Tension from my spiritual group

[YoungCatholicGuy]

Leave that group.

They are offering ‘spiritual direction’ that is not from God if they say constructive criticism comes from demons.

St Theresa of Avila and St Faustina said: ‘bad spiritual directors can mislead a soul dangerously.’

Instead: join a catholic charismatic prayer group (in such prayer groups it is normal for everyone to take equal turns sharing thoughts about Jesus/ scripture).

 

[CompvergingLunatrix]

Having now read this entire thread, my concern level for you and your parish is much greater than it was after reading only the OP. The attitudes you describe are very cult-like (and not in the Catholic sense of the word “cult”).

You describe significant departures from the sacred liturgy of the Church. If I knew which parish this was, I would check with the diocese to find out - in particular - if sharing testimony prior to Eucharist was authorized. I find it extremely difficult to believe that it has been.

On a personal note, I have been in the shoes of one whose entire spiritual walk has been tossed heels over head, and I know what a weak feeling that can bring on. Rest assured that all you must do is continue to call on the Lord, on the good counsel of God-fearing men and women (not people who will jump to condemn you, rather those who would fear to do so), and on the lessons of the Word of God. He will keep you safe and bring you out strong.

As for your sister in Christ whom you recently lost… ultimately the way in which we individually meet the Lord rests between each of us and Him. Corporately, we know exactly how to approach Him, but there is an individual walk as well. Figuratively speaking, each of us has (at least part of) one foot in Heaven and (at least part of) one outside it. You sound like a fighter, so I am confident you are finding the Way of our Lord, with or without the NCW - which at best is only a part of His Way. Your beloved friend sounds more like someone who rested in her faith - which is just as admirable, if you ask me.

In any case, you may count on my prayers for you and your group and parish.

 

[coopnann]

I still cannot figure out how to quote in a reply! Jack63 that was you I quoted at the top of my above post! :crazy_face:

Curious Cath–everything you say you will find support in others who have said the same thing on the internet. All that you say is unfortunately what I found when I searched when things didn’t seem right as I took my daughter to these “talks” as a requirement for her Confirmation formation. Which the content of the talks and the language used by the “catechist” is too much and, I feel, inappropriate at that age anyway.

I used to look around me during some of the talks and wonder if anyone else thought some of it was crazy or off. But, it turns out, some people were really drawn in. Unfortunately.
NCW creates a dependence and obedience in each person in the group so that you are made to feel your salvation will be lost if you leave “the Way”. The way things are worded in their talks–condescending and guilt, the way you confess your weaknesses to your group and your “catechists” berating you, celebrating Mass with your group (no longer with the parish), the way money is coerced to give to the NCW, the crazy amount of time members are required to give apart from their children or other family members not part of the “Way” (I could not understand why some of the presenters/catechists did it), there is more, but please leave it behind.

You do not owe anyone an explanation when you do not return.

Yesterday I picked up my daughter at her Confirmation class and saw many people dressed up and having some sort of group–then I saw the big Kiko icon and felt so upset. I guess this is the beginning of a new group that will now celebrate on their own, just like the other group in our parish.

 

[jack63]

I still cannot figure out how to quote in a reply! Jack63 that was you I quoted at the top of my above post! :crazy_face:

You can use

followed by

on the same line. Also If I highlight the text, a “quote” a quote box right above the highlighted text appears, and pressing that will bring me to a new reply.

I used to look around me during some of the talks and wonder if anyone else thought some of it was crazy or off.

Sometimes I felt that way often during life. Not during mass though…it would be sad to feel this way during mass or at a church group.

 

[joyfulandactive]

Unfortunately confessing sins publicly and frequently and encouraging you all to see yourselves as miserable sinners without emphasizing the freedom of forgiveness, mercy and love are classic forms of cult control. It is also totally inappropriate and probably against church law to be able to hear someone’s private confession to a priest. It’s one thing if it happened accidentally, but quite another if nothing is done to secure the seal of confession.

I’m afraid they very much seem to be “a church within a church”. The teachings of your leaders and “catechists” should not take priority over standard church teaching such as: homilies, scripture and the catechism. Anyone shouting in your face who is putting themselves in a position of leadership in the church should be reported to your priest and bishop. Much of what you describe is very concerning and dangerous for vulnerable individuals. It could eventually alienate them from the church and Christianity forever if that kind of behavior is allowed to go unchecked.

Please sit down and write down all the behaviours and teaching that has been of concern to you since you joined the group. Take this with you when you meet a priest who is not part of this group who you trust.

 

[po18guy]

Ego isn’t a Christian word to begin with, it’s mostly used in “Eastern religion frameworks” and its use in the West is strongly associated with the history of psychology as being part of Sigmund Freud’s “structural model of the psyche”.

I use it because Servant of God Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen used it. Kindly take up the matter with him!

 

[YoungCatholicGuy]

Gosh that church sounds weird…

Leave it and don’t return!

 

[adgloriam]

adgloriam:

Ego isn’t a Christian word to begin with, it’s mostly used in “Eastern religion frameworks” and its use in the West is strongly associated with the history of psychology as being part of Sigmund Freud’s “structural model of the psyche”.

I use it because Servant of God Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen used it. Kindly take up the matter with him!

Why did Servant of God Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen use the word “Ego”:

Born May 8, 1895.
Ordained September 20, 1919
PhD Leuven 1923.

His television show ran from 1951-1957 and 1961 to 1968.

So you see @po18guy Freudian theory was the “state-of-the-art” science available during the formative years of Fulton Sheen.

Also during the 50’s and 60’s (regarding the fields of psychiatry and psychology, and their practices) we know what happened in hospices all around the world, and just one example would be the widespread use of lobotomies and other such methods.

So, in the 2000’s I believe it wise for a catholic to use a pondered historical critical sense (and the use of the word “Ego” isn’t advisable, today, the same way the USCCB pronounced itself against the use of the “Enneagram” just 2 decades ago in face of its use by priests and its inclusion -and approval- in PhD thesis written in the US during the 80’s).

 

[po18guy]

You are technical while I am practical. For traditionalists, it is Latin…

 

[pulchraesamicamea]

I would definitely leave this group.
I’m praying for you!

 

[poche]

I think that this group may be good for many people but it is not for everybody. Both St Francis and St Dominic were contemporaries. At one time they met to see whether they could merge both of their movements. However after meeting it was determined that it would be better if they went their separate ways. They remained friends and the Dominicans and the Franciscans are friends but they each have a different charism. This could be the same for this particular movement. I think it is unhelpful for the leadership to suddenly call someone under the influence of the devil if they don’t see everything from the same perspective of that particular leadership.

 

[adgloriam]

For traditionalists, it is Latin…

In the entire Vulgata there won’t be a single use of “Ego” with the semantics you connoted to the term, which is a personal pronoun or simply “self”.

And no, morphology doesn’t attribute to the root “Ego” the normally depreciative semantics of its derivatives, composites, or declensions, like ego-ism, ego-maniac, ego-tistic.

Exodus III:14. “ego sum qui sum”

“et in arcadia ego”

 

[curious_cath]

Could you be over-reacting?

Yes, I often feel guilt of being too sensitive. I ponder on this over and over again. Perhaps I just try to hide, unconsciously, my tendency for disobedience. I am somewhat familar with Freudian concepts and I often suspect my own consciousness. We were told that disobedience to our catechists would lead to exclusion. Although he is not an impeccable person, we can thank him for charism. He was given authority by the church, so it must be valid. We owe odebience, unless he is directly contradicting Jesus’ teaching from the Gospels.

if I were you, I’d head straight for our Lord at adoration and lay your problems out before Him.

I used to go to adoration before I joined the Neocatechumenal Way. I miss that peace and serenity that takes over me in that little chapel. But we became busy in the Way and we don’t do adoration there. We don’t pray the Rosary either as we were told one has to walk in the Way 15-20 years before one can properly pray the Rosary.

The OP described a tendency condemned by several Bishop conferences that is thoughtlessly remitting everything to the devil( Pretenatural ). When indeed there are 3 enemies of the soul: the world ( social ) and the flesh ( self ) being prime suspects , and habitual guilty parties .

Oh, this is reassuring for me to know.

consider anything coming from the mouth of a fellow believer to be of the Lord first

I wish it would be normal in my group. Our catechist frequently talks about what the devil wants us to do. I think he has figured out Satan already and knows all the time how Satan ensnarls me. He condemns us when we act on first impulse because first impulse usually comes from the devil. We have to learn to think by the mind of Satan so that we can outplay him.

join a catholic charismatic prayer group (in such prayer groups it is normal for everyone to take equal turns sharing thoughts about Jesus/ scripture)

That sounds awesome. I used to watch charismatic Pentecostals on tv, but that is kinda overdone. Too much charism of questionable origin. I know it is different in a Catholic charism.

 

[curious_cath]

You describe significant departures from the sacred liturgy of the Church.

I think Pope Benedict stamped approval on all this. He was and still is a big supporter of Catholic communities for lay people.

Your beloved friend sounds more like someone who rested in her faith - which is just as admirable, if you ask me.

I admired her for her courage. But come on, she was barely over 40! She still should be around. Now my group wants to leave me out of her funeral. We used to go and sing Kiko’s songs before funeral. It could be so refreshing to hear guitar, drums and songs in a cemetery. A funeral is a celebration of one’s admittance to heaven. I think this is a nice fruit of NCW.

It is also totally inappropriate and probably against church law to be able to hear someone’s private confession to a priest.

We usually sing Kiko’s songs during reconciliation service, while 3 or 4 prists are hearing confession at different spots of the room. You cannot hear what is said in confession, only some words without context when a song ends, before we start the next song. Communion is private but also communal in this sense.

I think that this group may be good for many people but it is not for everybody.

I feel I still might be bound by the devil that prevents me from receiving the fruits. I contemplated the Sermon on the Mount and I found out that my catechist wants me to hunger and thirst the truth who is Jesus. He is actually very smart because he sees my resistance to grace. I have to reevaluate my relation to my catechist. He is right that the important thing to truly hunger and thirst the truth what he says.

 

[bassmansteiny]

@curious_cath
Not sure if you’ve figured out what you are going to do yet because I have not read this entire thread. But I agree with everyone that says walk away. Go to a different Catholic Church if you have to. There are many other Catholic groups you can join for your fellowship. Many Catholic Churches have Bible Studies and different types of activities that you can get involved in other than this group. Also as other have said, talk to a Priest, if you have to go to another parish. Explain what is going on to him. This group should not make you feel the way you are. I’ve never actually heard of a Catholic small group like this.

I wanted fellowship and community since I am a single guy and my friends do not live anywhere near me. I joined the Knights Of Columbus, and it is the best thing I’ve ever done!

 

[AlmaRedemptorisMater]

You dont seem to be taking any advice here seriously. In all honesty, this thread sounds fairly trollish in nature. I’ll pray for you.

 

[curious_cath]

NCW creates a dependence and obedience in each person in the group so that you are made to feel your salvation will be lost if you leave “the Way”. The way things are worded in their talks–condescending and guilt, the way you confess your weaknesses to your group and your “catechists” berating you, celebrating Mass with your group (no longer with the parish), the way money is coerced to give to the NCW, the crazy amount of time members are required to give apart from their children or other family members not part of the “Way”

I did not want to talk about money because money is devil. It is a fruit of the Way that we are able to detach from monetary bondage. We despise money and throw it into trash bags duing collection time in my community. This is so symbolic that money is nothing else but trash!

Our catechist showed us how to exorcise money. In a special arrangement we bring some singnificant value on the plate and yell to the devil, I know you Satan, I know your snarls, I know how stupid you are, now you go away and leave me!!! The devil expressed in monetary value stays of the plate and we go free. It is that simple!

I have seen people literally shaking in exultation when the devil attachmen to ugly bank notes leaves them. It is so liberating that we cannot go without praising God for His great goodness and singing Alleluia. Some people even throw in golden rings or titles for cars, small weekend houses or such. I gave up an expensive camera and made donation to the seminary. It is the amazing act of the Spirit showing the enormous power of God. I don’t think it is easy to walk away from such a grace.

 

[bassmansteiny]

I will be praying for you!! God Bless you.

 

[curious_cath]

I joined the Knights Of Columbus, and it is the best thing I’ve ever done!

I give thanks to God that You have found a good one!

 

[curious_cath]

Dear Alma, you haven’t made any comment under this post before. Why do you call me out then? I think you have made a premature judgment on me.

Your Redemptoris Mater affiliation tells it all where are you coming from and why are you attacking me. You are with a worldwide network of Catholic Seminaries under NCW management. Let me tell you we have had several superb presbyters coming from Redemptoris Mater who enlivened our community life here. Unfortunately, they have left us on mission and we see a shortage of NCW-formed presbyters right now. This might be at the root of my conflict with the catechist team, because they are operating now without presbyterial assistance.