philosophically unrelated.

It would be very interesting to debate the subject further on its own thread, with the aim of pursuing truth in charity rather than “winning” or furthering a particular agenda.

THANK YOU!!!

 

[Ham1]

ok in nature, animals eat their young. Mama birds shove baby birds out of the nest to teach them to fly, so if I studied that nature…I should eat my child? if I dont eat him I should shove his out of a tree. Yea…animals have LOTS to show me about raising children. Natural Law also suggests survival of the fittest, perhaps I should be raising my child to be tough as nails then huh?

Ummm…Nature as a philosophical and theological term is a word meaning the design of God the Father in creation. It means that there is a certain order written in creation. This order is different in plants and animals and man. Although there are commonalities between them not all is the same. The things you describe are natural for an animal, but not for a man. In fact, they are unnatural for a man because they are against God’s design. Natural Law doesn’t suggest survival of the fittest, it suggests the dignity of the human person. I hope this clears it up for you.

 

[mrs_abbott]

Ummm…Nature as a philosophical and theological term is a word meaning the design of God the Father in creation. It means that there is a certain order written in creation. This order is different in plants and animals and man. Although there are commonalities between them not all is the same. The things you describe are natural for an animal, but not for a man. In fact, they are unnatural for a man because they are against God’s design. Natural Law doesn’t suggest survival of the fittest, it suggests the dignity of the human person. I hope this clears it up for you.

How do you know what God’s design is???