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Valke2
Guest
I look forward to you teaching us something about Talmud.
- Status
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ralphinal
Guest
I did some googling on the riots in Nepal. I found three separate things. One was a violent riot that began as a protest of the killing of 12 hostages in Iraq. One was related to Maoist rebels and the last was connected with Democracy. Which of these three can show that the people of Nepal practice a violent faith?
There are lots of entries for Hindu riots getting violent in India, but almost all of them involve Muslims either as a target or as the instigating force of the violence. I did not see much about hindus targeting Christians.
Perhaps I should restate my question. Is Islam, by its writings and history, a faith that lends itself too easily to violence?
There are lots of entries for Hindu riots getting violent in India, but almost all of them involve Muslims either as a target or as the instigating force of the violence. I did not see much about hindus targeting Christians.
Perhaps I should restate my question. Is Islam, by its writings and history, a faith that lends itself too easily to violence?
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jerry_h_1700
Guest
It’s a fair question to ask, however it should be pointed out that, in the middle east regions, no matter what religion has been dominant, it was always a violent place. Their culture is very clan and tribal in nature, and whether the place was ruled by Carthage, Rome, Byzantium, Crusaders, Ottomans, or whether the people in any spot were followers of the dozens of beliefs that ruled the place, it has always been rocked by violence and war. Contrast this to Islam in Indonesia, where most the people there peacefully and willingly accepted Islam in the 1400’s (As the former Hindus in Java traded with the Muslim merchants from far away) One of the main reasons for the conversion to Islam in the Hindu territories was that it liberated people from the caste system, and also their Hindu kings were very corrupt at the time, wielding religion as a divine right.
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jerry_h_1700
Guest
- “We beg Thee, 0 Lord, inflict Thy wrath on the nations not believing in Thee. Take away, 0 Lord, all hope from them. Destroy all foes of Thy nation.” -Synagaga Judaica, p. 212. Minhagen, p. 23. Crach Chain, 480 Magah.
- “The teachings of the Talmud stand above all other laws. They are more important than the laws of Moses.” -Rabbi Issael, Rabbi Chasbar, et. al.
- “The decisions of the Talmud are words of the living God. Jehovah Himself asks the opinion of the earthly rabbis when there are difficult affairs in heaven.” -Rabbi Menechen Commentary on Fifth Book
- “Jehovah Himself studies the Talmud standing, he has such respect for that book.” -Tract Mechillo
- “It is more wicked to question the words of the rabbis than those of the Torah.” -Michna Sanhedryn 11:3
- “It is forbidden to disclose the secrets of the law. He who would do it would be as guilty as though he destroyed the whole world.” -Jektat Chadasz, 171, 3
- “Every goy who studies the Talmud and every Jew who helps him in it, ought to die.” -Sanhedryn, 59a, aboda Zora 8-6, Szagiga 13
- “To communicate anything to a goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the goyim knew what we teach about them they would kill us openly.” -Libbre David 37
- “If a Jew be called upon to explain any part of the rabbinic books, he ought to give only a false explanation. Who ever will violate this order shall be put to death.” -Libbre David 37
- “A Jew should and must make a false oath when the goyim asks if our books contain anything against them.” -Szaaloth-Utszabot, The Book of Jore Via 17
- “The Jews are human beings, but the nations of the world are not human beings but beasts…” -Saba Mecia 114, 6
- “When the Messiah comes every Jew will have 2800 slaves.” -Simeon Haddarsen, fol. 56-D
- “Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night.” -Midrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L
- "As soon as the King Messiah will declare himself, He will destroy Rome and make a wilderness of it. Thorns and weeds will grow in the Pope’s palace. Then He will start a merciless war on non-Jews and will overpower them. He will slay them in masses, kill their kings and lay waste the whole Roman land. He will say to the Jews: ‘I am the King Messiah for whom you have been waiting. Take the silver and gold from the goyim.’ " -Josiah 60, 6. Rabbi Abarbanel to Daniel 7, 13
- “A Gentile girl who is three years old can be violated.” -9boda Sarah 37a
- “A Jew may violate but not marry a non-Jewish girl.” -&ad. Shas. 2:2
- “A Jew may do to a non-Jewess what he can do. He may treat her as he treats a piece of meat.” -Hadarine, 20, B; Schulchan 9ruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 348
- “A Jew may misuse the non-Jewess in her state of unbelief.” -Maimonides, Jak. Chasaka 2:2
- “IF a goy kills a goy or a Jew he is responsible; but if a Jew kills a goy he is NOT responsible.” -Tosefta. 9boda Za,-a 8, 5
- “It is permitted to kill a Jewish denunciator everywhere. It is permitted to kill him even before he denounces.” -Schuichan Qruch, Choszen Hajpiszpat jog
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jerry_h_1700
Guest
- "Thou shalt not do injury to thy neighbor (Bible), but it is not said, ‘Thou shalt not do injury to a Goy.’ " -Mishna Sanhedryn 57
- "When you go to war do not go as the First, but as the last, so that you may return as the first. Five things has Kanaan recommended to his sons: ‘Love each other, love the robbery, hate your masters and never tell the truth.’ " -Pesachis F. 113B
- “A Jew is permitted to rape, cheat and perjure himself; but he must take care that he is not found out, so that Israel may not suffer.” -Schulchan Aruch, Jore Dia
- “A Jew may rob a goy - that is,.he may cheat him in a bill, if unlikely to be perceived by him.” -Schalchan Arach, Choszen Hamiszpat 348
- “If a goy wants a Jew to stand witness against a Jew in a Court of Law, and if the Jew could give fair evidence, he is forbidden to do it; but if a Jew wants a Jew to be a witness in a similar case against a goy, he may do it.” -Schalchan .9ruch, Choszen Hasiszpat 28, Art. 3 and 4
- “Those who do not confess the Torah and the Prophets must be killed. Who has the power to kill them, let them kill them openly with the sword. if not, let them use artifices, till they are done away with.” -Schulchan Qruch. Choszon Haviszpat 425.5
- "All property of other nations belongs to the Jewish nation, which, consequently, is entitled to seize upon it without any scruples. An orthodox Jew is not bound to observe principles of morality towards people of other tribes. He may act contrary to morality, if profitable to himself or to Jews in general’ " -Schalchan arach. Choszen Hasisxpat 348
- “Should a Jew inform the goyish authorities that another Jew has much money, and the other will suffer a loss through it, he must give him emuneration.” -Schalchan Oruch, Choszen Maipiszpat 388
- “How to interpret the word ‘robbery.’ A goy is forbidden to steal, rob, or take women slaves, etc., from a goy or from a Jew. But a Jew is NOT forbidden to do all this to a goy.” -Tosefta, Qbda Zara VIRZ, 5
- “On the house of the goy one looks as on the fold of cattle.” -Tosefta, Erabin VZZ, 1
- “All vows, oaths, promises, engagements, and swearing, which, beginning this very day or reconciliation till the next day of reconciliation, we intend to vow, promise, swear, and bind ourselves to fulfill, we repent of beforehand; let them be illegalized, acquitted, annihilated, abolished, valueless, unimportant. Our vows shall be no vows, and our oaths no oaths at all.” -Schulchan 9ruch, Edit. 1, 136. The Jewish Kol Nidre “All Vows” Oath has been set to a morbid Jewish music, and is often heard on the radio. It is sung as a chant at each Yom Kippur [Jewish New Year service September 17]
- “Everything a Jew needs for his church ritual no goy is permitted to manufacture, but only a Jew, because this must be manufactured by human bein gs and the Jew is not permitted to consider the goyim as human beings.” -Schulchan Oruch, Orach Chaiw 14, 20, 32, 33, 39. TaIDud Jebamoth 61
- “A Jewish mid-wife is not only permitted but she is compelled to help a Jewish mother on Saturday (Jewish Sabbath) and when so doing to do anything which otherwise would desecrate the Saturday. But it is forbidden to help a non-Jewish woman even if it should be possible to help her without desecrating the Saturday, because she is to be considered only as an animal.” -Schulchan gruch, Orach Chaim 330
- “At the time of the Cholhamoed the transaction of any kind of business is forbidden. But it is permitted to cheat a goy, because cheating of goyim at any time pleases the Lord.” -Chuichan Qruch, Orach ChaiD 539
- “The Jews are strictly Forbidden to cheat their brothers and it is considered cheating already if onesixth of the value has been taken away from him. Whoever has cheated his brother has to return it to him. Naturally all that only holds towards the Jew, to cheat a goy he is permitted and he is not permitted to return to him what he cheated him out of. Because the Bible says: ‘Thou shalt not cheat thy next brother,’ but the non-Jews are not our brethren, but as mentioned above, worse than dogs.” -aruch hoszen Haniszpat 227
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Valke2
Guest
Not the Talmud. Not sure what this is, other than it is displayed prominently by the National Socialist Movement nsm88.org/articles/talmudicteachings.html I just picked that one quote at random, as it was the first one you posted.
Not the Talmud. A commentary by a rabbi on the Talmud. I"m not sure of the context here as the Talmud is based on “the laws of Moses.”
A lot of the rest of your quotes are not from the Talmud, compeletly made up, or mistranslated. Where did you get these?
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Valke2
Guest
Reference is incorrect and the quote is a complete fabrication. (8-6) cannot exist in the Talmud. The pages are numbered 1a, 1b, etc. a being the first page and (b) being the other side of the page.). THere is in Sanhedrin 59a, an arguement between two rabbis,where the first makes the argument you posted,e xcept that he is referring to studying Torah, not Talmud. The second rabbi crushes the first’s argument, saying that a goy who studies Torah elevates himself to the status of High Priest. THe Second argument is the one adopted by Judaism.
Please keep in mind that I am pulling your quotes at random and then doing the research. IN this case, there is no such book called Libbre David in the Talmud (or anywhere else as far as I can determine), and the entire quote is completely made up. (Ahh… the joys of the internet).
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jerry_h_1700
Guest
That could very well be possible
Probably the same place people have been getting their Koran quotes
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Valke2
Guest
Could be. From what I’ve read of your posts, I don’t think you meant to intentionally post false quotes.
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Rodrigo_Bivar
Guest
Early medinan verse - and only about Muslim children fostered out to Jewish families - abrogated by surah 9.
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dparker
Guest
There is no challenge or controversy over the quotes I provided. Read it yourself…in fact, I urge everyone to go read the Qur’an for themselves. It’s a real eye-opener.
USC-MSA Muslim Texts
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swariffin
Guest
Dear Jerry,
It did not happen in what you think about the spread of Islam in Indonesia. Every elementary kids in Indonesia know it. The main reason of Islam’s spread was not that the caste system. In Buddhist kingdom there was no caste system. The spread of Islam in Indonesia because the central political system was far away inside the mainland, while Islam as brought by the traders spreaded in the coastal region (the areas where trading were). No control or weak control from the central government. Secondly, the incoming of the European traders who tended to monopolize and to cheat the locals, and supported by better weaponry, made the locals prefer to trade with the Islamic traders, and have more respect to them. Nothing to do with corrupt Hindu/Buddhist Kings.
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Rodrigo_Bivar
Guest
The initial spread of Islam to Indonesia was peaceful - via traders.
But then the Muslim Sultan of Demak did what Muslims always do - invade his neighbors and/or overlords to spread Islam. This led to the fall of the HIndu Majapahit empire. The Hindus had to flee for their lives to Java - the last Hindu stronghold in Indonesia.
The second phase of the spread of Islam in Indonesia was hardly peaceful.
But then the Muslim Sultan of Demak did what Muslims always do - invade his neighbors and/or overlords to spread Islam. This led to the fall of the HIndu Majapahit empire. The Hindus had to flee for their lives to Java - the last Hindu stronghold in Indonesia.
The second phase of the spread of Islam in Indonesia was hardly peaceful.
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swariffin
Guest
Dear Rodgrigo,
I really can’t refute you, because I believe it too. The problem is, your comment was not in our history book. Invations were not recorded. Oh dear…
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AgnosTheist
Guest
Hey you are the one who said “Perhaps a Vatican-style council or leadership”.
back this up please.
The Talmud is merely a collection of discussions between rabbis of opposing views. Its folly to compare this with a supposed revelation.
Dont take this seriously until we see muslims actually putting it into practice. Like Saudi Arabia, the heart of Islam.
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ralphinal
Guest
Now let me see if I can bring this to a point.
- Islam is a religion of Peace whose sacred text may include verses advocating violence but they do not mean what they seem to mean.
- People who use these verses to advocate violence are not really Muslims and are perverting the faith
- By and large, those willing to perform terrorist acts are poor and uneducated and are generally influenced by wealthy or educated leaders using them for their own gains.
- The majority of Muslims want to live in peace with other faiths and peoples and do not feel that the faith should be spread by the sword.
- Freedom of worship is encouraged in Islam.
- I cannot argue with this point. It is easy in any faith to pull verses out of context and force a new meaning upon them.
- This may be correct if point one is correct.
- This seems to be the case.
- This one is problematic. If it is correct, why are there not more Muslims trying to stamp out the terrorists? Why are so many Saudis, especially the royal family, willing to financially support these groups.
- Again, there is too much evidence against this. Muslim governements tend not to allow freedom of worship. This may be a perversion of the faith, but it is wide-spread and visible.
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AbeOman
Guest
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AbeOman
Guest
Holly Lord, so what on earth all these Hindu Indonesians are doing in Java today and where did they come from…? Have you been to Indonesia, if not why not pay a short visit…it will definitely help you not to make up stories and unfounded claims…and how much do you know the history of Islam anyway it’s clear to me you even don’t know much of the how christianity spread from middle east to europe and beyond…!
Did-to
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Valke2
Guest
If I am not allowed to build a synagouge where I live, then I am not allowed to practice my religion. To say that one can practice religion in their home as long as no one finds out about it is not a ringing endorsement of religious freedom. And that is just from a legal standpoint. from a practical standpoint, it is clear that Saudi Arabia does not tolerate the practice of other religions.
Moreover, the law in Saudi Arabia requires that all citizens be muslims. The public practice of non-muslim worship is prohibited. The right to gather privately to worship is legally allowed but often practically prohibited. And this “right” is not specifically set forth in the law there. It is a “policy”.
state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2006/71431.htm
There’s a lot of interesting things about religion to discuss. But it doesn’t do anyone any good to try to whitewash something as basic and verifiable as Saudi’s policy on religious freedom.
Moreover, the law in Saudi Arabia requires that all citizens be muslims. The public practice of non-muslim worship is prohibited. The right to gather privately to worship is legally allowed but often practically prohibited. And this “right” is not specifically set forth in the law there. It is a “policy”.
state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2006/71431.htm
There’s a lot of interesting things about religion to discuss. But it doesn’t do anyone any good to try to whitewash something as basic and verifiable as Saudi’s policy on religious freedom.
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AbeOman
Guest
I have already pointed out that Saudi’s are bit of over kill…perhaps they are wrong as Muslims since it does not make any sense that in other Muslim counteires one can see some old synagogues or new ones are built, just look at Manama, Bahrain which is just next door to the Suadi’s…!
Then, it’s not an Islamic practise but what Muslims do so let’s put the question to the Saudis…shall we…?
that is lot better then painting Islam as the problem…!.
Don’t you agree…?
- Status