The Anime Thread #1

[shondrea]

That could be it, Lily. Kenshin and I, I think, have two different ideas running around our heads right now. By all means, I’m not trying to DEFEND anti-hero’s, or their choices, or say, No, they’re not that bad! What I’m saying is, I hate to pigeon hole a work by stating, THIS is the hero, he’s good, and this is the villain, he’s evil. It just doesn’t work like that. You don’t see people in real life and decide, you are evil, you are good. We ALL do good and evil things. We all make poor choices. Some of us will do horrible things in life. But I refuse to believe this makes us “evil.” Just fallen.

I don’t care what the character type is called, It doesn’t mean anything to me if you want to call Character A a villain or a hero or what. I don’t care. My only point is, I don’t think any well-rounded and well developed character should be labeled “evil” due to some of their choices. They may do evil things, but you have to look at the character as a whole. What do they value in life? Do they love? Do they feel remorse? Do they feel saddened by some of their choices?

Or, do they not care? Do they feel nothing, love nothing?

I think there’s a difference between the two.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I’m…not disrtorting words for my own agenda. I’m merely saying what it is that I believe is an anti-hero.

An anti hero is NOT a villain. Not being a saint does NOT make you evil.

Then scream away, because LOTR is an excellent example of flawed, reluctant, yet ultimately great heroes

I did not say YOU were distorting words for your own agenda; I stated that those who coined the term ‘anti-hero’ were.

Actually, nobody here coined it. You do know Batman is considered an antihero too right? It’s because he is darker than the traditionally heroic boy scouts like Superman. You claim the difference between an “unlikely” hero and antihero. For goodness sakes, will you look at the wording here?

Anti + Hero.

Notice how people use it instead of VILLAIN. You wanna know why? It’s because “Anti” could stand for anything but I hold it (and you have no authority to declare otherwise) to mean that is against the traditional images of heroes being buff, dashing, princes on white horses. Bawl all you want about semantics but the word is a broad term; not like your inapplicable (not to mention downright nonsensical, irrelevant, far-fetched, and downright paranoid) comparison to “choice” and “abortion”. Honestly, do you like to drag that topic to every debate you engage in?

The anti-hero is an invention of the cynical, nihilistic crowd. Knowing some of your posts, I am surprised you support the concept.

By cynical you mean we believe the world isn’t some sugar-coated Candyland fairy tale with Barbie doll princesses and blonde knights in shining armor? Oh yes, how I gladly embrace that label.

I’m sick, it’s late, and I’m crawling back to bed now. Think about the so-called equivalency of the words ‘choice’ and ‘abortion.’ The former masks the ugly reality of the act. This is not by accident.

There you go, comparing apples with oranges… again.

 

[exoflare]

Ichimaru Gin, Bankai, next *Bleach *chapter.

This is not a spoiler, it’s a public service announcement.

LOL I think we’re the only two people on this thread keeping up with Bleach anyway.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

LOL I think we’re the only two people on this thread keeping up with Bleach anyway.

Well be glad you’re two. Me? I’m the only one here who still follows Naruto. (And yes, I feel it is being seriously underestimated because of bandwagon haters reacting too early. )

 

[exoflare]

Why do you think it has so many “bandwagon haters”? I’ve never seen it or anything.

 

[shondrea]

I’m not a Naruto watcher, but I definitely don’t hate it. No bandwagon beating here!

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Why do you think it has so many “bandwagon haters”? I’ve never seen it or anything.

Tis a common phenomenon really. When something becomes popular, attention-seeking naysayers will prop up and start bashing for the sake of being “individual”.

In this case though, them haters opened their mouths waaay too soon. Now the series has become the complete opposite of what they claim it to be.

Sure it starts out as a typical shounen and at some points seem to echo the standard storyline. The character development though? Pretty moving if you ask me. I don’t remember Goku being this obsessed to redeem a friend.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I just…I just haaate Lord of the Rings.

…You’re surprised I think a fiction character is interesting because they have flaws. Wow. Is this where you tell me how immoral and sinful I am for thinking Code Geass is interesting and though provoking? Since you obviously seem to be equating a fictional character type with abortion.

That is NOT what I am saying at all. Kindly go back and read my original posts.

If you want to pick a fight, pick it with those who distort the very meaning of reality by applying terms that mean the opposite of the thing they purport to describe. If you think there is no war of words going on, then you arrive at the battlefield without weapons.

LW and I often butt heads on certain subjects, but he’s a good guy and we both know it.

 

[Eagelswings]

I just…I just haaate Lord of the Rings.

…You’re surprised I think a fiction character is interesting because they have flaws. Wow. Is this where you tell me how immoral and sinful I am for thinking Code Geass is interesting and though provoking? Since you obviously seem to be equating a fictional character type with abortion.

Dude! How could you hate LOTR!? It’s one of the best books based of the bible to ever come out.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Yes, I wonder about that, too: LOTR being the most Catholic novel I’ve ever had the pleasure to read.

But to clarify (and this isn’t directed against EW):

If Shondrea or anyone else wishes to misunderstand me, there’s nothing I can do about it. If you wish to take my warning about the meaning of words as a personal attack when I already stated this was nothing personal, ditto.

But the term anti-hero is bad, period. ‘Anti’ itself has meaning: opposite, against. Why do you think the term anti-Christ means the opposite of Christ?

Main Entry: 1an·ti
Pronunciation: \ˈan-ˌtī, ˈan-tē
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural antis
Etymology: anti-
Date: 1788
: one that is opposed

The only hero who had no flaws was Jesus. Every other hero is flawed. The word anti-hero does not equal ‘flawed character’ any more than the word ‘choice’ equals ‘abortion.’

This is a basic concept. Words have meaning. If you choose to distort mine, then I think my point has already been made.

 

[shondrea]

I think LOTR is extremely well written, ground breaking and a milstone in literature; I just don’t like that kind of novel personally. But I’m not saying it isn’t good! Just that i tried reading it on 4 seperate occasions, and I just couldnt’ get into it. Just because a novel is “Catholic” doesn’t mean It can’t be boring as all heck.

Oooook, fine, I’ll stop calling batman an anti-hero, and just call him a lone wolf. Is that better?

 

[blazerdave]

“Because he’s not a hero. He’s a silent guardian, a watchful protector…a dark knight.”

 

[shondrea]

That is NOT what I am saying at all. Kindly go back and read my original posts.

If you want to pick a fight, pick it with those who distort the very meaning of reality by applying terms that mean the opposite of the thing they purport to describe. If you think there is no war of words going on, then you arrive at the battlefield without weapons.

LW and I often butt heads on certain subjects, but he’s a good guy and we both know it.

I just don’t think it’s logical to be arguing over the usage of a literary term that’s been around 3 centuries. We aren’t talking about scripture or Catechism here; in English, the connotation of words often change. Hundreds of phrases and words are no longer taken in their literal context, and i feel that “anti-hero” is one of them, meaning a character who has tragic flaws, or, or one with a heart of gold who wants the best for the world, but uses bad means to achieve the, or a hero that lacks the positive personality of most hero’s. If you don’t call that an anti-hero, what else would you call it?

BTW, i think the only reason EW and I got so flared up is you chose a very poor example to prove your point. I’m sure you were just comparing the WORDS, but comparing the triviality of a character archetype to the slaughtering of millions of children isn’t the best way to do it

But I wasn’t meaning to start a fight, I’m sorry. I think we both just misunderstood the other a bit. You were sick, and I’m sooo sunburnt

 

[shondrea]

“Because he’s not a hero. He’s a silent guardian, a watchful protector…a dark knight.”

…I SO want to make a Black Knights joke from that!

 

[foolishmortal]

Bad guys must be stopped, whether they’re ruined from childhood or they were raised well, but became rotten for material gain, fame, hate at misunderstanders, etc… Batman is a good guy, but I think there’s something humbling in submitting to the authorities if you’re doing good and not thinking the ends justify whatever means and you get caught. There’s power in the martyrdom of the humiliation of being brought in, people knowing your name, your having a criminal record etc. for something as harmless as trying to save babies at the abortuary’s door. I’ve never done that, but I admire those who do. Those who harm the abortion doctors are not admirable though, in the passion to save the baby, some sort of non-injurious restraint of the doctor is understandable, but it must be known to them it won’t last long and restrainers will be out of action for a while, though it opens up a chance for prison ministry.

 

[shondrea]

It’s…FICTION. Can’t we just enjoy a good show, enjoy all the drama, angst, all the questions it raises, the relations, the wonderful characters, without constantly having to point to the screen and say piously, He’s not being a very good Christian. He isn’t doing Christian things. It would be better if it was a Christian show. It would be better if he was submitting himself to God through the whole show and every bad guy went to jail and the world was a wonderful happy place

Sounds like a boring, boring show.

 

[exoflare]

It’s…FICTION. Can’t we just enjoy a good show, enjoy all the drama, angst, all the questions it raises, the relations, the wonderful characters, without constantly having to point to the screen and say piously, He’s not being a very good Christian. He isn’t doing Christian things. It would be better if it was a Christian show. It would be better if he was submitting himself to God through the whole show and every bad guy went to jail and the world was a wonderful happy place

LOL thank you

 

[shondrea]

OK, now that my subnurn induced angry rant is over, let me reiterate in more polite terms, eh?

I agree that when it comes to justice, ends do not satisfy means., EVERY Catholic knows this. But when it comes to anti he- er, wayward hero’s, we can find them interesting and find thei HEARTS admirable, without condoning their actions.

Take, for example, that guy here in kansas who shot the abortion doctor, Tiller? Of course I don’t think murdering an abortion doctor is moral, at all, even if he consequently saved countless unborn lives. BUT, I do feel very strongly for the man. He felt so very strongly that was he was doing was right, that he willingly put himself up to court for what he did.

he was misguided, he made a horrible choice, but it’s his passion and love for the unborn that we can admire. It doesn’t excuse his actions, and he desrved his punishments, but I hesitate to use a term like “villain” or “evil” for a man like this who might be portrayed in a book.

Since this is an anime thread, try Light. I HATE Light. I think he’s vaguely psychotic, and his intentions were only good-plated. But, I find him fascinating. I want to study him, from a psychiatric point of view. I love comparing him to Lelouch, contrasting their psyche’s, motives, intentions, and eventual endings. Such a twisted soul, Light is, but so fascinating.

So, what I’m trying to say is, even if the wayward hero is a mess, even if he’s a sinful, demented and desperate soul, the point of his character being like this is not to simply say, he’s an evil sinner. No, if written well, the character should be inviting you to study him, to see the heart and soul behind the sin.

Keep in mind, I’m a psychology buff. I love everything that has to do with sociology, psychiatry, abnormal and developmental psych. This fascination of mine, I’ve come to see, leads me to watch or read something a little differently. EVERY story becomes a character study for me.

I’m sorry for coming across as brash beforehand. Pwease to forgive?

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I just don’t think it’s logical to be arguing over the usage of a literary term that’s been around 3 centuries. We aren’t talking about scripture or Catechism here; in English, the connotation of words often change. Hundreds of phrases and words are no longer taken in their literal context, and i feel that “anti-hero” is one of them, meaning a character who has tragic flaws, or, or one with a heart of gold who wants the best for the world, but uses bad means to achieve the, or a hero that lacks the positive personality of most hero’s. If you don’t call that an anti-hero, what else would you call it?

BTW, i think the only reason EW and I got so flared up is you chose a very poor example to prove your point. I’m sure you were just comparing the WORDS, but comparing the triviality of a character archetype to the slaughtering of millions of children isn’t the best way to do it

But I wasn’t meaning to start a fight, I’m sorry. I think we both just misunderstood the other a bit. You were sick, and I’m sooo sunburnt

Actually, it’s the BEST way to do it.

The enemy has gotten even pro-life Catholics to use the term ‘pro-choice’ instead of ‘pro-abortion.’

Words and their meaning is a very serious matter. My example illustrates that words do indeed have meaning, and when those who want to reshape this world into their own image trick us, just as the Serpent did, we fall dead on the battlefield.

It is always logical to argue for the true meaning of words, because God is rationality Himself, and to separate words from meaning
is to turn your back on reality.

There was NOTHING in my original point that I wish to retract. I stated it was not personal, but philosophical. It is a basic concept of faith and reason.

When you have an entire society dedicated to convincing everyone that black is white, good is evil, life is death, you’d better pay attention to the meaning of words.

I thnk many of us here agree that moral relativism is an inherent evil, so on this Friday of Our Lord’s Passion, let us leave it at that.

 

[shondrea]

…whatever. Just…whatever.

When you actually want to get on topic, answer my questions and get into the conversation the rest of us are having, let me know.