Terrible First 3 months of Marriage

[vern_humphrey]

iserve:

Vern- This situation sounds like a prelude to domestic violence, and this man is showing *every *signal of it. No one has suggested that she run out and get a divorce, but surely, she is entitled to remover herself from the battle zone in order to clear her head and think.

Clearing her head and thinking is a good idea. But so far, all I’ve seen is advice to divorce and seek an annulment.

Seeking professional help is nice, too – but she’s already said she can’t afford it. And in the end, my experience is that the parties in a marriage must solve their own problems – on one on the outside, no matter how many degrees – has a magic wand.

iserve:

His reaction to this could help her decide her next move. In the meantime, she will be able to avoid a lifetime of unhappiness and most of all *children whom she would risk subjecting to the same treatment. *Neither Christ, nor the Church, asks anyone to subject themselves to being abused within the contex of marriage, nor to willingly bring children into a situation where they might be mistreated or misled into a life of sin. Come on- didn’t you see the unhappiness in that other post from the woman whose marriage has been like a *sentance *instead of a partnership.

I see unhappiness. I also see participation in a pattern of mutual confrontation.

I see an unwillingness by anyone to answer the points I laid out:

1. What is your objective?
2. Is your present course of action achieving that objective?
3. Remember that you can only control you own behavior.

iserve:

PS I would like to jear your answer if the shoe was on the other foot and your wife had shamed you mercilessly for all the years of your marriage.

What does “shamed you mercilessly” mean? And how would that justify me in pressing all her buttons and fighting about it?

 

[wcknight]

It takes TWO to make a marriage work. Each must be willing to work with the other. But each has to recognize that everyone has a desire to control their own lives to some extent. Initially those bounds of control may be quite rigid as no one wants to be dominated by anyone else.

It takes time to develop the ability to compromise, and 3 month is way too soon to start laying down the law and demanding that a spouse change their life or values to fit in ours.

Breaking down a door may seem like some monstrous act of violence, but believe me it is not. I too broke open a door during the first year of marriage (and nearly broke my shoulder in the process). When a spouse locks another out, all sorts of things goes through the other’s mind. For me not only did I want to get in to discuss and resolve the problems, but I was sincerely afraid that my wife might hurt herself.

How many times do people hear about some distraught spouse locking themselve in and attempting suicide ? To my way of thinking I felt better in breaking open a door rather than risk something worse. Personally I think no spouse should ever lock another out, EXCEPT if they really feel physically threatened or had been physically abused in the past. In the latter case, authorities should be called or the spouse should leave as soon as possible.

My thing is you have to talk things out. If you need to take a time out to let things cool down, fine sleep in another room and talk about it later. Most advise never to go to bed angry. To me that is a lot easier said than done. We try to resolve issues before bedtime, but sometimes, no solution is readily apparent or discussions may become so heated that it is far better to let things cool down.

Addition to porn and self gratification can be overcome. It’s estimated that 90% of young males have the latter problem, while only 10 to 20 % of females do. That discrepancy in itself may be a big reason why some wives have a hard time understanding their husbands. It takes time and an understanding wife to handle this. To demand a change instantly is not realistic and not fair. People do not change overnight. It is possible but not likely.

For folks to stay married, there has be love to make it work. If you love your husband you will give him the time, understanding, and support to let him resolve his addiction. IF he really loves you, he will be willing to do whatever it takes to make you happy, including admitting that he has a problem and needs to resolve it.

Half the battle is admitting that what he is doing is wrong. He hasn’t gotten to that point yet. He can only get that message with a lot of convincing. Demands, arguments, ultimatums are not helping. His motivation has to come from concern and love for you. IF he only is feeling anger, resentment or harassment from you, it will be very difficult if not impossible for him to change.

I have to disagree with the folks who are so eager to cut and run. Unless the spouse is phyically abusive or is truly wicked I can not see such willingness to give up so easily.

Hopefully you had some fair amount of time of engagement and courtship before marriage to get to know your spouse. Sex is only one aspect of marriage, and although a major part of marriage initially, down the road (maybe way down the road), it does become a fairly minor part.

There had to be many other things that led you to believe that your spouse was the right choice.

Be the loving, understanding spouse and appoach the subject with much more subtlety and tact. Everyone wants to please their mate. They want their approval and support. Tell him how happy it would make you, if you could better control or eliminate the porn. Explain to him that should you ever have children, it would be very offensive for them (not to mention downright embarasssing to him and you) to ever discover his porn.

In all likelihood, your spouse is also troubled by all the arguments and disruptions in your marriage. No one wants to confront their spouse everyday. You both need periods of more stable, happier moments. Approach the subject with much less frequency. Don’t avoid the subject altogether, but make a real effort to make things less confrontational.

Be determined to make your marriage work, and take positive steps towards that, and try to foster that atitude in your husband as well. He needs to be as committed to stay together as you are.

 

[vern_humphrey]

wcknight:

Be determined to make your marriage work, and take positive steps towards that, and try to foster that atitude in your husband as well. He needs to be as committed to stay together as you are.

Absolutely.

One of the things that bothers me about this is that we have heard only one side of the story, and have decided all the wrong is on the side we haven’t heard.

My daughter tells about a fight she had with her husband, and was suddenly shocked when her 2-year old grabbed her saying, “No, Mommy! No!” She said that until that point, she thought she was in the right.

 

[felra]

vern humphrey:

Absolutely.

One of the things that bothers me about this is that we have heard only one side of the story, and have decided all the wrong is on the side we haven’t heard.

My daughter tells about a fight she had with her husband, and was suddenly shocked when her 2-year old grabbed her saying, “No, Mommy! No!” She said that until that point, she thought she was in the right.

Was the fight over her husband’s refusal to give up his self-indulging secretive habit (addiction) of viewing pornography and self-abuse?

 

[vern_humphrey]

felra:

Was the fight over her husband’s refusal to give up his self-indulging secretive habit (addiction) of viewing pornography and self-abuse?

We don’t really know, do we?

We know the OP mentions that in the first post, but whether that is the triggering incident or not, we can’t tell.

Of course, this is a case where the accusation is so serious that no defense can be allowed – not even innocence.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon9.gif

 

[wcknight]

vern humphrey:

Absolutely.

One of the things that bothers me about this is that we have heard only one side of the story, and have decided all the wrong is on the side we haven’t heard.

My daughter tells about a fight she had with her husband, and was suddenly shocked when her 2-year old grabbed her saying, “No, Mommy! No!” She said that until that point, she thought she was in the right.

We have far too many divorces and annullments already, and something these responses shows, is just how quickly and how easily folks are willing to throw up their hands and run at the first indications of trouble.

3 month into a marriage is miniscule. Jesus tells us that our marriage vows are sacred, one breaks these vows at their own peril. Not only does this mean that we are to be faithful to our spouse but we need to be committed to our marriage. We need to want to stay married at all costs.

While addiction to porn and sex is quite a problem it is not or should not be insurmountable. What keeps a marriage together is love and mutial respect. While there are indications of lack of respect with the porn issue, there is also indication that there is a lack of understanding and lack of patience or at least a lack of tack or sublety on both parties.

Being confronted by one’s sexual habits even by a spouse or especially by a spouse can be quite embarassing and intimidating. No one wants to be told that they have a serious problem. No one wants to be locked out, and no one wants to live in a home where arguments and fights are the order of the day.

The marriage has been made unbearable probably by both sides. For any marriage to work, there must be an attitude of mutual love and understanding. It is difficult to achieve with any couple and to do so in 3 months, it is impossible.

Some may feel that locking a spouse out may be justified given the porn and sexual misconduct. I think it was an awful thing to do, and probably greatly increased the problem. It certainly did not foster an attitude of mutual respect and understanding.

I’ve been locked out and believe me, I did not feel more mutual love and understanding. More likely it was humiliating, aggravating, upsetting, frustrating, and a few more choice explectives deleted. You do not want to have those feelings ever again, and at the time, you wonder seriously IF the marrige is really worth getting such a put down.

Those of you looking for a divorce, locking your spouse out is a great way to make a giant step in that direction. Having it done to me, I would never do it to my spouse.

 

[vern_humphrey]

wcknight:

Being confronted by one’s sexual habits even by a spouse or especially by a spouse can be quite embarassing and intimidating. No one wants to be told that they have a serious problem. No one wants to be locked out, and no one wants to live in a home where arguments and fights are the order of the day.

The marriage has been made unbearable probably by both sides. For any marriage to work, there must be an attitude of mutual love and understanding. It is difficult to achieve with any couple and to do so in 3 months, it is impossible.

Absolutely. As I said, there are three key points:

1. What is your objective?

1. Is your present course of action achieving that objective?

1. Remember that you can only control you own behavior.

If the answer to point one is “To have a happy marriage,” and the answer to point 2 is “No” (as it obviously is), then the way out is to refer to point 3 – control your own behavior and you will be able to influence your spouse’s behavior.

And for proof, I offer this – the OP through her behavior managed to influence her spouse’s behavior to the point where he kicked down the door. She has a powerful tool, but needs to learn to use it wisely.

 

[felra]

vern humphrey:

Absolutely. As I said, there are three key points:

If the answer to point one is “To have a happy marriage,” and the answer to point 2 is “No” (as it obviously is), then the way out is to refer to point 3 – control your own behavior and you will be able to influence your spouse’s behavior.

And for proof, I offer this – the OP through her behavior managed to influence her spouse’s behavior to the point where he kicked down the door. She has a powerful tool, but needs to learn to use it wisely.

I have to commend you in your persistence in dancing around the elephant in the room that got exposed in this marriage as the #1, primary, predominat problem based on the OP’s short synopsis. And yes, let’s keep blaming and putting the ownness on the OP for provoking and causing her spouse’s unacceptable behavior. :nope:

 

[stbruno]

Consider checking out this wonderful organization called Retrouvaille.org We do marriage prep with couples and highly recommend it’s value. Also it is part of what the Catholic church offers to help troubled marriages. More people should learn of it. There are also links to other areas of the church to support you in this area of your marriage. You need not procrastinate. Keep praying!

The word Retrouvaille, simply means ‘rediscovery’. The program offers the chance to rediscover yourself, your spouse, and a loving relationship in your marriage. 10’s of 1000’s headed for divorce have successfully saved their marriages by attending. Retrouvaille is a not spiritual retreat, not a sensitivity group, not a seminar, not a social gathering. We invite you to read some of the success stories and to learn more about the Retrouvaille program. RETROUVAILLE IS NOT COUNSELING

Many Judges, Lawyers, and Counselors send couples to Retrouvaille prior to rendering final decisions, as a prerequisite to filing for divorce and as a prerequisite to counseling. They have learned that the tools of communication taught in the Retrouvaille program are what the couples needed more than a divorce, legal advice, or counseling.

RETROUVAILLE HELP IS AVAILABLE

If your marriage needs re-focusing, please call or email us. Help is available.

If you and your spouse want your marriage to work and are willing to put in your best effort - then we invite you, even urge you, to attend. If you are thinking of separation or divorce or you are already separated, but want to try again then we believe Retrouvaille can help. If you know of a couple who might need help, please tell them about Retrouvaille and encourage them to contact us. They are probably desperately looking for help and don’t know where to turn to find it. Although Retrouvaille is a Catholic program, we welcome couples of other faith expressions. However, as it is designed to help marriages, we do not recommend it to those who are unmarried and have chosen to ‘live together’.

ABOUT THE RETROUVAILLE PROGRAM

Retrouvaille is a live-in weekend and post weekend program for married couples. The emphasis is on a technique of communication between a husband and wife. During the weekend, a series of in-depth presentations are given to you and other couples like yourselves. Each presentation, given by one of three married couples and a priest, focuses on a specific area of a marriage relationship. After each presentation, you will have a chance to reflect on it by yourself, then discuss it with your spouse in complete privacy. The weekend is not a spiritual retreat, not a sensitivity group, not a seminar, nor is it a social gathering. You will, however be encouraged, to put the past behind you and start ‘rediscovering’ one another again. The weekend is not a ‘miracle cure’, therefore, post-weekend sessions have been designed to continue the marriage renewal begun on the weekend. These follow-ups review earlier concepts in greater depth, present new ones and help you apply these concepts to your own marriage. **HOW CAN YOU GET MORE INFORMATION? **
If you wish to remain anonymous when calling for more information, you need not identify yourself.
If you then wish to register on a program, please be assured that all names are kept in strictest confidence. For U.S.A. contacts, please call 800-470-2230
or visit our listed Program Dates

 

[Karin]

felra:

I have to commend you in your persistence in dancing around the elephant in the room that got exposed in this marriage as the #1, primary, predominat problem based on the OP’s short synopsis. And yes, let’s keep blaming and putting the ownness on the OP for provoking and causing her spouse’s unacceptable behavior. :nope:

I think the point trying to be made is that if her current behaviour is not helping to solve the problem … then perhaps change the tact and the hubby may be more repsonive to solving the problem. I do not think anyone is saying that she is the cause for all of the problems as she is not!

 

[vern_humphrey]

felra:

I have to commend you in your persistence in dancing around the elephant in the room that got exposed in this marriage as the #1, primary, predominat problem based on the OP’s short synopsis. And yes, let’s keep blaming and putting the ownness on the OP for provoking and causing her spouse’s unacceptable behavior. :nope:

Absolutely! Let’s condemn people without even hearing their side of the story, destroy a marriage, and declare things like Marriage Vows to be Politically Uncorrect.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Karin:

I think the point trying to be made is that if her current behaviour is not helping to solve the problem … then perhaps change the tact and the hubby may be more repsonive to solving the problem. I do not think anyone is saying that she is the cause for all of the problems as she is not!

You’re absolutely right!

What she’s doing now isn’t working, and she needs to change her strategy.

 

[Karin]

vern humphrey:

You’re absolutely right!

What she’s doing now isn’t working, and she needs to change her strategy.

sometimes shorter is easier …

 

[felra]

vern humphrey:

Absolutely! Let’s condemn people without even hearing their side of the story, destroy a marriage, and declare things like Marriage Vows to be Politically Uncorrect.

“To be both frank and charitable, gentlemen, if you believe that the sins of lust or masturbation or pornography are not serious, then you are holding to your own opinion, an opinion shared neither by Our Lord nor by His Holy Church, of which you are a member. “Everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” (Mt 5:28) “Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.” (*Catechism *2395) The words “gravely contrary” refer to “grave matter” (cf. CCC 1857, 1858), that which constitutes the basis of mortal sin. Surely you are not ready to risk your salvation and your marriage because, in your opinion, these things are “no big deal”? I beg you to recall the words you say at the end of the Creed—“We believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.” These words mean that you trust that the Church speaks to you with the love and authority of Jesus Christ in matters relating to doctrine, morality, and the Sacraments, i.e. in matters touching your eternal salvation…your eternal salvation.”

Excerpt from article: “Are You Poisoning Your Marriage?” By Fr. Paul Check

http://www.familylifecenter.net/docs/Are_You_Poisoning_Your_Marriage.doc

 

[Karin]

“To be both frank and charitable, gentlemen, if you believe that the sins of lust or masturbation or pornography are not serious, then you are holding to your own opinion, an opinion shared neither by Our Lord nor by His Holy Church, of which you are a member. “Everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” (Mt 5:28) “Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.” (*Catechism *2395) The words “gravely contrary” refer to “grave matter” (cf. CCC 1857, 1858), that which constitutes the basis of mortal sin. Surely you are not ready to risk your salvation and your marriage because, in your opinion, these things are “no big deal”? I beg you to recall the words you say at the end of the Creed—“We believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.” These words mean that you trust that the Church speaks to you with the love and authority of Jesus Christ in matters relating to doctrine, morality, and the Sacraments, i.e. in matters touching your eternal salvation…your eternal salvation.”

Excerpt from article: “Are You Poisoning Your Marriage?” By Fr. Paul Check

[familylifecenter.net/docs/Are_You_Poisoning_Your_Marriage.doc](http://www.familylifecenter.net/docs/Are_You_Poisoning_Your_Marriage.doc)

I dont think anyone has said these things are not serious…but the OP needs to see that her actions in trying to make her hubby understand this is not working…try a different tact!

 

[vern_humphrey]

“To be both frank and charitable, gentlemen, if you believe that the sins of lust or masturbation or pornography are not serious, then you are holding to your own opinion, an opinion shared neither by Our Lord nor by His Holy Church, of which you are a member.

They are as serious as adultery. And remember what Christ said about the woman caught in adultery – “Judge not, lest you be judged.”

We have judged this marriage based on a couple of paragraphs posted on the internet – without hearing a word from the other side. And in the process, some of us have advised the OP to trash her marriage.

If this marriage is to be saved, the only person who can do it is the OP, and since her current strategy isn’t working, she needs to change strategies.

 

[wcknight]

I agree 100% that porn and self gratification are serious problems. However IF every new wife decides to cut and run after 3 months after finding their husband with these faults, there will not be many marriages that last beyond a few months.

I don’t know what the porn numbers are, but as mentioned before 90 % of males have problems with the latter. The vast majority of folks overcome their immaturity and get their sex drive under control. To give up after 3 months is irresponsible and a huge over reaction.

To be understanding and supportive of a spouse with a problem does not underplay or ignore the seriousness of the problem. Breaking habits or addictions is a long term project. Making a marriage work is a long term, life long project.

It is far easier and more likely to make effective changes in a more supportive positive relationship. IF a combative state is most prevalent, very little will be accomplished. People do not change their ways if they are defensive or feel the other party is judgemental, nagging or critical.

The old adage, you attract more bees with sugar than you do with vinegar, holds true. Spouses do not repond in a positive manner if the attitude is controlling or combative.

No one is about to agree with someone who is yelling or screaming at them. Even if the criticisms are 100% right the inclination is to back into a shell and be defensive.

Fighting with the other spouse obviously has not worked and has made the situation unbearable for both sides. There needs to be changes in attitudes on BOTH sides. You may be 110% right but clubbing your spouse over the head with your piety is not going to change their behavior.

 

[SeminoleGirl22]

my gosh, i come back 22 hours later, and there are 55 replies?

to answer some questions: the violence issue is moot. my husband is passive-aggressive. you can talk to him, ask him things, tell him things, and he will just silently do what he pleases right after he tells you “OK”. he NEVER yells, screams ect. he just talks calmly and rationally. it is me who yells and cries, but only after time and time and time of asking him. or he can just pick apart my arguments and point out every single flaw in them, basically saying “come back to me when your arguments and concerns are valid”.

and then there are the “logical” insults. he’ll say “by your words and manner you are demonstrating that you are uncollected, emotional and incapable of carrying on a rational conversation”.

he is a software engineer\analyst with a small company. he does consulting\design\invited-hacking for firms who want to test the security of their systems. he has turned down jobs from microsoft, Adobe, lockheed martin, ect because with this company he is allowed to do most, if not all of his work from home. apparently, he is so good that they will do pretty much about anything to keep him. all i understand about what he does is the mouse and keyboard.

all in all, the man actually works about 10 hours a week. everyone says he has a gift beyond ordinary talents when it comes to math and computer [code? , (something along the lines of what computers do). he can do [whatever he does] in 1 hour what it takes most people 10 or 12.

that fact allowed me to spend much, much day time with him while [dating\engaged] i was finishing my [delayed] senior year in college, and he could just mosy on over to my girl’s apt and hangout. but as i said, come 930pm, it was time for him to go, so i guess he got used to doing what he well pleased in his house every night.

he was always proper and cordial, and could make fun of any political commentary or argument on TV. my roomates LOVED him because he could split our side laughing with his smirk intellect. i guess it was too much of a “fake” atmosphere because i wanted to keep things so proper and pure. i guess it put him on his “best behavior” all the time.

I “locked him out” after one bad argument where he was being pretty mean with his comments, and i was crying so hard i actually threw up. all i wanted was one cry-free night so i could sleep. instead, he kicked in the door, and went to the basement without a word and went to bed.

now it seems that brain of his is being used to tearing apart my concerns about our home life. i guess he feels that he no longer has to be so nice and charming. who knows?

 

[vern_humphrey]

From what you say, you’re engaged in a competition with your husband. This is a regretable thing that happens all too often in marriages. You’re also playing by his rules – and you can’t successfully oppose calm rationality with emotion. Crying is not an argument that will convince anyone.

You need to change the rules. First of all, decide what outcome you want. If you intend to stay married, and want a happy marriage, you need to develop a strategy to accomplish that. You might start by saying, “One of us in this marriage has to be an adult. I guess it will have to be me.”

Adults learn to make less of slights and insults, to seek not to be offended, and to control their emotions. Adults learn that you don’t have to win every argument, and that it’s often better to defuse an argument than to pursue it. Adults also know that to change anyone takes time – a lot of it. And patience – a lot of it.

In an ideal marriage, both spouses should make the other person’s happiness their first concern. Even if only one is committed to that degree, it will make both of them happier.

I would say, love your husband – after all, you took a vow to do that. Avoid all the things that have triggered arguments in the past. Ignore things that offend or annoy you. Don’t think that because you’re right you have to insist that he admit it.

Look for things that you both enjoy – do the things you did while engaged. Look for adventures, vacations, new places to go and new things to see together.

 

[wcknight]

Just because the honeymoon is over does NOT mean that your marriage is over.
It is now time to recognize all the warts in each other and learn how to cope and live with each other.

IF he is a reasonable person, and it sounds like he is, you have to change the atmosphere in which you both live. Simply explain how you really feel about the situation. There does not have to be a logical reason for your feelings (although your faith explains that it is logical). Feelings do not have to be explained away even if they are irrational which yours are not.

If this makes you upset then he should be concerned about it (and he is, even if he says that he is not). He does not want to live in conflict, no one does. Everyone wants a happy home life. He is no different. IF for no other reason except to have peace in your relationship, he should be willing to work on the problem with you.

But be patient and be understanding, tell him you are willing to give him plenty of time to work out his problems, but you definitely expect him to first recognize that your concerns are important to him and second recognize that your marriage is important to him.

wc