W
woolycaterpillar
Guest
I never heard of them.
- Status
C
Crocus
Guest
Other NCW groups may be quite different bearing good spiritual fruit, however the particular group you belong to, as you describe it, behaves very cult-like. Control. Secrecy. Guilt. False persecution. Peer pressure to conform. Fear of loss of community. Do not be deceived by the few times the group makes you feel good; it is part of the trap of a cult. All cults have this in common.
Your NCW has no priestly oversight or guidance, putting it in a dangerous position relative to the Catholic Church.
Jesus gave us the Church where you will find freedom and peace (not fear and control). The “fruit” you are experiencing smells rotten.
Your NCW has no priestly oversight or guidance, putting it in a dangerous position relative to the Catholic Church.
Jesus gave us the Church where you will find freedom and peace (not fear and control). The “fruit” you are experiencing smells rotten.
Last edited:
C
curious_cath
Guest
Dear Crocus, I am crying bitterly right now, because every word you say rings so very much true! Your short list is very painful, each item hits me like a stone. How were my eyes shut that I could not see? I understand it now that all these things are immensely related. One or two things used to come up from time to time. But I have never thought that this all could be deliberate.
I am very emotional right now for another reason, as well. A dear sister in my group died yesterday. She had an illness but she did not fight it. She was told dying means meeting Jesus. She will be in a better place where there is no more suffering. I wanted to tell her don’t give up, go for it! Go for treatment, go for the new organ, go for healing! Every life on earth is precious in the eye of God! Now, I feel I betrayed her. I did not say ‘no’! By my silence I let her embrace death without resistance. Who am I? Am I a monster? Or am I a believer walking in grace on a path leading me to God? My Lord, forgive me that I am so weak!
I truly want to break free, although I feel on myself all the heaviness of the strings attached to my walking in the Way. How often have I desired to gather my sisters and brothers together as if under my wings to protect them, as Jesus told us. But they are not willing! I also feel I would abandon them by leaving. I could be free, well this is my hope at least, but what about them? They are under the spell of the catechists just as I am. Is it ethically agreeable to break free alone, leaving them behind in bondage?
Lord Jesus, give me strength to face my reality.
Last edited:
C
curious_cath
Guest
Oh, please! You must not mean what you say. Nobody wants to make a spectacle. Our silence does not always mean agreement. I believe, even now, that anything that is wrong can be corrected. One way or the other. Mosly, in a loving manner. Ultimately, by God!
Last edited:
C
Crocus
Guest
I only repeated the concerns you yourself stated. I think you know what you must do, though it be difficult. Have courage.
I am sorry for your loss at the death of your friend. As Catholics we pray that God receives her soul, and for peace for those who mourn.
C
curious_cath
Guest
Thank you, dear Crocus. Don’t think I would blame your list for anything. Beacuse all you wrote down are the facts of the Neocatechumenal Way! My experience sadly supports this view about my church group.
I cannot hide the facts anymore. It is I who finally has to come to terms with my own reality. Yes, I do need courage, because it is difficult. But all the feedback I have received in this topic point to the same direction. I appreciate everyone for what you have written. Now it is time for me to go into prayer and contemplation so that I can eventually do what my Lord also planned for me.
Last edited:
J
jack63
Guest
…was reading this thread again, I went to church, and there was Neocatechumenal Way flyers in the bulletin and a guest speaker (a priest) talking about it. I’d never heard of NCW before this week.
I guess you have to sit through several seminars initially and just “listen”. I think this would drive me bananas.
Are there priests or deacons involved in the regular NCW meetings? From the posts it seems like it primarily lay people who are involved.
I think I’d be way too independent for this group…
I guess you have to sit through several seminars initially and just “listen”. I think this would drive me bananas.
Are there priests or deacons involved in the regular NCW meetings? From the posts it seems like it primarily lay people who are involved.
I think I’d be way too independent for this group…
po18guy
Well-known member
Simple: Run for your life. No “yeah, buts”
*Explanation. We all fight the human ego - a consequence of the fall from grace. We fight our own first, and those of others secondarily. Intellects can agree or amiably disagree, but egos cannot. Egos flare, and that is what you are experiencing. You can argue with the intellect of others, but not with their ego. The same applies to them.
Having said that, the best way, according to the great Thomas á Kempis, is to question ourselves and our motives first. Only after considering our own faults and the consequences of them should we look elsewhere for the source of the trouble.
One thing I do note and it may be only a figure of speech - but you described it as “My group” Now it is good to take a degree of ownership of anything you belong to, but we must all remember that we are not the sole proprietors.
You may be an active person, an “improver” for lack of a better word. That quality must always be used with prudence around others, particularly others who have been members longer than you have. They may view it as a threat, even if it is ultimately for the good of the group.
“They” may very well be at fault here, but we are well advised to examine and clean our own homes first.
NOTE that my comments are not to be construed as an accusation or judgment - merely an observation and advice.
As to Thomas á Kempis, his classic book The Imitation of Christ is wonderful reading and very sound - if occasionally disturbing - advice.
*Explanation. We all fight the human ego - a consequence of the fall from grace. We fight our own first, and those of others secondarily. Intellects can agree or amiably disagree, but egos cannot. Egos flare, and that is what you are experiencing. You can argue with the intellect of others, but not with their ego. The same applies to them.
Having said that, the best way, according to the great Thomas á Kempis, is to question ourselves and our motives first. Only after considering our own faults and the consequences of them should we look elsewhere for the source of the trouble.
One thing I do note and it may be only a figure of speech - but you described it as “My group” Now it is good to take a degree of ownership of anything you belong to, but we must all remember that we are not the sole proprietors.
You may be an active person, an “improver” for lack of a better word. That quality must always be used with prudence around others, particularly others who have been members longer than you have. They may view it as a threat, even if it is ultimately for the good of the group.
“They” may very well be at fault here, but we are well advised to examine and clean our own homes first.
NOTE that my comments are not to be construed as an accusation or judgment - merely an observation and advice.
As to Thomas á Kempis, his classic book The Imitation of Christ is wonderful reading and very sound - if occasionally disturbing - advice.
Last edited:
D
debgab
Guest
We all make mistakes. I made a 5 year relationship mistake hoping for marriage. In the meantime I stooped pretty low and now I feel pretty much like spoiled fruit. Didn’t see it for what it was, didn’t want to see it for what it was, or just kept hoping for it to change.
We all need to stay close to the church and her teachings, but really no one gets out of here alive. And I mean that not only literally, but figurativly, that no one is above making mistakes and so whatever it is we are looking for or desiring, we should be sure it is in line with what God wants and desires from us first. Otherwise, only by His grace do we walk; but you already knew that. Just go to confession, and trust in God’s forgiveness and know that for every wrong thing that happens, he’s already making it right. Something good will come of it all. God Bless you and I’ll say a prayer for you.
Debbie
We all need to stay close to the church and her teachings, but really no one gets out of here alive. And I mean that not only literally, but figurativly, that no one is above making mistakes and so whatever it is we are looking for or desiring, we should be sure it is in line with what God wants and desires from us first. Otherwise, only by His grace do we walk; but you already knew that. Just go to confession, and trust in God’s forgiveness and know that for every wrong thing that happens, he’s already making it right. Something good will come of it all. God Bless you and I’ll say a prayer for you.
Debbie
D
Dlee
Guest
One question only: would you want your mother (or anyone else - children, spouse) subjected to this type of treatment in their desire to worship God?
J
joyfulandactive
Guest
It is very important to know that God created us with FREE WILL. A sign that something is of God is the freedom to come and go unless of course you make vows such as in marriage. In a ordinary Catholic parish you have complete freedom to attend or not.
A huge Red Flag is your loss of personal freedom. You feel too scared to follow your instincts because of how others may respond. This is not a fruit of the Holy Spirit. Anything that separates you from your parish community and discourages you from talking to your priest or bishop is not of God.
It sounds like you understandably have formed friendships that you miss if you try and stay away but this group seems to have you in a FOG: which stands for Fear, Obligation and Guilt. When you feel confused, unhappy and frightened like this it is because you are being emotionally manipulated, which is not Christian.
Remember, Jesus gives you free will. Any lack of freedom in an ordinary group such as this is a sign that it is not of God.
I would encourage you to confide in your parish priest and others you trust, who can offer you emotional support and friendship as you make the transition away from this group. Then find friends in regular groups in the parish. You will be in my prayers.
A huge Red Flag is your loss of personal freedom. You feel too scared to follow your instincts because of how others may respond. This is not a fruit of the Holy Spirit. Anything that separates you from your parish community and discourages you from talking to your priest or bishop is not of God.
It sounds like you understandably have formed friendships that you miss if you try and stay away but this group seems to have you in a FOG: which stands for Fear, Obligation and Guilt. When you feel confused, unhappy and frightened like this it is because you are being emotionally manipulated, which is not Christian.
Remember, Jesus gives you free will. Any lack of freedom in an ordinary group such as this is a sign that it is not of God.
I would encourage you to confide in your parish priest and others you trust, who can offer you emotional support and friendship as you make the transition away from this group. Then find friends in regular groups in the parish. You will be in my prayers.
C
curious_cath
Guest
It is called initial catechesis. During this time, we are told, the Word of God is proclaimed by the catechists, also called Kerygma written by Kiko Arguello, the founder of the Way. The Kerygma is inserted in us as a seed. During gestation this seed of faith grows and lo, by the end of the initial catechesis, the community is formed! I found this approach was sweet, especially that the catechists were tasked to check the growth of the “baby” in us. But later I thought this language was also strange. Some people had decades of decend faith and Catholic parish activity hehind them when they joined. It felt like your past as Catholic believer was completely overshadowed and overridden by the new rules in the group.
Priests called presbyters are regularly present at the meetings, well, theoretically. In practice, there is a shortage of presbyters who were formed in NCW seminaries, also called Redemptoris Mater. So mostly we have the presbyter for the Eucharist celebrations only, and sometimes, during weeked retreat.
I brought all my weaknesses into the group. We have learnt each other during the years, listening the frequent testimonies about our daily lives. We got support from each other, a sense that we are okay with our weaknesses and Jesus loves me no matter what.
Prudence is something very difficult to practice when we pour out our inner troubles so often. But the feeling that my sisters and brothers accept and approve me, even though I am sinner, is extremely liberating. You literally get freedom of heart from God through your community.
We do reconciliation in the group, when presbyters are listening our confession in different locations of the room while we are singing the songs of Kiko in repentance. It has a strong sense of community action. Sometimes we even hear some parts of the confessions of the brothers, but this does not matter as we celebrate God’s forgiveness and His unconditional love that is poured out to the worst of sinners who we are.
Last edited:
C
curious_cath
Guest
Many of us are in the group with family members. There are complete families who, as a whole, joined the Way. We have many kids of the Way, who were born while we have been already walking as a community.
I still struggle tremendously with this. Recently, the catechists might have told something to my brothers in the Way about me. My brothers do not show the sign of Peace to me anymore. They shook my hand which is shocking and deeply troubling for me, after many years of regularly receiving the sign of Peace from them. It just hit me this Saturday that there must be some kind of policy of sharing the kiss and now I am denied. I wept at home when the angry face of my catechist came up in my mind as yelling to my face in front of the whole community. His face was distorted in abhorrence of my behavior so much that ruined me. I am a worthless piece of irredeemable ego. I need to contemplate my sin causing so much pain to me in deep regret.
Lord Jesus, please, do not discard me from your fellowship of love. Without you we have no hope on earth and beyond.
Last edited:
J
jack63
Guest
Wow…thanks for the useful reply. I’ll pass on this one. I can certainly find better things to do during my weeknights.
There is value in being alone sometimes. Sometimes Jesus was very alone. Sometimes he sought that out too. I’ll pray for you!
There is value in being alone sometimes. Sometimes Jesus was very alone. Sometimes he sought that out too. I’ll pray for you!
Last edited:
po18guy
Well-known member
From what you have posted, it does not sound so much like a catechumenate as it does like a form of impromptu psychotherapy(?)
Nevertheless, if it has become a toxic group, the Titanic has struck the iceberg and it is time to bail. God knows your needs. He will provide for you.
Nevertheless, if it has become a toxic group, the Titanic has struck the iceberg and it is time to bail. God knows your needs. He will provide for you.
C
curious_cath
Guest
It is like an extended family. Kiko wrote the Kerygma that is inserted in us to save our soul by faith. Our faith is a child of the founder of the Way, well in a spiritual sense, that is why we owe obedience to him as to a father. He represents Christ for us through the catechists. That is why it is a sin to break away from the catechist’s instruction. Now, I see much better, that I am an orphan thrown into the wind without my extended family.
po18guy
Well-known member
Hmmm. Some questions that you need not answer here: Could you be over-reacting? Are you psychologically fragile? Insecure? Might you find better help one-on-one with counselor or therapist?
Christ did not leave us orphans! If you feel that way, something needs to be addressed. if I were you, I’d head straight for our Lord at adoration and lay your problems out before Him. There is nothing in this world like receiving care (and direction) from the Divine Physician.
Christ did not leave us orphans! If you feel that way, something needs to be addressed. if I were you, I’d head straight for our Lord at adoration and lay your problems out before Him. There is nothing in this world like receiving care (and direction) from the Divine Physician.
A
adgloriam
Guest
Ego isn’t a Christian word to begin with, it’s mostly used in “Eastern religion frameworks” and its use in the West is strongly associated with the history of psychology as being part of Sigmund Freud’s “structural model of the psyche”.
The capital sin that in Latin is called “Super” translated into English as “Pride” (“Super” having a strict inherent sense that “Pride” doesn’t exactly capture) would be the closest analogue to “Ego”. However, catholic thinkers always looked at man with a different approach via the “passions”, the “appetites” and “concupiscence” which I personally think makes for a much sounder and clearer approach.
(I hope you enjoyed the linguistic note @po18guy , I think “Ego” should be avoided because it is misleading and even more it isn’t catholic. You couldn’t fit that word/concept into a dictionary and I’m left wondering what an “encyclopedia of Ego” would look like…
)The OP described a tendency condemned by several Bishop conferences that is thoughtlessly remitting everything to the devil(Pretenatural). When indeed there are 3 enemies of the soul: the world(social) and the flesh(self) being prime suspects, and habitual guilty parties.
The said tendency was attributed, and denounced, as frequent (and dangerous) to several south American protestant denominations because their common reference to the devil’s (supernatural) temptation has the (intended or unintended) effect of contributing to separation of families by socially sanctioning an abstract escape goat that puts away with any concrete analyses of real objective problems.
God bless.
Last edited:
C
CompvergingLunatrix
Guest
I am wary of ANY group that goes straight to giving the devil credit for ANYthing, not to mention for what goes on among members of spiritual groups. Not to downplay Satan’s interference in our various efforts, but to my mind we should consider anything coming from the mouth of a fellow believer to be of the Lord first, then if that doesn’t stand up to the various tests (the consistent teachings of the Church, prayer, sacred scripture, etc.) consider it to be of a private, personal nature. (In other words, extend the benefit of the doubt rather than condemnation.) My two cents, for what they’re worth.
C
coopnann
Guest
I guess you have to sit through several seminars initially and just “listen”. I think this would drive me bananas.
Yes, you do just listen. There is only one of the talks where you break into groups and discuss. And some of the talks are loonnngggg. The celebration of the sacrament of Reconciliation I was looking forward to. But the part before it–oh my goodness–it took 2 hours before we actually started Confessions. “Catechists” talk, the singing, praying, and more and more and more. At the retreat at the end, when I decided not to return after the first night, my friend said there was a 2 hour talk and a 3 hour talk. Yes, you sit and listen.
Yes, you do just listen. There is only one of the talks where you break into groups and discuss. And some of the talks are loonnngggg. The celebration of the sacrament of Reconciliation I was looking forward to. But the part before it–oh my goodness–it took 2 hours before we actually started Confessions. “Catechists” talk, the singing, praying, and more and more and more. At the retreat at the end, when I decided not to return after the first night, my friend said there was a 2 hour talk and a 3 hour talk. Yes, you sit and listen.
- Status