Thanking statues after confession? Idol Worship?

[planter654]

But unlike some of our Protestant brethren, we acknowledge that these people are actually bowing and praying to God, not preachers or podiums. So why is it so hard for some of our Protestant brethren to acknowledge the same for us? Why do they resist so fiercely?

Quit bashing the Protestant or any other faith? But pray for them and love them! LIke God said to Job about the fig tree that withered and died, Do I not have the right to be angry? Who are you to be angry over another mans servant?

Like when Jesus told the Apostles when they reported that another was speaking and preaching in his name. Leave them allow, for he preaches in my name!

Do not worship or kneel or pray to a block of stone with painted eyes etc!

 

[Nordar]

Quit bashing the Protestant or any other faith?

OK I get it!, pointing out how hypocritical it is for some to continually insist Catholics are idol worshippers, (Which is bashing Catholics), is a no no!
You and a few others on here seem to be the only ones bashing the Faith.of others:shrug:

 

[planter654]

Sure, but you sermonized directing it at me.Hogwash… the Catholic Church answered this issue long ago.Read it for yourself, the influence of Islam on some Christians. That’s the company you keep by espousing your misinterpretation of the Word of God.Yeah? I’m not the one that has been refuted and proved wrong around here. Because I know that there is such a thing as absolute truth and my love and commitment to the Lord Jesus Christ (who tells us that He is the truth!) makes me pursue truth and expose errors when someone presents them to my Catholic brothers and sisters. I know all too well the deception and misinterpretation as well as the misrepresentation of both the Word of God and Catholic teaching that some people choose to preach, and so when I find it. I respond with facts and scripture.

So did I with quotes from the bible. WE are no longer under bondage we are to also work out our salvation. All are not at the same level spiritially like St. Peter said: the Holy spirit blows upon who it wills!

That is why St. Peter said I cannot talk to you about “spiritually matters” for you are “still sipping milk”. Meaning not all are ready for solid food. Even Jesus knew that. That is why Jesus spoke of things as human beings are familar with. I am the good Shepherd of the sheep. we are the sheep. And those who were shepherds knew what there job and care was in taking care of their own sheep.

Did you know that if a sheep gets lost and falls on its back it cannot roll over and pick itself back up on its feet? They only have 24 hrs. if not found they will die. Jesus the our Shepherd through our trails and tribulations or very lost souls, Jesus is there. He said if I have to go down to the pit of hell he will and drag us back. He will never abondan us.

That is why St Pauls gospel is so diffifcult to some to understand, but read over, forever till God takes us home.
Trust in God, he lets us know what we need to know and when to know.

I ask have you tasted the sweetness of the Lord? He wisphers softly and there is no, no doubt who is talking to you! When you least expect it, when your not even thinking about him. Once you have tasted him you never, never stop thinking and thanking our Lord, our beloved through out the day. He becomes your first thought in the morning when you open your eyes and your last when you close them.

God loves us all dearly.

 

[wanner47]

planter – I’m still waiting for an answer to my question.

When I place flowers at the grave of my deceased child, do you think I am worshiping him/her, or worshiping his/her grave marker?

 

[planter654]

Cling2Cross and planter654 - so you’re saying that when I put flowers on the grave of my deceased child, I’m actually ***worshiping ***him/her?



News to me.

My friend I have put flowers on my beloved fathers, my grant mothers etc whom I love dearly also as you have. We are taking about “carve images made out of stone.”

God Bless loves us all

 

[VociMike]

My friend I have put flowers on my beloved fathers, my grant mothers etc whom I love dearly also as you have. We are taking about “carve images made out of stone.”

Catholic statues are not carved out of stone. Problem solved.

(of course, your comment just illustrates that you don’t understand the reasoning behind the prohibition, hence you focus on the literal words of the text*)

*but not on the literal words which prohibit “any likeness of any thing in heaven, or on the earth, or in the water”. Those words have been studiously avoided in this thread by the iconoclasts.

 

[planter654]

???

Don’t you think it is my concern to know whether I am committing idolatry or not? Was I screaching?

You are right in what you have said it is your concern. I am not here to judge anyone but to serve and do the will and desire of the Father who loves us all dearly. What you hear and when you hear it is up to you to seek, ask and knock to know if you are concerned. Get help from “your priest” who has that authority to guide, pray and trust in God, ask God also, talk to him, he will answer you.

God Bless

 

[Writer]

I don’t care to get too immersed in this topic (again), but I wanted to share part of an article I recently wrote on our understanding of the sacred and religious art.

Nearly a millenium before the rumblings of the Reformation, Pope Gregory the Great addressed the heresy of Iconoclasm. This particular false teaching held that all sacred images were idols and sought their removal from churches. There are indications that the movement itself may have been sparked by a Moslem influence, since that tradition shares a fierce opposition to sacred images. In a letter to an iconoclastic bishop named Serenus of Marseilles, Pope Gregory the Great wrote the following.

"Not without reason has antiquity allowed the stories of saints to be painted in holy places. And we indeed entirely praise thee for not allowing them to be adored, but we blame thee for breaking them. For it is one thing to adore an image, it is quite another thing to learn from the appearance of a picture what we must adore. What books are to those who can read, that is a picture to the ignorant who look at it; in a picture even the unlearned may see what example they should follow; in a picture they who know no letters may yet read. Hence, for barbarians especially a picture takes the place of a book." (Ep. ix,105, in P. L., LXXVII, 1027)

---

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It seems that Pope Gregory so eleoquently addressed this issue that all questions and concerns should be immediately resolved by his words, but sometimes I’m too optimistic.

 

[JoyToBeCatholic]

Mind if I chime in?

Perhaps it would be best to define an idol, and take the conversation from there.

From Merriam-Webster:

1**:** a representation or symbol of an object of worship; broadly : a false god2 a**:** a likeness of something bobsolete : pretender, impostor3**:** a form or appearance visible but without substance <an enchanted phantom, a lifeless idol — P. B. Shelley>4**:** an object of extreme devotion <a movie idol>; also : ideal 25**:** a false conception : fallacy

From Dictionary.net:
Idol \I"dol, n. [OE. idole, F. idole, L. idolum, fr. Gr. ?, fr. ? that which is seen, the form, shape, figure, fr. ? to see. See http://www.dictionary.net/searchbox.php?st=2&query=Wit”]Wit, and cf. Eidolon.]

1. An image or representation of anything. [Obs.]
2. An image of a divinity; a representation or symbol of a deity or any other being or thing, made or used as an object of worship; a similitude of a false god.

Define.com uses “reverence” and “veneration” as suitable replacements for “idolatry” in its thesaurus.

**

…a picture takes the place of a book.

**
I don’t light candles in front of or kneel down before any of my books, nor do I pray before them - not even my Bible.

Given the above examples, can you really, in good conscience, deny that the use of statuary in worship is idolatrous???

 

[pmoo]

I have just returned from my church’s Good Friday Veneration of the Crosses. Last year, when I was almost finished with RCIA) I kissed the cross as everyone else did, but I was extremely uncomfortable. To me, I could not and cannot forget what was drilled into my head as a youngster - Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Then, after the service today, my priest pulled me aside to tell me he was extremely upset with me and how I approached the cross and that it was important to show love. I reminded him the Misselette says there are several ways to venerate the cross: genuflexion, kissing the cross, touching the cross, bowing before the cross. While most kissed it, I touched my fingers to my lips and then touched the cross. I felt very comfortable with this as anything more feels like idolatry to me.

I tried explaining this to Fr., but he simply said he’ll discuss it with me more another time. I’m very upset as to me the cross is just that; it’s a symbol of Christ’s death and resurrection, but it’s not him.

I could do it but it would be phony and I know God doesn’t want that. Is this really necessary to show my love for Christ and my veneration of the cross?

 

[JoyToBeCatholic]

I have just returned from my church’s Good Friday Veneration of the Crosses. Last year, when I was almost finished with RCIA) I kissed the cross as everyone else did, but I was extremely uncomfortable. To me, I could not and cannot forget what was drilled into my head as a youngster - Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Then, after the service today, my priest pulled me aside to tell me he was extremely upset with me and how I approached the cross and that it was important to show love. I reminded him the Misselette says there are several ways to venerate the cross: genuflexion, kissing the cross, touching the cross, bowing before the cross. While most kissed it, I touched my fingers to my lips and then touched the cross. I felt very comfortable with this as anything more feels like idolatry to me.

I tried explaining this to Fr., but he simply said he’ll discuss it with me more another time. I’m very upset as to me the cross is just that; it’s a symbol of Christ’s death and resurrection, but it’s not him.

I could do it but it would be phony and I know God doesn’t want that. Is this really necessary to show my love for Christ and my veneration of the cross?

Why venerate the cross? Is it not to venerate what it represent in Christianity? Isn’t it really to venerate what the cross represents?

The best way I know of to venerate what the cross represents is to humbly and joyfully carry your own cross.

Peace,

 

[Neil_Anthony]

I have just returned from my church’s Good Friday Veneration of the Crosses. Last year, when I was almost finished with RCIA) I kissed the cross as everyone else did, but I was extremely uncomfortable. To me, I could not and cannot forget what was drilled into my head as a youngster - Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Then, after the service today, my priest pulled me aside to tell me he was extremely upset with me and how I approached the cross and that it was important to show love. I reminded him the Misselette says there are several ways to venerate the cross: genuflexion, kissing the cross, touching the cross, bowing before the cross. While most kissed it, I touched my fingers to my lips and then touched the cross. I felt very comfortable with this as anything more feels like idolatry to me.

I tried explaining this to Fr., but he simply said he’ll discuss it with me more another time. I’m very upset as to me the cross is just that; it’s a symbol of Christ’s death and resurrection, but it’s not him.

I could do it but it would be phony and I know God doesn’t want that. Is this really necessary to show my love for Christ and my veneration of the cross?

I’m shocked that a priest would pull someone aside because they kissed the cross via their fingers instead of directly. Was that his only concern, or did you do something else as you approached the cross?

I’ve seen lots of people choose to just kneel in front of it, or skip the veneration of the cross altogether.

 

[pmoo]

I’m shocked that a priest would pull someone aside because they kissed the cross via their fingers instead of directly. Was that his only concern, or did you do something else as you approached the cross?

I’ve seen lots of people choose to just kneel in front of it, or skip the veneration of the cross altogether.

I don’t think I did anything else!!! There were lots of people behind me, just as with communion, so I didn’t linger, but I watched others I didn’t bow as I do when receiving communion, but the cross is just a symbol! I even quoted to him the commandment, Thou shalt have no other gods before me" but he said it’s important to show love.

What’s funny is I almost stayed in my seat but then I read there were several ways to show veneration. I’m now even thinking I will skip the service all together in the future!

I’m very upset, particularly since I’ve only been a Catholic for a year. Despite that, I can feel myself growing in knowledge and faith all the time. He’s made me feel like I’m not faithful enough, but I just can’t get my mind around kissing a cross.

 

[wanner47]

My friend I have put flowers on my beloved fathers, my grant mothers etc whom I love dearly also as you have. We are taking about “carve images made out of stone.”

God Bless loves us all

So how do you, and/or the people around you, know you are not “worshiping” your relative’s gravestone when you place flowers before it?

This is what you said:

There is no getting around it any molten image! Period. Why place floweres to a block of stone painted, with black eyes for circles? Do not mock God! And God has given you common sense to know the difference. And if we had obeyed God’s commandments we would not be having this disscussion would we?

What if a gravestone is in the shape of an angel? I’ve seen many such gravestones at our local cemetery. Would placing flowers before the grave be “worshiping” the gravestone?

 

[katy]

Planter, in reading your posts, they do not sound as tho they come from a person with a Catholic background. I checked your other posts, and you appear to come from a JW point of view.

 

[lak611]

My friend I have put flowers on my beloved fathers, my grant mothers etc whom I love dearly also as you have. We are taking about “carve images made out of stone.”

God Bless loves us all

Gravestones are “carved images made out of stone”. Either you were worshipping a carved image, or else you are misinformed about the Commandment. Which will you admit to?

 

[Pier]

Haven’t read all the posts, but to those who are uncomfortable with statues that depict holy people who gave up their lives for God alone…

Do you have problems carrying pictures of your loved ones in your wallets? What is the difference between carrying a picture of a family member, and having a holy card or a 3-dimensional likeness of a member of Christ’s family? someone who gave up everything, including their possessions, for God?

Jesus said give up everything and follow him. Moses is held up as an example of a man of God - well, there have been others since. The god of materialism is more of an example of idolatry, and is what you ought to be leery of.

 

[mlchance]

…the Holy spirit blows upon who it wills!

The Holy Spirit is not an “it”.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[pmoo]

Haven’t read all the posts, but to those who are uncomfortable with statues that depict holy people who gave up their lives for God alone…

Do you have problems carrying pictures of your loved ones in your wallets? What is the difference between carrying a picture of a family member, and having a holy card or a 3-dimensional likeness of a member of Christ’s family? someone who gave up everything, including their possessions, for God?

Jesus said give up everything and follow him. Moses is held up as an example of a man of God - well, there have been others since. The god of materialism is more of an example of idolatry, and is what you ought to be leery of.

I do not have a problem with the cross. I have a crucifix in my bedroom and in my car. I also carry a cross in my car and have several as necklaces. As I said in my original post, I did not want to kiss the cross. I don’t kiss my relatives’ photos.

I also have no problem sitting before and/or looking at statues of Mary or Christ. However, I would not kiss them either as they are only that - statues. They simply represent THEM.

There is a TON of difference in carrying mementos and kissing them. My problem was kissing the cross. In fact, I lightly kissed my fingers and touched them to the cross and my priest was upset with my ‘attitude.’

 

[planter654]

I have just returned from my church’s Good Friday Veneration of the Crosses. Last year, when I was almost finished with RCIA) I kissed the cross as everyone else did, but I was extremely uncomfortable. To me, I could not and cannot forget what was drilled into my head as a youngster - Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Then, after the service today, my priest pulled me aside to tell me he was extremely upset with me and how I approached the cross and that it was important to show love. I reminded him the Misselette says there are several ways to venerate the cross: genuflexion, kissing the cross, touching the cross, bowing before the cross. While most kissed it, I touched my fingers to my lips and then touched the cross. I felt very comfortable with this as anything more feels like idolatry to me.

I tried explaining this to Fr., but he simply said he’ll discuss it with me more another time. I’m very upset as to me the cross is just that; it’s a symbol of Christ’s death and resurrection, but it’s not him.

I could do it but it would be phony and I know God doesn’t want that. Is this really necessary to show my love for Christ and my veneration of the cross?

You answered your own question: I know God does not want that! You have shown your great, great love to Christ, in your obedience in doing what he has asked you not to do! It is written in the bible fear of the Lord is called wisdom. Kneel in his presents, look up always he is there. Talk to him, praise him, adore him. Tell him, ask him, seek him, knock, knock, knock praise him, thank him. God is a living God!

God Bless for he loves you Dearly!