Tell me about your experiences with co-sleeping and the family bed

[TarAshly]

Ummm…Nature as a philosophical and theological term is a word meaning the design of God the Father in creation. It means that there is a certain order written in creation. This order is different in plants and animals and man. Although there are commonalities between them not all is the same. The things you describe are natural for an animal, but not for a man. In fact, they are unnatural for a man because they are against God’s design. Natural Law doesn’t suggest survival of the fittest, it suggests the dignity of the human person. I hope this clears it up for you.

its about as clear as mud. how do you presume to know what God’s design or grand plan is? and what does this have to do with Co-Sleeping?

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

Did you read the article?

In light of the article, how do you reconcile your pro-Ezzo position with the Catholic view of the human person and Natural law?

Karin, lighten up. I’m just stating a case based on the philosophical traditions of Catholicism. You are free to disagree if you want, but don’t claim that your style of parenting is perfectly in synch with the Catholic view of the human person, because it isn’t. It’s a modernist parenting style that was invented in the last 100 years, rejects the natural rhythms of the human body, and is wholly a part of the same medical establishment that brought us bottlefeeding, overmedication and contraception.

A couple things:
Bottelfeeding may be necessary at times. I am 100% pro-bf, I’ve never fed my children formula and can count with one hand the amount of times I’ve fed them pumped milk (so far), I bf throught out pregnancy with nausea, nipple soreness and all that jazz, and I may think that a mother should bf if she can (you can see a long thread on that somewhere), but bottlefeeding is not an anti-Catholic thing in itself. It can actually help conserve life. There are some situations in which the mother is not producing enough milk and may need to supplement, or the mother’s milk may be contaminated for some reason, or the child could be adopted, or for some other reason bottlefeeding is in the best interest of the child. BTW, careful to not confuse Natural Law with nature (not saying you are, but jic).

Going back to co-sleeping, if the Church did have a stance on this (which I have never seen one) I would argue (for the sake of this debate) towards it being against sleeping with children in the marital bed (which like I said, I’ve never seen it, so please don’t think I am saying the Church is against it).
An excerpt from an interview to Cardinal Trujillo which I have conveniently cropped since the interview was not on cosleeping
“We should recall the Letter to Dionisius which says that Christians are like other citizens in what they eat and how they dress, but they share everything, except one thing, the nuptial bed. This means that the nuptial bed is a place of ***conjugal, *faithful and exclusive love until death.”

 

[Ham1]

its about as clear as mud. how do you presume to know what God’s design or grand plan is? and what does this have to do with Co-Sleeping?

Sorry it isn’t clear to you. We know through experience and through instinct certain things about God’s design.

We know men and women fall in love and are called to live together. We know they are drawn to have children. We know they are drawn to love their children. A mother yearns for her child. A father defends his family against all others. A parent sacrifices his own desires for the good of his child. A man will go without food in order to feed his baby. A mother feeds her child at her breast. A father picks up his crying infant and soothes him as he walks. A toddler climbs onto his mother’s lap and holds her close. A crying child yearns to be held by his mother or father and comforted…Do I need to keep going here? There are thousands of acts, inclinations, and instincts that we don’t learn. They are written in our hearts and they are a part of God’s design for the human person. We act this way not by random occurence but because God designed us to act this way.

 

[Karin]

Sorry it isn’t clear to you. We know through experience and through instinct certain things about God’s design.

We know men and women fall in love and are called to live together. We know they are drawn to have children. We know they are drawn to love their children. A mother yearns for her child. A father defends his family against all others. A parent sacrifices his own desires for the good of his child. A man will go without food in order to feed his baby. A mother feeds her child at her breast. A father picks up his crying infant and soothes him as he walks. A toddler climbs onto his mother’s lap and holds her close. A crying child yearns to be held by his mother or father and comforted…Do I need to keep going here? There are thousands of acts, inclinations, and instincts that we don’t learn. They are written in our hearts and they are a part of God’s design for the human person. We act this way not by random occurence but because God designed us to act this way.

Hmm…
so God desinged me to sleep with my kids in my bed or in my room?
God desinged it so even though some woman yearn for a child they are infertile? God designed some woman to kill their children?
God designed all woman to b/f yet some can not?

 

[3blessings]

Wow what a thread!! I am almost afraid to post. But here it goes.
TarAshly, I forget, do you have children? I also am very educated in the field of child development. I have a B.S. in Human development and family studies, a minor in Sociology, and a certification in early childhood development. Now the reason I say this is because, just because I have that education does not make me an expert on parenting or that I know what is best. There is no education better than actually having the experience of mothering your own children, which it is obvious that so many moms on here do and are wonderful mommies, co-sleep or not bf or not, ap- parenting or not. In fact many things I “learned or read” in my college days is very contrary to my Catholic faith and I would not use them on my children or any other childen for that matter. I believe all the mommies that have posted have made the best decisions for their families and whether I agree with them or not, it is not for me to judge, lest I be judged. It does seem that sometimes ap-parents try to convince others that their way is best, but the exact same goes for non-ap-parents, depending on where you are reading or who you are talking to. Parenting is one of those things that is different for not only each parent and family, but for each child in each family. (one very important thingI learned in my education and parenting) I have three children, 19yrs, 4yr. and a 2 year old, and TTC now. I have used different parenting with each child. Somethings I can use on all some not, I agree with some AP techniques and some not. I agree with some Dr. and some not,
I guess what I am trying to say is that everyone is on a different path and there are many paths out there. No mom here sounds like they have harmed their children, and no mom on here sounds like they are going against church teaching at all. But for anyone to judge another on their parenting styles would go against church teaching. My post is not meant to be offensive to anyone and so if you are offended, it is not my intention. God bless all mommies out there and may the LOrd keep flowing his mommy graces upon you all.

 

[3blessings]

oh i forgot one thing I wanted to address as well…
Ham… i am so happy for you, that you feel like you are doing the best for your child. But your point may be taken if less judgment was used in your appraoch. I agree with some of what you are trying to say, but everyones situation doesnt follow your opinion of what GOd’s design is and your judgment on others is not God’s design and contrary to it! Charity, Charity , Charity my friend! GOd BLess you for your choices and for being able to participate in the gift of motherhood. Remember we are all given different gifts, and one is not more in God’s design than another.

 

[MooCowSteph]

Hmm…
so God desinged me to sleep with my kids in my bed or in my room?
God desinged it so even though some woman yearn for a child they are infertile? God designed some woman to kill their children?
God designed all woman to b/f yet some can not?

I think what she’s getting at is that we have to go against our natural, God given instincts to place our helpless infants in a room alone to cry.

Yes, God designed women to BF, even if some cannot, just like God designed man to walk, even though some cannot, and God designed man to love and worship Him, even though some do not.

 

[Karin]

I think what she’s getting at is that we have to go against our natural, God given instincts to place our helpless infants in a room alone to cry.

Yes, God designed women to BF, even if some cannot, just like God designed man to walk, even though some cannot, and God designed man to love and worship Him, even though some do not.

Hmm…I do not think anybody was condoning that approach…I know that I wasnt.
But then I may of missed a post where someone did mention that approach.

 

[TarAshly]

Wow what a thread!! I am almost afraid to post. But here it goes.
TarAshly, I forget, do you have children? I also am very educated in the field of child development. I have a B.S. in Human development and family studies, a minor in Sociology, and a certification in early childhood development. Now the reason I say this is because, just because I have that education does not make me an expert on parenting or that I know what is best. There is no education better than actually having the experience of mothering your own children, which it is obvious that so many moms on here do and are wonderful mommies, co-sleep or not bf or not, ap- parenting or not. In fact many things I “learned or read” in my college days is very contrary to my Catholic faith and I would not use them on my children or any other childen for that matter. I believe all the mommies that have posted have made the best decisions for their families and whether I agree with them or not, it is not for me to judge, lest I be judged. It does seem that sometimes ap-parents try to convince others that their way is best, but the exact same goes for non-ap-parents, depending on where you are reading or who you are talking to. Parenting is one of those things that is different for not only each parent and family, but for each child in each family. (one very important thingI learned in my education and parenting) I have three children, 19yrs, 4yr. and a 2 year old, and TTC now. I have used different parenting with each child. Somethings I can use on all some not, I agree with some AP techniques and some not. I agree with some Dr. and some not,
I guess what I am trying to say is that everyone is on a different path and there are many paths out there. No mom here sounds like they have harmed their children, and no mom on here sounds like they are going against church teaching at all. But for anyone to judge another on their parenting styles would go against church teaching. My post is not meant to be offensive to anyone and so if you are offended, it is not my intention. God bless all mommies out there and may the LOrd keep flowing his mommy graces upon you all.

I think you have me confussed with some one. As i have stated several times I am NOT a mother, so I guess I cant know anything on this subject huh? congrats on all your education in the field. Like I said I only have an associates degree, so really what can I POSSIBLY know huh? I was not judging anyone, I was defending one mom on this thread when another poster had insinuated that her mothering techiniques go against Gods design. In fact the only time i have even really disagreed with anyone was simply asking Ham to give some proof to her statements. which she has *yet *to do! and by the way have you read through every single post? If you had you would have seen that I neither condoned or condemed co sleeping. I stated at one point, i believe, that I would not co sleep, and stated it as an opinion. So can you tell me where I started judging others? please do because I have totally missed it somewhere!?

 

[mrs_abbott]

Sorry it isn’t clear to you. We know through experience and through instinct certain things about God’s design.

We know men and women fall in love and are called to live together. We know they are drawn to have children. We know they are drawn to love their children. A mother yearns for her child. A father defends his family against all others. A parent sacrifices his own desires for the good of his child. A man will go without food in order to feed his baby. A mother feeds her child at her breast. A father picks up his crying infant and soothes him as he walks. A toddler climbs onto his mother’s lap and holds her close. A crying child yearns to be held by his mother or father and comforted…Do I need to keep going here? There are thousands of acts, inclinations, and instincts that we don’t learn. They are written in our hearts and they are a part of God’s design for the human person. We act this way not by random occurence but because God designed us to act this way.

What does this have to do with the family bed?

 

[Ham1]

In fact the only time i have even really disagreed with anyone was simply asking Ham to give some proof to her statements. which she has *yet *to do!

First off, I’m not a woman.

Secondly, I believe I have adequately explained the logic behind my position. I have also posted an article that articulates far better than I ever could the position to which I subscribe. The authors quote numerous sources from Western thought as they develop their argument. Can you support your argument with philosophical and theological sources as well as the Mezzetti’s? If you’re waiting for the Church to come out with a definitive statement on every aspect of life, they won’t. But just because a topic is not specifically mentioned does not mean the subject can be arbitrarily decided in whatever fashion one prefers.

And to the poster who remarked at my apparent lack of charity, I stand corrected and apologize to any who may have taken offense to my remarks. I regard co-sleeping with babies like breastfeeding, it is the norm. But just because it is the norm doesn’t mean it can be practiced by everyone. There are always circumstances where things can’t work out and these are exceptions to the norm. Both breastfeeding and co-sleeping have been “the norm” in our culture for quite some time and it is only very recently that bottlefeeding and non-co-sleeping (once exceptions) have become commonplace.

 

[Ham1]

What does this have to do with the family bed?

I made reference that certain parenting methods were in accord with God’s designs of the human person. I was questioned as to how one could know God’s design and my is the answer to that question.

 

[TarAshly]

I still do not understand your logic and I am apparently not alone in that. Like I said, show me some CHURCH documentation before you say that a certain method is against what the Church teaches.

 

[MooCowSteph]

Hmm…I do not think anybody was condoning that approach…I know that I wasnt.
But then I may of missed a post where someone did mention that approach.

Karin, were you not the one who said you agreed with the Ezzo’s approach to parenting? I big part of their style is about CIO. Sorry if I am remembering incorrectly. Someone did say they agree with Ezzo, maybe TarAshley. In which case my original statement can be directed at her.

 

[TarAshly]

Karin, were you not the one who said you agreed with the Ezzo’s approach to parenting? I big part of their style is about CIO. Sorry if I am remembering incorrectly. Someone did say they agree with Ezzo.

That was me. and I dont agree with leaving a helpless infant in a room alone to cry. I agree with the theory of breaking a child of dependent sleeping once a child has reached a certain age. The marital bed should be respected as such. a very very young baby, a sick baby or a frightened child should be allowed to come to their mother, or sleep in a bassinet in her mothers room. I condone an open door policy. I just dont happen to agree with the “family bed”

also I never said anything against breast feeding. I happen to believe in breast feeding 100%

 

[Karin]

Karin, were you not the one who said you agreed with the Ezzo’s approach to parenting? I big part of their style is about CIO. Sorry if I am remembering incorrectly. Someone did say they agree with Ezzo, maybe TarAshley. In which case my original statement can be directed at her.

If Ezzo was the link that Ham1 provided than nope it was not me…CIO is that cry it out? Dont agree with that.

 

[tequilamac]

Our kids slept with us, we have two, every night for almost four years. We had the prettiest cribs and nursery sets, but who cared? Every once in a while, we’d make attempts at getting them in their own beds but they would have nothing to do with it. Then each one in their own time just one day didn’t want to sleep with us anymore because they were not babies, they said. Whatever. And suddenly, one night the bed was baby free. Periodically one or the other would wander in and try again but get to uncomfortable. I guess I never really worried about it one way or the other. The pediatrician told me that they would never leave our bed once they were in it. I’m glad he was wrong. My oldest is 6’2" and 255 lbs and his younger sister, 14, is 5’8.

 

[Princess_Abby]

Ham, I can see your logic. It makes sense to me. My husband and I often ask ourselves what Mary would do for baby Jesus if he was acting in the way that our daughter is behaving at any given time.

One instance we apply this happens to be the family bed. She is six months old and being separated from me for an entire night would never happen unless I allowed her to scream and scream and cry and cry. I do not believe that Mary would have allowed baby Jesus to suffer in that way, so we do not allow Sophia to suffer in that way. I do not believe she is developmentally ready for any sort of sleep training–even if it would make my life tremendously easier. Putting her into a bassinett only causes her to wake up and cry for me. She sleeps very well when cuddled against my torso and breast, with easy access to nursing as that is what comforts her.

I don’t personally ‘love’ co-sleeping. It’s not comfortable sometimes even with our king size bed because we are both so careful about how we sleep with her and I find myself only able to sleep on either side, with her tucked into me. That’s how she wants it anyway. I do it, however, because it’s what is best for my child and as a parent I am putting her needs ahead of my own comfort. I get plenty of snuggles during the day because Sophia is held more or less constantly. This, again, is not my own need to hold her but HER need to be soothed and feel safe and close to me.

We view these short term sacrifices as an investment in our baby. Her trust in us is absolute. A baby whose needs are repeatedly ignored might indeed stop crying but not because she feels safe and suddenly understands the concept of independence. She’ll cease crying because her parents finally convinced her they will not be responding to her only form of communication. I just fail to see how this is the most loving thing to do as a parent for my child.

That said, to those parents who don’t have need or use for a family bed, that’s completely fine with me. We all have different children with different needs and this post is not to convince or detract from anyone else’s choices. I’m simply sharing for the OP our logic behind the co-sleeping we do.

 

[mrs_abbott]

I made reference that certain parenting methods were in accord with God’s designs of the human person. I was questioned as to how one could know God’s design and my is the answer to that question.

How do you know what parenting methods are in accord with God’s design?
As long as you love and nurture a child, isn’t that “God’s design”? Does it matter how a person goes about doing that?

 

[tequilamac]

How do you know what God’s design is???

I don’t know about HAM but I kind of figured it out when I smelled the top of my baby’s head while cuddling on the couch after a bath. It’s one of those wonders of the world one just has to experience I guess.