The All-Knowing Creates the Hell bound?

[Peter_Plato]

Good analogy there, but the more I thought about this thru out the day, below is kind of what I came up with, it is quite simple and IMO, is proof against our free will, I realize this discussion was about God allowing people to send themselves to Hell, but free will plays a big part of that, and being that God is all-knowing, I think the below best describes what Im trying to say…

1. God’s knowledge cannot be wrong.
2. God knows that I will do A.
3. If I have free will, then (I can do A) and (I can do ~A).
4. If I can do ~A, then it is possibly true that I will do ~A.
5. If it is possibly true that I will do ~A, then God’s ‘knowledge’ that I will do A is possibly false.
6. If God’s knowledge that I will do A is possibly false, then God’s knowledge can be wrong.
7. Therefore, God’s knowledge that I will do A is not possibly false.
8. Therefore, it is not possibly true that I will do ~A.
9. Therefore, I cannot do ~A.
10. Therefore, it is false that (I can do A) and (I can do ~A).
11. Therefore, I don’t have free will.

Hopefully everyone can understand what Im trying to say here.

One problem, among others, with this argument is in statement 5. God’s knowledge of what you will do is logically dependent upon what you do. That does not entail it’s “possibly false.” Even though his knowledge is dependent upon your choice it is not so dependent in a temporal sense. He doesn’t have to wait in time for you to act. He knows what you will do even though it is you who have done it, and done it freely. We’ve been through this before. See post #55.

 

[Credo_in_Deum]

Thats impossible

Why is it impossible?

but if what you are saying is true, then God creates some people KNOWING they will end up in hell…what purpose does this serve?

I’ve asked myself this same question and I have come to the conclusion that the damned exist because they’re existence still proclaims the Perfections of God. This is not saying that the damned are in themselves good but that God who is Goodness itself has drawn good from their existence; hence, why they exist.

 

[BRZ]

There is a reason for the existence of all people. Every person serves a purpose in God’s design and there is no real way for us to know what that purpose is. What we do know, is that God uses even evil to do good.

 

[tonyrey]

Thats impossible, but if what you are saying is true, then God creates some people KNOWING they will end up in hell…what purpose does this serve?

What purpose does any life serve?

 

[mikekle]

What purpose does any life serve?

Well, it is said everyone God creates is created for a specific purpose, but to imply some are created for the purpose of evil is not something I can believe, because it says everything God created(s) is GOOD.

 

[BRZ]

You don’t understand. God doesn’t create people to do evil. Evil is choosing not to follow God’s will for us. People choose to do evil, however, God does know it will happen and uses even bad things to cause good. How he does it and what exactly are the far reaching effects are not known and can’t possibly be known by us. It is a mystery we have to take on faith. Also, you are looking at things in a worldly perspective and using a human lens to judge God. God can do what he wishes and we can’t possibly understand it until we die. For all we know, those that suffer from various evil causes may be very well rewarded in heaven and perhaps those people are satisfied with that.

 

[mytruepower2]

So this is my favorite theology/philosophy question:

1. God is omniscient, knowing past, present, and future.
2. God wants all humans to go to Heaven.

How can these two hold at once?
If God knows past, present, and future how can God create a human whose actions will lead to damnation? For these would be the result of free will but these actions would be known by God already.

This leads to three possibilities:

1. God is not truly omniscient.
2. God does not desire all his creations to reach heaven.
3. All humans, even those deemed evil, are, in fact, saved.

How can these be reconciled?

No, there’s no contradiction here. Even if you -know- what the future will be, that doesn’t mean that you can -prevent- certain people from choosing Hell over Heaven, regardless of what you may personally desire, in the same way that you may -know- someone is about to walk over a cliff, yet be unable to stop them from doing so.

There’s simply no contradiction between the premises, as stated.

 

[tonyrey]

Well, it is said everyone God creates is created for a specific purpose, but to imply some are created for the purpose of evil is not something I can believe, because it says everything God created(s) is GOOD.

No one is created for the purpose of being evil. We are created with the power to choose whether to be good or evil, to love others as well as ourselves or just ourselves.