Testing Darwin's Teachers

[Tedster]

Orogeny:

That wouldn’t happen to be Creighton, would it?

No, Tim, again you are wrong in your assumption. I’ll give you a hint since it seems so important to you though. A secular school in my home state.

 

[MikeWM]

gelsbern:

If you can’t indoctrinate them when they are older, go to younger more modable minds.

What’s ‘indoctrinating’ about it? Evolution is a scientific fact. Do you not want the Gospel taught to young children either, on the basis that that may be ‘indoctrinating’?

We need to take notice of this, and I think action is needed, I can live with intelligent design not being taught in schools, as long as evolution is not taught there either.

That’s like saying you can deal with ‘the sun goes around the earth’ isn’t taught in schools as long as ‘the earth goes around the sun’ isn’t taught either. What a baffling position.

Mike

 

[robins]

what is the proof that evolution is a fact?
these following quotes are from “Special Creation Rediscovered” by Gerard Keane a book
the early Fathers of the Chruch found a complete catechesis on the creation and mans early history in the words of Christ. male female created from the beginning.
the proof of macroeveolution - or particles-to-people - was never provided.-

for Catholics this is important because if evolution claims that the bible is false in Genesis then where does the falsehood stop?
Pope Leo XIII
“If they lose their reverence for the Holy Scripture on one or more points, they are easily led to give up believing in it altogether”

yep!!! :tsktsk:
whoa to the one who leads others to sin. :bigyikes:

 

[MikeWM]

robins:

what is the proof that evolution is a fact?

It’s a scientific fact.

We could have a philosophical debate about what we can actually know and prove, at all, but this isn’t the place.

for Catholics this is important because if evolution claims that the bible is false in Genesis then where does the falsehood stop?

The account of the creation in Genesis isn’t false, but it isn’t necessarily literally true. We’re not Protestants, we don’t have sola scriptura.

yep!!! :tsktsk:
whoa to the one who leads others to sin. :bigyikes:

Science isn’t a sin. Evolution isn’t a sin.

Mike

 

[robins]

sola scriptura - no
bible in error - NO!!! :nope: God is the author - :tiphat:
-God created everything “in its whole substance” from nothing (exnihilo) in the beginning. (Lateran IV: Vatican Council 1)
-Genesis does not contain purified myths. (Pontifical Biblical Commission PBC 1909)
-Genesis contains real history - it gives an account of things that really happened (Pope Pius XII)
-We must believe the interpretation of Scripture that the Church Fathers taught unanimously on a matter of faith or morals. (Council of Trent and Vatican Council I)
-Various senses are employed in the Bible, but the literal obvious sense must be believed unless reason dictates or necessity requires otherwise (like plucking out the eyes etc…)(Leo XIII, Providentissimus Deus)
-The Church Fathers who wrote about the Creation Days overwhelmingly believed they were 24 hours each.
-The work of Creation was finished by the close of day 6, and nothing completely new has since been created. (According to the consensus of the Fathers of the Church).
The sin I refered to about evolution is the one that leads the Catholic away from these teachings.

 

[MikeWM]

robins:

sola scriptura - no
bible in error - NO!!!

Didn’t say it was.

-Various senses are employed in the Bible, but the literal obvious sense must be believed unless reason dictates or necessity requires otherwise (like plucking out the eyes etc…)(Leo XIII, Providentissimus Deus)

Indeed. Reason, through science, tells us that evolution is what has happened.

I am still baffled by the attitude that science is an enemy of religion somehow. Science has been given to us by God too. In fact, it is pretty much a miracle that science works as well as it does in helping us to understand the wonders of the universe. I see God in the beautiful way that science works.

The sin I refered to about evolution is the one that leads the Catholic away from these teachings.

There is nothing incompatible with our scientific understanding of evolution and the truth of our Catholic faith. Truth cannot contradict truth, as much wiser people than me have said. See

newadvent.org/library/docs_jp02tc.htm

Mike

 

[robins]

I am baffled by the fact that you got that evolution was an acceptable teaching from “reason dictates”. I can reason as well as anyone and I don’t come to that conclusion. I believe God did it all and if he wanted us to think we came from animals He would have made that clear.
The accident that accured to create man thru evolution made every one of us have different finger prints? Made the eyeball so complex - I wonder why everyone isn’t upside down? Plus the eye doctors can tell just about everything about our health from our eyes - accident sure.
Evolution is very often referred to as “fact”, not because it has been proven but because no opposing explanation is tolerated as valid. Thus, evolutionism is really faith in the “myth of evolution.” Evolution is not science it is a false “religion”.
You will believe as you will and God Bless you.
Evolution conflict with Catholic doctine. I believe as I will and so be it. :whacky:

 

[Benedictus]

Every time I hear another argument about evolution, I become more and more convinced that a disproportionate number of Christians are mentally retarded.

 

[robins]

Thanks

 

[Thekla]

robins:

Evolution conflict with Catholic doctine. I believe as I will and so be it. :whacky:

robins,
The Catholic Church does not see a conflict between the science behind evolution and the belief that God is Creator, so why do you? If you want to say that you don’t accept the science or you disagree with the Church, that’s your choice; it’s not a deal breaker. But don’t say that the Church’s position is something other than what it is.

Let’s just be clear. “I believe as I will and so be it,” is your attitude and not that of the Catholic Church. On many issues, the Church has admitted to mistakes, tried to right wrongs, and had its thinking evolve. Remember Galileo. Was the Church’s belief in God changed by the knowledge that came from Galileo’s studies? I don’t think so.
Thekla

 

[MikeWM]

robins:

I am baffled by the fact that you got that evolution was an acceptable teaching from “reason dictates”. I can reason as well as anyone and I don’t come to that conclusion. I believe God did it all and if he wanted us to think we came from animals He would have made that clear.

He did. He gave us science, which explains so much else about how the universe works. Why you think that on this one matter he would sabotage science to show us something that isn’t the case, ‘testing our faith’ by giving us contradictory stories in science and in scripture, is beyond me. Truth does not contradict truth.

Evolution is very often referred to as “fact”, not because it has been proven but because no opposing explanation is tolerated as valid.

Evolution is scientific fact. No opposing explanation is scientific.

You will believe as you will and God Bless you.

I will indeed, I will reach the conclusions that my God-given brain tells me.

Evolution conflict with Catholic doctine.

No it doesn’t.

Mike

 

[Orogeny]

Tedster:

No, Tim, again you are wrong in your assumption.

No assumption, Ted, only a question.

I’ll give you a hint since it seems so important to you though. A secular school in my home state.

Is that where you learned that evolution isn’t science? Or did you just make that up on your own?

Peace

Tim

 

[Orogeny]

robins:

Evolution conflict with Catholic doctine. I believe as I will and so be it. :whacky:

Well, according to paragraph 63 of bringyou.to/apologetics/p80.htm:

Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on earth are genetically related, it is virtually certain that all living organisms have descended from this first organism. Converging evidence from many studies in the physical and biological sciences furnishes mounting support for some theory of evolution to account for the development and diversification of life on earth, while controversy continues over the pace and mechanisms of evolution. While the story of human origins is complex and subject to revision, physical anthropology and molecular biology combine to make a convincing case for the origin of the human species in Africa about 150,000 years ago in a humanoid population of common genetic lineage.

That document was released by a guy named Ratzinger. Hmm. Where have I heard that name before?

Peace

Tim

 

[robins]

you know what i came here to find a group of Catholics that i could converse with and enjoy the faith with apparently that is impossible here. the hostility isn’t worth it. it is a shame really. evolution has nearly killed my faith. this board has added to that difficulty. i also know that believing in evolution isn’t required to being a Catholic.
so farewell.

 

[Tedster]

Orogeny:

Is that where you learned that evolution isn’t science? Or did you just make that up on your own?

That’s where I learned what it takes to make science valid and, as MikeWM says, “reach the conclusions that my God-given brain tells me.”

I didn’t make it up. Wouldn’t that be a coincidence that I would make up what so many Christians also believe,** that the theory of evolution is a flawed theory**. That would be mighty arrogant on my part to think I am the author of that line of thinking!!!

 

[Tedster]

robins:

you know what i came here to find a group of Catholics that i could converse with and enjoy the faith with apparently that is impossible here. the hostility isn’t worth it. it is a shame really. evolution has nearly killed my faith. this board has added to that difficulty. i also know that believing in evolution isn’t required to being a Catholic.
so farewell.

Stick in there robins! We will face many battles like this in our time, Christ told us so. As our beloved Pope John Paul II said, “Be Not Afraid”.

 

[robins]

Apparently you haven’t been enlightened of the new info that Pope Benedict shared with the people in St. Peter’s Square
Sunday, 24 April 2005

“Today too the Church and the successors of the Apostles are told to put out into the deep sea of history and to let down the nets, so as to win men and women over to the Gospel – to God, to Christ, to true life. The Fathers made a very significant commentary on this singular task. This is what they say: for a fish, created for water, it is fatal to be taken out of the sea, to be removed from its vital element to serve as human food. But in the mission of a fisher of men, the reverse is true. We are living in alienation, in the salt waters of suffering and death; in a sea of darkness without light. The net of the Gospel pulls us out of the waters of death and brings us into the splendour of God’s light, into true life. It is really true: as we follow Christ in this mission to be fishers of men, we must bring men and women out of the sea that is salted with so many forms of alienation and onto the land of life, into the light of God. It is really so: the purpose of our lives is to reveal God to men. And only where God is seen does life truly begin. Only when we meet the living God in Christ do we know what life is.
We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. :yup:
Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary. There is nothing more beautiful than to be surprised by the Gospel, by the encounter with Christ. There is nothing more beautiful than to know Him and to speak to others of our friendship with Him. The task of the shepherd, the task of the fisher of men, can often seem wearisome. But it is beautiful and wonderful, because it is truly a service to joy, to God’s joy which longs to break into the world
e Papel audience

 

[gilliam]

Can’t read yellow type

 

[gelsbern]

Run your mouse across it to highlight the text.

 

[MikeWM]

Tedster:

That’s where I learned what it takes to make science valid and, as MikeWM says, “reach the conclusions that my God-given brain tells me.”

I didn’t make it up. Wouldn’t that be a coincidence that I would make up what so many Christians also believe,** that the theory of evolution is a flawed theory**. That would be mighty arrogant on my part to think I am the author of that line of thinking!!!

I said ‘brain’, not ‘heart’

Mike