The Answer to Catholicism - Right in God's Word

[axolotl]

Sanctus:

Everyone should be treated with charity…charity is paramount! But Kyle should stick around, tell us what he thinks…what he’s learned, what he’s reading etc.

I’m sure he’ll be back tomorrow. He eventually comes back to all his threads. I don’t know which time zone you live in, but here in Ohio, it’s late, and a school night, and finals time.

He’s a kid. He asks. Comes back and sees the answers, usually responds.

I think he is sincere for the most part, just terribly misguided and easily misled.

 

[surfinpure]

Lisa4Catholics:

Kyle I took a look at your past posts:nope: Are you being sincere?Are you on a search for truth or a quest for reaction?I would appreciate your response.

Based on the original post, I’d have to say he’s out to get a reaction. I don’t see much point in responding, given the rude and inflammatory nature of the post. Usually dialogues started with “Let me tell you why you’re all insane” have nowhere to go but down.

 

[kyle8921]

It just seems… that the further I dive into religion, the more I study Catholicism, the more I ask God to help me find the truth, the less and less I believe Catholic beliefs.

I think that we worship Mary using different words. Either way, it’s still worship.

Here is quote I found:

“Listen, all you who desire the kingdom of God: honor the Blessed Virgin Mary and you will find life and eternal salvation” - St. Bonaventure

Where in the Bible are seven sacrements?

And…

“We declare, announce and define that it is altogether necessary for salvation for every creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Papal Bull UNAM SANCTUM, Pope Boniface VIII, November 18, 1302)

There’s just so much I can’t agree with. For one, the Rosary isn’t necessary. You could just as easily draw dots on a sheet of paper to represent the prayers. We use the rosary because it looks “pretty.”

And about the bread and wine literally turning in Jesus… that is just plain stupid. Jesus spoke with metaphors all the time! You can’t take everything literally, and he even said “do this in commemoration for me.”

And we do too much to be saved. Is going to a priest any better than asking Christ for forgiveness? Is Mary really necessary for eternal salvation? How much exactly does it cost to get into Heaven? And wait… after all this, I’m still going to suffer for sins in Purgatory? What about Christ?

And to believe that any man is infallible is just… I just can’t accept it. Only God is perfect.

I know you thought the thing about Vatican City and the seven hills was stupid. Sure, there are other cities situated on seven hills too, but have they “fornicated” with the kings of the Earth? Do they have power over the kings of the Earth, and are "drunk with the blood of martyrs? I don’t think so.

I still need to study more. But for now, Catholicism is most likely not the truth for me.

 

[Church_Militant]

Maybe you should focus on Catholicism and it’s multitude of winners instead of all the losers. Namely the lives of the saints, instead of reading about the Catholic Church. If you want something socially acceptable to all your Prot friends and something that has no blemishes you are flat outta luck Kyle. I see you don’t mention the lives of the saints or any of the disasters of Protestantism nor their persecutions of Catholics all over the world. Guess no one bothered to tell you about the “Know Nothings” right here in our own country. Or how St. Thomas More died and why? Seems to me that you’ve been fed a lot of highly selective reading material that you need to balance out with some of what my friends have already offered you. It’s real easy for the Prots and Fundies to bad mouth the church, but it doesn’t matter to them since they are not following the fullness of truth anyway.

It’s not about what others have done as much as it’s about obeying a moral absolute truth when you find it. I’m Catholic because it’s all true, not because someone out there did or didn’t live up to that truth. I’m primarily responsible for my own soul…not yours or anyone elses and if I worry too much about yours, I’ll probably find myself in hell and still be let down because neither of us will live up to it.

You’re being led astray my friend and I strongly recommend that you wake up and smell what those folks are shovelling at you.
Pax tecum,

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

kyle8921:

It just seems… that the further I dive into religion, the more I study Catholicism, the more I ask God to help me find the truth, the less and less I believe Catholic beliefs.

I think that we worship Mary using different words. Either way, it’s still worship.

Here is quote I found:

“Listen, all you who desire the kingdom of God: honor the Blessed Virgin Mary and you will find life and eternal salvation” - St. Bonaventure.What does this Saint mean by that you ask?If you honor her you will find eternal salvation If you honor Mary you take her advice right?What does she say?Do whatever HE tells you

Where in the Bible are seven sacrements?Yes there are

And…

“We declare, announce and define that it is altogether necessary for salvation for every creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Papal Bull UNAM SANCTUM, Pope Boniface VIII, November 18, 1302)Jesus,told us to submit to proper authority and be obedient and we will.

There’s just so much I can’t agree with. For one, the Rosary isn’t necessary. You could just as easily draw dots on a sheet of paper to represent the prayers. We use the rosary because it looks "pretty."The Rosary is a contemplation of scripture and your problem with that is? The beads as your praying helps in contemplating the mysterys.

And about the bread and wine literally turning in Jesus… that is just plain stupid. Jesus spoke with metaphors all the time! You can’t take everything literally, and he even said "do this in commemoration for me."Then you explain Eucharistic miracles and why Jesus would allow those who walked away knowing full well what He meant to go away without correcting them?That is saying Jesus deceived them and can not deceive nor can He be deceived.

And we do too much to be saved. Is going to a priest any better than asking Christ for forgiveness? Is Mary really necessary for eternal salvation? How much exactly does it cost to get into Heaven? And wait… after all this, I’m still going to suffer for sins in Purgatory? What about Christ?Going to a Priest was the directive of Christ, Mary said yes does she save us no her Son does,you have big time missunderstanding of Mary and the Church.You are cleansed of the effects of sins in purgatory your sins were still forgiven.You got to get cleaned up man

And to believe that any man is infallible is just… I just can’t accept it. Only God is perfect.Major error in your thinking about the Pope His pronouncements on the faith are infallible and protected by the Holy Spirit,he is not infallible as a man.

I know you thought the thing about Vatican City and the seven hills was stupid. Sure, there are other cities situated on seven hills too, but have they “fornicated” with the kings of the Earth? Do they have power over the kings of the Earth, and are "drunk with the blood of martyrs? I don’t think so.Well,sir so have the protestants,Muslims and various other groups,so if you are looking for a perfect human group you will not find it.

I still need to study more. But for now, Catholicism is most likely not the truth for me.

In your quest for TRUTH you would do well to remember that Truth is not relative and Truth does not change based on your opinion

 

[Swiss_Guard]

kyle8921:

I still need to study more. But for now, Catholicism is most likely not the truth for me.

Ah, the truth for me, as if truth is subjective rather than objective.

---

I looked at your profile and see that you are only 16. These posts sound like something from a teenager who knows very little about the Catholic faith in particular and Christianity in general.

---

I’m praying for you Kyle that you see things clearly and remain in the Catholic Church, the church founded by our Lord Jesus Christ, and are not manipulated by the infantile arguments of the Fundamentalists. I’m also praying you for your maturity, as the more mature a person is, the more that person will see Fundamentalism for what it is, a childish version of Christianity. St. Paul says when he became an adult he left his childish ways. I hope you leave your childish ways Kyle and come to the mature faith, the faith of the Catholic Church.

 

[jimmy]

kyle8921:

It just seems… that the further I dive into religion, the more I study Catholicism, the more I ask God to help me find the truth, the less and less I believe Catholic beliefs.

Continue to pray for truth. We should all pray for truth for our whole life.

kyle8921:

I think that we worship Mary using different words. Either way, it’s still worship.

Here is quote I found:

“Listen, all you who desire the kingdom of God: honor the Blessed Virgin Mary and you will find life and eternal salvation” - St. Bonaventure

We do not worship Mary. However, we do honor her. To honor her is not the same as to worship her. As said above, there are different types of honor in Catholicism. All honor given to a saint, or Mary, is given in reference to God and because of God. It is because of their love for God and that God has given to them that we honor them.

Can you give the surrounding text for that quote, and the text which it is in. It is dangerous to give a single sentence like that because it is easy to misunderstand what is being said. Further, what Bonaventure said is not wrong necisarily. If we pray to Mary, she will most certainly pray to God for us. Those prayers are more efficacious than any we could ever offer according to James 5, which says, “The prayers of a righteous man availeth us much”.
You will find no man more righteous than one who has died and been cleansed by Christ of all their temptations andattachments.

kyle8921:

Where in the Bible are seven sacrements?

It does not say the number seven, but all the sacraments are in the bible.

kyle8921:

“We declare, announce and define that it is altogether necessary for salvation for every creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Papal Bull UNAM SANCTUM, Pope Boniface VIII, November 18, 1302)

And it is. There was one Church establiished by Christ and it is called The Catholic Church. The first and second century Christians support this.

kyle8921:

There’s just so much I can’t agree with. For one, the Rosary isn’t necessary. You could just as easily draw dots on a sheet of paper to represent the prayers. We use the rosary because it looks “pretty.”

I agree, the rosary is not necisary. In fact, the Church has never claimed it was necisary, but to pray the rosary is efficacious and benificial. The beeds are not necisary in order to pray the prayers. They are just used to keep track of prayers. If you wanted to use a peice of paper that would be fine.

 

[jimmy]

kyle8921:

And about the bread and wine literally turning in Jesus… that is just plain stupid. Jesus spoke with metaphors all the time! You can’t take everything literally, and he even said “do this in commemoration for me.”

It is in memory of Him, but that does not mean it is not also a True Presence. The Apostles would completely disagree with you. For example Paul says,

"Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. "

How can you be guilty if it is just a symbol? That would be completely contradictory.

The fact that Christ often spoke in metaphors does not affect it. Look at the fact that in John6 when Christ said this, many Jews walked away and said,

This saying is hard, and who can hear it?

Jesus did not stop them or tell them it was a metaphor. There is no indication in the text that he is speaking in a metaphor. In fact the fact that the Jews walked away because it was too hard for them to believe is proof that he was being straight forward and speaking literally. Jesus asked the apostles in the end of the chapter if they were also going to abandon him, further proving that he was being literal.

Whether you think it stupid or not does not affect the truth of it.

kyle8921:

And we do too much to be saved. Is going to a priest any better than asking Christ for forgiveness? Is Mary really necessary for eternal salvation? How much exactly does it cost to get into Heaven? And wait… after all this, I’m still going to suffer for sins in Purgatory? What about Christ?

It is an oxymoron to say we do too much to be saved. Salvation is a process of becoming more like Christ. To say we do too much denies the whole process and turns it into a one time thing. We must sacrifice to recieve salvation. Read Matthew 25, read James 2, read the parable of the rich man. They will all tell you how to live.

Going to confession is far better than confessing in private. It shows your love for Christ that you are willing to do what it takes for Christ. Christ said after the ressurection speaking to his disciples,

Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

I also suggest the reading of Matt18.

Mary is not nessicary, but she is most deffinately efficaceous and benificial.

Revelation says that no unclean person shall be in heaven. All those in heaven are absolutely perfect. If you have any attachment to sin, you must be cleanse of it. That is the purpose of Purgatory. It is a cleansing of the soul.

What about Christ? Yes, He is God, the second person of The Trinity. He is are salvation.

 

[jimmy]

kyle8921:

And to believe that any man is infallible is just… I just can’t accept it. Only God is perfect.

No one has ever claimed the pope is perfect. Read the teaching of Vatican council 1. It teaches that the pope is granted an infallible charism at times in history in order to maintain the true faith of the Church. It does not teach that he is perfect or sinless or anything. In fact the pope goes to confession a couple times a week, so to make this claim is not founded on Catholic teachings.

Whether you can accept it or not does not affect the truth of it. Christ gave authority to the Church and to the Bishop of Rome as the leader of the Church.

kyle8921:

I know you thought the thing about Vatican City and the seven hills was stupid. Sure, there are other cities situated on seven hills too, but have they “fornicated” with the kings of the Earth? Do they have power over the kings of the Earth, and are "drunk with the blood of martyrs? I don’t think so.

I still need to study more. But for now, Catholicism is most likely not the truth for me.

The Catholic Church has no power over any king on earth. Does George Bush take orders from Benedict XVI? How about when the pope opposed the war in Iraq, did Bush take orders from him? I don’t think so. There is no king that is subject to the pope.

Further, you missed one of the main points. Vatican city is not built on seven hills. It is not in Rome. Someone above named the seven hills which Rome was built on. Vatican city is on a whole other hill that is across the Tiber river from Rome. It can not be associated as the beast of the seven hills.

 

[Church_Militant]

kyle8921:

It just seems… that the further I dive into religion, the more I study Catholicism, the more I ask God to help me find the truth, the less and less I believe Catholic beliefs.

I think that we worship Mary using different words. Either way, it’s still worship.

Then you think wrong…Period. Check it out in depth as I did and you’ll see that there is no Mariolatry in Catholicism and there never has been. This is nothing more that a fundie misrepresentation of the truth.

Here is quote I found:

“Listen, all you who desire the kingdom of God: honor the Blessed Virgin Mary and you will find life and eternal salvation” - St. Bonaventure

Did it occur to you that Bonaventure is pointing out that by honoring the Blessed Virgin and imitatiing her faithful and holy life that we might just make it in to heaven. I know Bonaventure…he ran around with St. Francis of Assisi if I recall right. Speaking of which does your personal live measure up at all like the lives of Mary, Francis, and Bonaventure? they seem like fine role models for anyone to me.

Where in the Bible are seven sacrements?

This one is really easy: Read these:
catholic.com/library/sacraments.asp
To me the sacramenmtal principle is really clear. Did Jesus use tangible things to perform healings? like spit, mud, fish and bread and wine and that principle is carried over from the OT itself. How’d you manage to miss that?

“We declare, announce and define that it is altogether necessary for salvation for every creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Papal Bull UNAM SANCTUM,

Pope Boniface VIII, November 18, 1302)

So? Is the pope the successor of St. Peter, if so he is the Prime Minister of the church under Our Lord and by Our Lord’s own annointing. Go back and read in 1st Samuel what David says about messing with God’s annointed, then look up what happened to Annanias and Saphira in Acts of the apostles when they tried to play games with the Holy Spirit. Go back and look at what it means for any king to give the keys to teh kingdo to any man and then realize that that was the very authority that was given to Peter and handed down in order to help keep the church from doctrinal errors.

There’s just so much I can’t agree with. For one, the Rosary isn’t necessary. You could just as easily draw dots on a sheet of paper to represent the prayers. We use the rosary because it looks “pretty.”

Prayer beads are a part of many religions and so is the meditations that go along with the Rosary. My rosary has been through some rough times…in fact it’s broken right now and anything but “pretty” (though pretty is okay too, if it lifts one’s heart to God) but I still pray it and love it and mostly because I get to have that time to really deeply meditate on the life of Christ. If you don’t get this then your view of the Rosary is outta whack.

cont’d

 

[Jew_Man_73]

1. Kyle, you’re a wack-job. Get over your pride.
2. The Vatican is on Vatican Hill (that would be hill 8, for the numerically inclined). Rome proper has the other 7.
3. Just for fun, let’s look at some other cities with seven hills…
amman, saudi arabia
istanbul, turkey
kampala, uganda
seven hills, ohio
lisbon, portugal
tirupati, india
kerala, india
nimes, france
lynchburg, virgiania
san francisco
jerusalem
rio de janero

…but wait…if there’s more than one option, how do you know you have it right?!? Oh, that’s right, you’ve declared yourself infallible! You just have to be right…don’t you?

I gre up in Lynchburg, Virginia. I can verify that it does indeed sit on 7 hills. In fact, Lynchburg’s nickname is “The City of Seven Hills.” Add that to the fact that there are actually 8 hills in the area of Rome (And not 7), this argument makes no sense. I’ll pray for you, Kyle.

 

[exoflare]

kyle8921:

Is Mary really necessary for eternal salvation? How much exactly does it cost to get into Heaven? And wait… after all this, I’m still going to suffer for sins in Purgatory? What about Christ?

And to believe that any man is infallible is just… I just can’t accept it. Only God is perfect.

These little sentences speak volumes of the misguidance you’ve recieved. First of all, you ask whether Mary was necessary for eternal salvation. I’d say Christ never being born would probably have been a bad thing, myself. Also, what is your point about being able to use dots on a piece of paper if you wanted? Yeah, you could… you could count on your fingers for all I care, what’s the point? It sounds like you’re taking your own past fixation on the physical elements of the church that you mentioned and trying to pin blame for that on church teaching itself.

Your assumption that papal infallibility must mean the pope is “perfect” reveals a lot about you as well. Why don’t you actually find out what the dogmas ARE before you start to criticize them?

 

[surfinpure]

kyle8921:

And about the bread and wine literally turning in Jesus… that is just plain stupid.

Kyle, you’re treading on thin ice, my friend. You don’t have to agree with us, but you do, according to the rules of the forum, have to be respectful. This is the type of statement that moderators tend to frown upon, and it isn’t the first time for you. Please begin to address our beliefs with respect.

 

[kyle8921]

surf(name removed by moderator)ure:

Kyle, you’re treading on thin ice, my friend. You don’t have to agree with us, but you do, according to the rules of the forum, have to be respectful. This is the type of statement that moderators tend to frown upon, and it isn’t the first time for you. Please begin to address our beliefs with respect.

Ok… I’m sorry. This is just one belief I will never believe. Just put the bread under a microscope, and you will see it is normal bread, not Jesus’ flesh.

I just think that the Bible is FULL of symbols and metaphors. This was merely an honoring of Jesus, something we do to commemorate him. Did he even say that it the bread and are literally him?

 

[surfinpure]

kyle8921:

Ok… I’m sorry. This is just one belief I will never believe. Just put the bread under a microscope, and you will see it is normal bread, not Jesus’ flesh.

I just think that the Bible is FULL of symbols and metaphors. This was merely an honoring of Jesus, something we do to commemorate him. Did he even say that it the bread and are literally him?

YES, He DID. Read some of the other posts, then go read your Bible, then read what the apologists and Fathers of the Church have to say about it. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

 

[Eden]

kyle8921:

There’s just so much I can’t agree with. For one, the Rosary isn’t necessary. You could just as easily draw dots on a sheet of paper to represent the prayers. We use the rosary because it looks “pretty.”

And about the bread and wine literally turning in Jesus… that is just plain stupid. Jesus spoke with metaphors all the time! You can’t take everything literally, and he even said “do this in commemoration for me.”

Regarding the rosary:

deoomnisgloria.com/mt/archives/000309.html

The rosary is a way of praying the Gospels. Most commonly, the rosary is prayed using beads to help those praying it remember where they are during the prayer (this allows you to focus). The beads are broken into five sections, each of which is designed to allow the one praying to focus on some aspect of the Gospels. **However, the beads aren’t necessary to the prayer and many people have small “finger rosaries” that allow them to keep track without carrying around the full rosary. **

About transubstatiation, this was told to us by Jesus Christ and it was not symbolic:

Jesus first repeated what he said, then summarized: “‘I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.’ The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, ‘How can this man give us his flesh to eat?’” (John 6:51–52).

His listeners were stupefied because now they understood Jesus literally—and correctly. He again repeated his words, but with even greater emphasis, and introduced the statement about drinking his blood: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him" (John 6:53–56).

No Corrections

Notice that Jesus made no attempt to soften what he said, no attempt to correct “misunderstandings,” for there were none. Our Lord’s listeners understood him perfectly well. They no longer thought he was speaking metaphorically. If they had, if they mistook what he said, why no correction?

On other occasions when there was confusion, Christ explained just what he meant (cf. Matt. 16:5–12). Here, where any misunderstanding would be fatal, there was no effort by Jesus to correct. Instead, he repeated himself for greater emphasis.

In John 6:60 we read: “Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, ‘This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?’” These were his disciples, people used to his remarkable ways. He warned them not to think carnally, but spiritually: “It is the Spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life” (John 6:63; cf. 1 Cor. 2:12–14).

But he knew some did not believe. (It is here, in the rejection of the Eucharist, that Judas fell away; look at John 6:64.) “After this, many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him” (John 6:66).

This is the only record we have of any of Christ’s followers forsaking him for purely doctrinal reasons. If it had all been a misunderstanding, if they erred in taking a metaphor in a literal sense, why didn’t he call them back and straighten things out? **Both the Jews, who were suspicious of him, and his disciples, who had accepted everything up to this point, would have remained with him had he said he was speaking only symbolically. **

But he did not correct these protesters. Twelve times he said he was the bread that came down from heaven; four times he said they would have “to eat my flesh and drink my blood.” John 6 was an extended promise of what would be instituted at the Last Supper—and it was a promise that could not be more explicit.

For the full article go here: catholic.com/library/Chr…e_Eucharist.asp

For the first 500 years of Christianity, the transubstantiation was a given. It was not even questioned.

Please read this: therealpresence.org/eucharst/father/a5.html

 

[Jew_Man_73]

I just think that the Bible is FULL of symbols and metaphors. This was merely an honoring of Jesus, something we do to commemorate him. Did he even say that it the bread and are literally him?

Ok, Kyle. You think the Bible is full of symbols and metaphors. Fine. have you stopped to think that maybe all these things you’re bringing up in the book of Revelation are actually symbols and metaphors, and not to be taken literally? In order to be completely fair, you have to explore that possibility too. I’ll be praying.

 

[jimmy]

kyle8921:

Ok… I’m sorry. This is just one belief I will never believe. Just put the bread under a microscope, and you will see it is normal bread, not Jesus’ flesh.

I just think that the Bible is FULL of symbols and metaphors. This was merely an honoring of Jesus, something we do to commemorate him. Did he even say that it the bread and are literally him?

It is called faith. It is no tougher to believe than any other thing in Christianity.

Yes, he did say it was literally his Body and Blood. Read John 6.

I also suggest you read Ignatius, who was the disciple of the apostle John, to the Romans at this link. It is pretty revealing about what he thought of the Eucharist.

Ignatius to The Romans

Particularly this,

The prince of this world would fain carry me away, and corrupt my disposition towards God. Let none of you, therefore, who are [in [/color]Rome] help him; rather be ye on my side, that is, on the side of God. Do not speak of Jesus Christ, and yet set your desires on the world. Let not envy find a dwelling-place among you; nor even should I, when present with you, exhort you to it, be ye persuaded to listen to me, but rather give credit to those things which I now write to you. For though I am alive while I write to you, yet I am eager to die. My love has been crucified, and there is no fire in me desiring to be fed; but there is within me a water that liveth and speaketh, saying to me inwardly, Come to the Father. I have no delight in corruptible food, nor in the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, the heavenly bread, the bread of life, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became afterwards of the seed of David and Abraham; and I desire the drink of God, namely His blood, which is incorruptible love and eternal life.

 

[Church_Militant]

And about the bread and wine literally turning in Jesus… that is just plain stupid. Jesus spoke with metaphors all the time! You can’t take everything literally, and he even said “do this in commemoration for me.”

Frankly, I consider it “just plain stupid” to NOT believe in the Real Presence in the Eucharist. You have bought into a whole load of fundamentalist bunk by missing this one.
Here’s my best answer for this.
1st Corinthians 11:23-30

"23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread. 24 And giving thanks, broke, and said: Take ye, and eat: this is my body, which shall be delivered for you: this do for the commemoration of me. 25 In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me.

26 For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come. 27 Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord. 30 Therefore are there many infirm and weak among you, and many sleep. "

Now, how can one become guilty of the body and blood of the Lord IF THAT BODY AND BLOOD OF THE LORD IS NOT REALLY THERE? If I make a symbol of a person and then I decide to do bad things to that symbol. I may indeed be guilty of abusing that symbol, but am I guilty of his body and blood? Silly question…of course not! Why? BECAUSE THAT PERSON IS NOT REALLY PRESENT IN THAT SYMBOL is he? There is the whole case for why the Eucharist really is the presence of Our Lord Jesus Christ…body and blood, soul and divinity.
See the whole long thread here:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=40172

And we do too much to be saved. Is going to a priest any better than asking Christ for forgiveness? Is Mary really necessary for eternal salvation? How much exactly does it cost to get into Heaven? And wait… after all this, I’m still going to suffer for sins in Purgatory? What about Christ?

We do far too little to be saved…can we ever do enough for the One who died for us to redeem us?

The answer to all this is: How important is it to obey Christ? What does James 5:16 say Kyle? What does it say to do about sins? And if that isn’t enough, just what exactly does John 20:19-23 mean and why did Christ say it if He didn’t mean it? "Now when it was late that same day, the first of the week, and the doors were shut, where the disciples were gathered together, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them: Peace be to you. 20 And when he had said this, he shewed them his hands and his side. The disciples therefore were glad, when they saw the Lord.21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

It sure as Life Eternal isn’t in the Gospel “just for drill” Kyle!

cont’d

 

[Eden]

There have been Eucharistic miracles that occurred in the presence of doubters like this one:

abruzzomoliseheritagesociety.org/miraclelanciano.htm

The article concludes:

Scientific investigations have been taken place since 1574, with the following conclusions: the Flesh is real Flesh; the Blood is real Blood; the Flesh consists of the muscular tissue of the heart; and the Flesh and Blood have in them AB type blood, the same blood type found in the Holy Shroud of Turin.