Thanks Kindle I have to now explain this to my child!!

[VeritasLuxMea]

Why don’t we just move forward to a time when “civil rights” are things like the right to vote, the right to be educated, and the right to be considered for any employment for which you are qualified, rather than making it about being allowed to do things that are physically impossible for you.

Because if this trend continues, we’re going to be giving out driver’s licenses to blind people so that they can feel “included” in society - and that it would be horrible not to let blind people out on the roads, because the alternative would be to make fun of their disability.

I know, I can’t believe the amount of gay men that want to be pregnant.

 

[The_Bucket]

I know, I can’t believe the amount of gay men that want to be pregnant.

I like the cut of your jib. Was everyone here complaining about Friends or Seinfeld in the 90s? They had unmarried people in bed. What about Happy Days and its constant references to necking and implications that The Fonz was sleeping with every girl in Milwaukee?

Sexual sin is sexual sin and while I don’t care for its glorification either, it’s not like it is anything new. Go read the Canterbury Tales for goodness sake!

 

[jmcrae]

I know, I can’t believe the amount of gay men that want to be pregnant.

Well, they can’t both get to be “the man” - at least, not at the same time. Somebody has to be “the woman.”

 

[sweetpetunia]

Not only that, it’s extremely irresponsible. A child who is “innocent” (read: ignorant) is far more likely to be a target of sexual abuse, not understand exactly why it is wrong, and struggle to communicate their concerns before the abuse occurs, and to report it afterwards.

That aside, they’ll hear it from everyone else first, and in doing so it will solidify in their minds that their parents either don’t think it’s important enough to talk about, don’t feel comfortable talking about it, think that sex is “evil”, don’t know much about it themselves, or any combination of the above.

Wow, you must really live in the hood. I don’t think you need to explain homosexuality or even sex to a child to have him understand that abuse is a no-no. And maybe I’m a little old school, based on my own life experiences, but I disagree strongly with the second part as well. The OP has faith that her child is in a religious private school where children are innocent, and kids are allowed to be kids, and I don’t think it’s right to say she is acting “extremely irresponsibly”.

OP, if you think your first grader should just enjoy being seven and focus on things like, oh, I don’t know…tying his shoes, riding without training wheels, losing his baby teeth, and all the things they learn in grade one, I say more power to you

 

[jmcrae]

I like the cut of your jib. Was everyone here complaining about Friends or Seinfeld in the 90s?

I was. I can’t stand those shows. I watched part of one episode, with Elaine evaluating a man (complete stranger) for sex. I shut it off and never watched it again.

They had unmarried people in bed. What about Happy Days and its constant references to necking and implications that The Fonz was sleeping with every girl in Milwaukee?

With that one you could pretend he was just kissing them - but I didn’t think it was appropriate for kids to watch at the time, and I still don’t. As far as I know, kids today aren’t really into the Canterbury Tales, so it’s not really a top worry.

 

[JillianRose]

You make it seem like this situation is all-pervasive throughout society. The truth is that only about 2% of the population identifies as gay.

Thank you!! I also don’t go around asking people. I am sure there are with everyday acquaintances. I even have heard of some neighbors to be. I DON"T KNOW THEM. Hearing about someone being gay and actually “knowing” is two different things.

Also, I graduated high school in the late 90’s, in the City of Chicago. NO one ever knew of or talked about someone being gay.

Maybe I should come out of the closet… Hi CAF I am heterosexual. I believe in traditional marriage. I can’t control my attraction to my husband…

 

[jmcrae]

Thank you!! I also don’t go around asking people. I am sure there are with everyday acquaintances. I even have heard of some neighbors to be. I DON"T KNOW THEM. Hearing about someone being gay and actually “knowing” is two different things.

Also, I graduated high school in the late 90’s, in the City of Chicago. NO one ever knew of or talked about someone being gay.

Maybe I should come out of the closet… Hi CAF I am heterosexual. I believe in traditional marriage. I can’t control my attraction to my husband…

HEY, me too! Let’s start a support group!

 

[JillianRose]

I detest many things that are on television. For instance, coming up to Christmas the ad slot on children’s tv channels is longer, and they are bombarded with all these ‘must have’ things that truth told, they don’t even really want. My husband and I were at home one morning enjoying a day off work and we thought we would watch a good show on tv. What did we find? Jerry Springer, Trisha etc. etc. and a chat show were a panel of ‘experts’ presented their views on whether or not women should ‘fake’ orgasms. We ended up watching ‘The Clangers’ as it was the most intelligent thing on.
It is becoming more and more difficult to find anything on tv you can watch before the kids go to bed. Soap operas - I wouldn’t have one on in house. Not so much because of the morality but because I think they are moronic and an insult to one’s intelligence.

‘Women’s’ magazines - don’t start me. I wanted to buy a magazine to read on the train a few days ago. It didn’t matter which one I bought as they were all the same. Celebrities relationship break ups, plastic surgery and diets, someone who was raped, someone who was sexually abused by a relative, someone who was grossly overweight, had a gastric band fitted and now looks amazing, stories of plastic surgery gone wrong yet by contrast - a pile of ad’s for plastic surgery on the next page. Such is the modern world.

My view is we cannot adopt the ‘three monkey’s’ approach - hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. People will lead their lives the way they want to irrespective of what we think of it, and we cannot hide this from our children. They will find out whether we choose to talk to them about it or not and if we don’t talk to them, you can be rest assured someone else will.

Men marrying men and women marrying women is something we have to deal with today. Our children need to be given the life skills to deal with it as well. You know how much information your child can cope with better than anyone. Don’t give him any more information than he needs, but be honest because children appreciate honesty.

I can’t believe when I tell people we don’t really watch tv in the evening they can’t believe it, and ask me what we do? I listen to the radio more than I watch tv, and I love reliving my youth listening to all the old songs I love on youtube. As a family we listen to music more than we watch tv. My husband plays a guitar and he is teaching my kids. They have their own electric guitars and they have formed a ‘group’ and written song. If we watch tv we often watch box sets of a tv series we all like.

Make your own fun with your kids. We play a game my parents played with me as a child my kids love. One of them sits on a chair blindfold. We tell them they are on a plane and we lift the chair a few inches from the floor. We touch a book on their head and tell them they are touching the ceiling. The we tell them the plane is on fire and they have to jump. They are only an inch from the ground. They now know the joke but they still love it and want to play it.
It all serves to distract them from screens.

Me and My girlfriends say we should become Amish Catholics!! Its a new offical term… LOL

 

[JillianRose]

That discrepancy can be caused by any number of factors and probably has little to do with the school. The point is, one can’t rely solely on a school to moralize their kid. It doesn’t matter if the teacher tells them homosexuality is sinful ten time a day, if mom and dad never say anything about it, they’re going to think it isn’t a big deal. Then they go out into the world and they think they are very alone and are likely to abandon their beliefs.

I was not saying that . There is a difference between shepherding a 7 year old and a 13 year old. My friends children go to secular school and they are told it is okay. Now she has a very confused 10 year old on her hands. I think if a child has questions then answer them. I can be secure that the nuns at my sons Catholic school are not going to tell him that it is normal that some people have two mommy’s and two daddy’s. I know my son. My son still thinks he can marry mommy and wants me to move away with him when he goes to college. I am not keeping him ignorant. It is not society’s JOB to do the JOB of his MOM and DAD. They are trying to plant a seed that is not theirs to plant.

BTW- Do not categorize EVERY CATHOLIC school because of YOUR experience. Catholics schools, when ran magisterially, can be a beautiful experience.

P.P.S. . I just know what I am teaching my children at home IS being reiterated at school. I am really sorry if you have been hurt, that you harbor bad feelings towards a good Catholic education. It is ashamed that there are Catholic schools that run on their own personal agenda.

 

[ephesians4]

Thanks pal!!

I just would like to keep his innocence until at least 5 grade. My boy still plays with Lego’s and loves batman. Just because society says my kids should know about sexuality when they are in first grade doesn’t mean it is okay.

I am whole-heartedly in agreement - it is NOT appropriate to push adult sexual tastes on small children, or to discuss or even mention them around other people’s children.

At the very least, we need to let parents (who are the ones who know after all!) gauge when their child is ready to discuss these things.

If it were any other kind of adult sexual tastes everybody would consider it perverted to introduce other people’s children to it - we might even call the police if someone did this personally - I do not understand why it has suddenly become OK with this one.

I think media and govts are badly misjudging people’s wishes on these things.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Wow, you must really live in the hood. I don’t think you need to explain homosexuality or even sex to a child to have him understand that abuse is a no-no. And maybe I’m a little old school, based on my own life experiences, but I disagree strongly with the second part as well. The OP has faith that her child is in a religious private school where children are innocent, and kids are allowed to be kids, and I don’t think it’s right to say she is acting “extremely irresponsibly”.

OP, if you think your first grader should just enjoy being seven and focus on things like, oh, I don’t know…tying his shoes, riding without training wheels, losing his baby teeth, and all the things they learn in grade one, I say more power to you

The hood? I was raised in the rural midwest. My graduating class had less than 100 people, and the nearest town (15 miles away) had a population of 4,000. Everyone was white, everyone was Christian, and everyone knew everyone. It’s about as far from a “hood” as you can get.

1. Sex offenders avoid children who know their bodies, what is right and wrong, and speak anatomically. That is a tip off to abusers that the child is comfortable and knowledgeable enough to go to a trusted adult. It doesn’t have to be graphic. My mother, a deeply religious woman, had a book when I was about 3 that was about good touching and bad touching, and yes, there were naked people in it. She explained to me “God gave you very special parts, and those parts should never be touched by anyone but you, me, or a doctor. When you are a grown up you can share those parts with your husband, but that’s it”. Later when I asked where babies come from she said “Remember how I told you that husbands and wives share their special parts? Well sometimes when they do that a woman gets pregnant.” Being four I accepted that answer. And throughout my childhood she added information as it became appropriate. But we always, from the time I was a small child said ‘penis’, ‘vagina’, ‘breasts’, ‘testicles’, etc. I actually think that the kids who had the best attitudes towards sex were the ones who grew up on a farm and saw how animals impregnated and born every year. It was just an accepted fact to them, not a joke, not a novelty, just life.
2. It doesn’t matter how good the school is, you cannot ensure that everyone who attends is being brought up in a home with the same values. I learned about oral sex on the playground in second grade because my friend’s teenage brother was talking about it in front of her and she wanted to know if people actually did that. My mom was horrified when I asked, but because I knew I could talk to her she was able to put it in the proper, or at least the best context possible. What is going to happen when one of her child’s classmates brings up their gay sibling or uncle? Or when one of them sees something inappropriate on TV and talks about it? Or overhears something they shouldn’t? The teachers and administrators could all be living saints, but it is no guarantee that every single child out of the hundreds that go there will all only be exposed to wholesome, age appropriate things.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

Jillian Rose,

I have not had time to read all the responses, but I did read a couple and I just had to post really quick to support you! It’s baloney that you have to explain all the awful sins out there to your child in order to prepare them. You can explain that marriage can only be between a man and a woman without having to go and talk the specifics about all the different types of unhealthy relationships people may choose. And then, when you see appropriate, if ever, you can address some of these issues. Same goes with many other topics… With each child, you, as their parent, should choose when to address any sensitive topic. It could be in reaction to something they have seen, or simply beforehand if you feel it would be appropriate. You don’t have to take a young child and explain every awful thing out there with which they may come in contact. You decide what would be helpful to deal with society, and always taking into account how it could affect their desensitization.

 

[adrift]

If it was the 1950s, popular media would teach your kids that segregation is a proud tradition and that all homosexuals are secretly pedophiles and communists who deserve scorn and the federal govt to track their every move.

Segregation was hardly presented by the media as a proud tradition. There were very few blacks on television at the time Amos and Andy is the only one that comes to mind. However, by the 1960’s that was being changed with I Spy, Julia and many guest star roles in many many shows. Amos and Andy is now widely condemned and few will admit that the show helped to break the racial divide. As for homosexuals, the media didn’t present them at all. It was all in the closet where it should have remained.

 

[adrift]

Not only that, it’s extremely irresponsible

Read it isn’t the way I would raise my child so it must be wrong.

A child who is “innocent” (read: ignorant) is far more likely to be a target of sexual abuse, not understand exactly why it is wrong, and struggle to communicate their concerns before the abuse occurs, and to report it afterwards.

Would you care to provide proof?

That aside, they’ll hear it from everyone else first, and in doing so it will solidify in their minds that their parents either don’t think it’s important enough to talk about, don’t feel comfortable talking about it, think that sex is “evil”, don’t know much about it themselves, or any combination of the above.

Or they just might ask there parents for an explanation. In the 60’s the idea of having sex ed in school came about in the schools where we live. What happened was an increase of children outside of marriage. It is to bad that you can’t raise children without them having to know about adult things. It is one thing to learn about the beauty of sex. It is another to learn of the sordidness of sex. Do you also think that they should know of Sadomasochism types of sex as well?

 

[sweetpetunia]

The hood? I was raised in the rural midwest. My graduating class had less than 100 people, and the nearest town (15 miles away) had a population of 4,000. Everyone was white, everyone was Christian, and everyone knew everyone. It’s about as far from a “hood” as you can get.

1. Sex offenders avoid children who know their bodies, what is right and wrong, and speak anatomically. That is a tip off to abusers that the child is comfortable and knowledgeable enough to go to a trusted adult. It doesn’t have to be graphic. My mother, a deeply religious woman, had a book when I was about 3 that was about good touching and bad touching, and yes, there were naked people in it. She explained to me “God gave you very special parts, and those parts should never be touched by anyone but you, me, or a doctor. When you are a grown up you can share those parts with your husband, but that’s it”. Later when I asked where babies come from she said “Remember how I told you that husbands and wives share their special parts? Well sometimes when they do that a woman gets pregnant.” Being four I accepted that answer. And throughout my childhood she added information as it became appropriate. But we always, from the time I was a small child said ‘penis’, ‘vagina’, ‘breasts’, ‘testicles’, etc. I actually think that the kids who had the best attitudes towards sex were the ones who grew up on a farm and saw how animals impregnated and born every year. It was just an accepted fact to them, not a joke, not a novelty, just life.
2. It doesn’t matter how good the school is, you cannot ensure that everyone who attends is being brought up in a home with the same values. I learned about oral sex on the playground in second grade because my friend’s teenage brother was talking about it in front of her and she wanted to know if people actually did that. My mom was horrified when I asked, but because I knew I could talk to her she was able to put it in the proper, or at least the best context possible. What is going to happen when one of her child’s classmates brings up their gay sibling or uncle? Or when one of them sees something inappropriate on TV and talks about it? Or overhears something they shouldn’t? The teachers and administrators could all be living saints, but it is no guarantee that every single child out of the hundreds that go there will all only be exposed to wholesome, age appropriate things.

Fair enough It was mostly said in jest in reference to your hyperbolic use of the word “everyone”. I actually grew up in a decent sized, mostly blue-collar city, and we didn’t have any of those problems at the elementary school I attended, so naturally your predictions seem a little dire to me, when applied to every case and every school. I also have close family members who are currently in elementary school, and they aren’t having any of the problems that you describe, either, so I know it can be done.

Regarding point number one, in terms of your own experiences, it sounds like we are in agreement that children do not need to know about homosexuality or even necessarily about sex before they know that it’s not okay for people to abuse them. I also agree that it is wise to take a matter-of-fact approach, but at a parent-discerned, age-appropriate time.

As to point number two, I can see why you might feel that way based on the experiences you had in second grade. That being said, there are plenty of parents who choose to tell their children more slowly and over a longer period of time, and they also grow up to be normal, healthy, well-adjusted adults with no underlying issues or traumatizing experiences. One could even make the argument that these children are in a sense more protected, as certain topics or double-entendres from so-called family films might go over their heads.

In answer to your questions of “what’s going to happen when…?”, I think it is fair parenting to cross those bridges when they come to it. That is essentially what your mom did, by your own description. Theoretical school-yard behavior is currently being used to justify teaching not so much sex education as explicit descriptions of sexually deviant behavior to younger and younger audiences. There is an actual agenda being pushed by left-wing activists at the provincial/state level to revise sex-education curriculum to include these things to children aged well below the double digits, and I am not in any way kidding.

Also, you are asserting that since your mom taught you about sex at age four, that is the reason you trusted your mom enough to confide in her. Well, perhaps, but that does not mean that this applies to all children, and it certainly does not prove a causal relationship. Just because the op’s son is unaware of homosexuality, doesn’t mean that he doesn’t have a normal trusting relationship with his parents where he would feel comfortable asking them questions or confiding in them. Anyways, I’ve blathered on more than I’ve intended! A good evening to you

 

[Allegra]

I was not saying that . There is a difference between shepherding a 7 year old and a 13 year old. My friends children go to secular school and they are told it is okay. Now she has a very confused 10 year old on her hands. I think if a child has questions then answer them. I can be secure that the nuns at my sons Catholic school are not going to tell him that it is normal that some people have two mommy’s and two daddy’s. I know my son. My son still thinks he can marry mommy and wants me to move away with him when he goes to college. I am not keeping him ignorant. It is not society’s JOB to do the JOB of his MOM and DAD. They are trying to plant a seed that is not theirs to plant.

BTW- Do not categorize EVERY CATHOLIC school because of YOUR experience. Catholics schools, when ran magisterially, can be a beautiful experience.

P.P.S. . I just know what I am teaching my children at home IS being reiterated at school. I am really sorry if you have been hurt, that you harbor bad feelings towards a good Catholic education. It is ashamed that there are Catholic schools that run on their own personal agenda.

You seem to have misunderstood what I said entirely. (or possibly confused me with another poster) Your son’s school may be perfectly kosher in it’s curriculum. However, unless the school is located in your basement, there are likely to be other children at the school other than your son. These other children have parents, circles of influence, and backgrounds that are different from you and your son’s. Children need to hear and learn this from their own parents, not a teacher. There are alot of people who seem to think that they can buy a plaid skirt and write a check and undo an entire childhood of silence and/or bad examples. No school is more powerful than the influence of a child’s parents, no matter how good the school may be.

 

[CradleJourney]

Me and My girlfriends say we should become Amish Catholics!! Its a new offical term… LOL

All right! Where do we sign up?

My teenager and I were talking last year and agreed our lives would be much simpler if we dressed Amish - then people would quit asking if we saw a certain show on tv (we don’t have cable) or what our cell phone number is (don’t have them, either). And until last year, only had dial-up internet so no fb, google or youtube. I still only check emails once a day (if that), and my other children’s friends don’t call because a) they only text or b) they don’t know what to say when someone answers a “family” phone - you know, where you actually say who is calling and ask if the person you wish to speak to is available.

And then there’s the whole “supervision” thing where I have to know where they are going, who they’ll be with, and for how long - all in advance (not an I’ll call you). No inappropriate movies, no offensive music, no sexually suggestive network tv, you know no “good stuff”

So I’m all in for this movement!

 

[VirtusTransitus]

To each their own, I guess. But if your kids are in public or private schools, and connected to the internet at all, your best bet is to have this discussion as early as you think they can handle it, and ON YOUR TERMS.

My brother is gay and has a long term partner. I’ve had to have this discussion with my kids very early. But you don’t have to have the “whole enchilada” discussion all at one time.

Explain why two men live together. Then, as the kids get older, you can introduce the core issues.

My 14 year old knows the whole deal. My 8 year old only knows that “Uncle J” is “Uncle S’s” special friend and they live together in the same house. Of course my 4 year old doesn’t know anything about any of it.

My opinion only: but the only option parents have (other than total isolation, which I would argue is very bad) is to engage early and on their own terms.

I find it surprising that some folks don’t have a gay person somewhere in their family or circle of friends.

 

[vera_dicere]

Well, if an ad during the Brady Bunch is the only place your kids been exposed to SSM then he’s living quite a sheltered life.

Just give an age appropriate fob off answer. ie. “Well, some men think they can marry other men, but they’re a little confused, because men can only marry women”.

He probably doesn’t need a blow by blow state by state crituque of the SSM debate.

There are considerbly worse things in this day and age than an ad supporting SSM.

 

[ephesians4]

I like the cut of your jib. Was everyone here complaining about Friends or Seinfeld in the 90s? They had unmarried people in bed. What about Happy Days and its constant references to necking and implications that The Fonz was sleeping with every girl in Milwaukee?

Sexual sin is sexual sin and while I don’t care for its glorification either, it’s not like it is anything new. Go read the Canterbury Tales for goodness sake!

My dear Wormwood,

I read with some degree of amusement your last letter about the patient’s posts on web forums. As you have correctly observed, there are few things so useful to us in a social context as flippant humour about, and flattery of, sinful acts. I really am most pleased with your progress.

Remember, nothing is that bad to these human vermin - as long as you can write it off in comedic fashion. As well as eroding the barriers that stand in the way of our good works great and small, this leverages the natural human tendency towards vanity and pride - and before we know it we are only an absent-minded hop away from scorn.

If the patient can at once be convinced among the faithful that he is more worldy-wise and sophisticated than them, and among the worldly and base that he is more pious and faithful to God than them, pretty much all we have to do at that point is sit back and watch our work do itself - bar the occasional prod in the right direction.

Your affectionate uncle,

Screwtape