The Apocrypha

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ashurie
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Ashurie said:
I googled apocrypha before and deuterocanonical is the same thing, I know that the books of Tobit and Judith are in them. 🙂
Click to expand...
Yes! If you are in RCIA, it is time to memorize their proper name: Deuterocanonical books, or “Second canon”. You can see a similarity to the Old Testament here: In the Old Testament book of Exodus (chapter 19 and following), there is given the first law of Moses. Later, there is the book of Deuteronomy, or the “second law” of Moses.

The difference here is that the Deuterocanon was used from the first days of the Christian Church, since all of the books are from the period belonging to the Old Testament. When Luther rebelled and declared the seven books “non-inspired”, the Church was forced into declaring them, for all time, as inspired books of scripture. Luther even included them in his bible, but recent protestant denominations have deleted them completely. 😦
 
That RCIA team at my parish actually hands out bibles and catechisms to all the catechumens and candidates. Although, this may be because we are a military parish and somehow have the money for it.

Also, apocrypha and deuterocanonical are not the same thing. The deuterocanonical books are the ones that the Catholic Church holds as part of the canon, but were are not in the Hebrew Bible. Apocrypha means hidden and indicates books completely outside the canon of the Bible. Some Protestants will refer to the deuterocanonical books as apocryphal, because they do not recognize them as part of the Bible.
 
kmbeck said:
That RCIA team at my parish actually hands out bibles and catechisms to all the catechumens and candidates. Although, this may be because we are a military parish and somehow have the money for it.

Also, apocrypha and deuterocanonical are not the same thing. The deuterocanonical books are the ones that the Catholic Church holds as part of the canon, but were are not in the Hebrew Bible. Apocrypha means hidden and indicates books completely outside the canon of the Bible. Some Protestants will refer to the deuterocanonical books as apocryphal, because they do not recognize them as part of the Bible.
Click to expand...
I have a Catechism…so I don’t have to worry about that. LOL

So…now I shouldn’t buy a Bible that says “apocryphal”, but says “deuterocanonical”?

Something tells me I should have waited until next Wednesday, when I officially start RCIA in my new parish. SO CONFUSING :o

Sorry LOL…this is doing my head in so much!
 
Ashurie said:
I have a Catechism…so I don’t have to worry about that. LOL

So…now I shouldn’t buy a Bible that says “apocryphal”, but says “deuterocanonical”?

Something tells me I should have waited until next Wednesday, when I officially start RCIA in my new parish. SO CONFUSING :o

Sorry LOL…this is doing my head in so much!
Click to expand...
The books you are looking for and will use are the deuterocanonical books. If they didn’t specifically tell you to show up with a Catholic Bible on the first day I would go ahead and wait until you start RCIA and discuss this with your team. They will make sure that you get the best Bible for you RCIA journey.
 
Ashurie said:
I have only found 4 out of 5 of those listed in the stores I visited, and STILL didn’t find them.
Douay Rheims version, I haven’t found at all in the stores I visited.

Just have to remember I am in Australia, not America LOL I have to think of conversion of currency and shipping. PLUS, if there are different translations available here.

Blah! That’s silly…then there should be Bibles that are equally published with and without the Apocrypha.
Click to expand...
Where in AU? If in a major city, the Cathedral might have a book shop. If not, someone at the Diocese might know where Catholic Bibles are sold.

Alternatively, there are inter-denominational “Apocrypha Bibles” such as the Oxford Study Bible, which are not published by the Catholic Church, but contain all the Catholic text; you might find this one at a university book store or by special order from a book seller in AU.

G’day and ICXC NIKA!:)🙂
 
Ashurie said:
I have a Catechism…so I don’t have to worry about that. LOL

So…now I shouldn’t buy a Bible that says “apocryphal”, but says “deuterocanonical”?

Something tells me I should have waited until next Wednesday, when I officially start RCIA in my new parish. SO CONFUSING :o

Sorry LOL…this is doing my head in so much!
Click to expand...
The RCC does not use the term apocrypha. However, some Bible versions, not put out by Catholic sources, but containing all of the texts, will be labelled “Apocrypha Bible.”

G’day and ICXC NIKA
 
Ashurie said:
I am in Australia, and it is so hard to find a Bible that contains the Apocrypha! It’s annoying, lol, how come it isn’t in the Bible to begin with? Even finding separate book of Apocrypha is not easy to find - if they exist.

Can someone enlighten a newbie? 😃
Click to expand...
Greetings from Adelaide!

The Central Catholic Bookshop, in Melbourne, will have a good selection of Catholic Bibles. It is a few years since I’ve been there, but it is a lovely bookstore and you should enjoy browsing there 🙂

322 Lonsdale St, Melbourne, VIC 3000 (03) 9639 0844

I also recall a nice Catholic bookstore opposite the Cathedral (on the other side from Fitzroy gardens).

Blessings for your journey!
 
We had to distingusih between the Deuterocanonical books (Tobith, Judith, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus=Jesus son of Sirach, Baruch, 1-2 Maccabees) which are part of the Septuaginta and the Catholic canon, but are missing from the Masoretic Jewish Bible and from the Protestant Canon;

and the Apocrypha which never were parts of the Bible, like the Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Judas, or e.g. the book of Henoch for the Old Testament.

I used to use this collection, earlychristianwritings.com/ without accepting their dating.

The Deuterocanonical books are in very Catholic collection, and there are part of the Canon. The Apocrypha are either acceptable from the Catholic point of view (like the Acts of Thomas, or the Infancy Gospel of James (Protoevengelium of James, the story of the childhood of the Blessed Virgin) . or explicitly against it, mostly gnostic (like the Gospel of Judas or the Pistis Sophia); or some are in between, most notably the Gospel of Thomas. .
 
My catechism…lol, I think they gave us a copy of the New Testament…near the end of the course.

I feel so cheated right now.

Anyway, Ashurie, things in this life are expensive. But God is priceless. So you have to make up your mind to get a Bible, one way or another. Think of how much money you’ve spent on occult stuff that you have no use for anymore. I still have my statues and books in my room. I put a cover over it. I cant stand to look at it but then i think, why can’t someone buy them? Why can’t they have some sort of program like they do for the guns here, in NYC? Collect my Pagan junk and give me a few bucks for it so I can buy things I need. I haven’t bought new clothes in over a year. I’ve been wearing the same funky sneakers for 5 years. But I had time to buy all that junk!

You buy a $50 Bible, and then you don’t have to buy anything else.

I intend to get some medals, scapulas and statues though. 😛
 
laszlo said:
We had to distingusih between the Deuterocanonical books (Tobith, Judith, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus=Jesus son of Sirach, Baruch, 1-2 Maccabees) which are part of the Septuaginta and the Catholic canon, but are missing from the Masoretic Jewish Bible and from the Protestant Canon;

and the Apocrypha which never were parts of the Bible, like the Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Judas, or e.g. the book of Henoch for the Old Testament.

I used to use this collection, earlychristianwritings.com/ without accepting their dating.

The Deuterocanonical books are in very Catholic collection, and there are part of the Canon. The Apocrypha are either acceptable from the Catholic point of view (like the Acts of Thomas, or the Infancy Gospel of James (Protoevengelium of James, the story of the childhood of the Blessed Virgin) . or explicitly against it, mostly gnostic (like the Gospel of Judas or the Pistis Sophia); or some are in between, most notably the Gospel of Thomas. .
Click to expand...
It gets even more fun!

Protestants refer to our 7 extra texts as apocrypha; hence the Apocrypha Bibles; while Catholics do not use this term of any text in the Bible.

Then there are other texts not accepted by either side, such as 1 Enoch, which the Protestants call “psuedoepigrapha” and the Catholics “apocrypha.”:)🙂
 
Since you are in Australia, teh Anglican terms will be most helpful to use. Oxford Univ. Press used to publish a separate “Apochrypha” that you ought to be able to check out from your university library. Of course, you can just read the books on line. The OUP version uses “Shakesperian” or “King James Version” type language.

When Anglicans refer to the Apochrypha, they usually mean the books of Tobit, Judith, Ezra, Ecclesiasticus and Maccabees. An Anglican priest once told me that the reason they were excuded from early English printed bibles was to reduce printing costs.
 
Ashurie said:
You know what? LOL

I have not seen a Bible that has either of them! And I went to two Christian bookstores today, in Melbourne…and looked at dozens of Bibles. LOL xDD

It should be clearer in bookstores, Catholic Bibles there, Protestant Bibles over there.

🤷 Would save all the confusion for us newbies xD
Click to expand...
“Christian” bookstores may not necessarily carry the Catholic Bible. At least in NA, the “Christian” designation has become almost a synonym for “Protestant.”

If it’s any consolation, George Orwell wrote about a similar situation in London 70 years ago. “The cheapest Roman Catholic Bible, 5 (shillings); the cheapest Protestant Bible, 1s; the Douay Version NOT stocked here”.

ICXC NIKA
 
the Catholic Church is active in Australia and presumably there is an English translation approved for liturgical use there, so the place to find that bible is in a bookstore attached to a parish, shrine or other Catholic venue, or on-line from any Catholic book vendor. The average mass market book store does not specialize in bibles and will have only a basic selection of its best sellers so not the best place to shop for religious material in any case.
 
GEddie said:
It gets even more fun!

Protestants refer to our 7 extra texts as apocrypha; hence the Apocrypha Bibles; while Catholics do not use this term of any text in the Bible.

Then there are other texts not accepted by either side, such as 1 Enoch, which the Protestants call “psuedoepigrapha” and the Catholics “apocrypha.”:)🙂
Click to expand...
If you consider in this way it is more complicated. The originak KJV Apocripha list contains Esdra 3-4, and the Prayer of Manasses also which are apocrypha in Catholic intrepretation

The term pseudoepigrapha was used by the Church Fathers referring books which are acceptable by Catholic point of view but not part of the accepted Scriptures, e.g for the New Testament because they were not written by eyewitnesses.
 
To Ashurie: It’s really not all so complicated as it sounds: just get a good, solid Catholic bible and you’re all set. The Revised Standard Version-Second Catholic Edition (RSV2CE), is a wonderful bible. Since coming into the Church at age 35, I have had zero interest in the writings that did not make it into the canon. There simply is so much depth in the faith that a single lifetime is completely insufficient to experience it all.

May God bless you on your journey.
 
Warrenton said:
Since you are in Australia, teh Anglican terms will be most helpful to use. Oxford Univ. Press used to publish a separate “Apochrypha” that you ought to be able to check out from your university library. Of course, you can just read the books on line. The OUP version uses “Shakesperian” or “King James Version” type language.

When Anglicans refer to the Apochrypha, they usually mean the books of Tobit, Judith, Ezra, Ecclesiasticus and Maccabees. An Anglican priest once told me that the reason they were excuded from early English printed bibles was to reduce printing costs.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I am (by birth and baptizim) Anglican, so that helps some what. I have searched “Apochrypha” on the shops I visited yesterday, on their online sites. They just don’t keep any in stock at all. Sad really.

I have seen the King James Version, LOL I look at it…and put it back down! LOL
po18guy said:
To Ashurie: It’s really not all so complicated as it sounds: just get a good, solid Catholic bible and you’re all set. The Revised Standard Version-Second Catholic Edition (RSV2CE), is a wonderful bible. Since coming into the Church at age 35, I have had zero interest in the writings that did not make it into the canon. There simply is so much depth in the faith that a single lifetime is completely insufficient to experience it all.

May God bless you on your journey.
Click to expand...
Thank you 🙂 it just gets confusing when everyone has different opinions with the translations, as I am only familiar with 3 versions. LOL So I am like just tell me what to look for and I will seek! XD I just want one where I can read with ease (no fancy language) and enjoy it, and deepen my faith. of Course 🙂
 
Do all of the Douay Rheims include the deterocanonical books? (No, I can’t spell) I see some Douay Rheims pocket Bibles and all they say on product description is that it has the Old and New Testaments, plus graphics and maps and stuff. I’d hate to order one and find it’s missing it.

Unless Douay Rheims consider those books to be part of Old Testament?
 
Dymphna82 said:
Do all of the Douay Rheims include the deterocanonical books? (No, I can’t spell) I see some Douay Rheims pocket Bibles and all they say on product description is that it has the Old and New Testaments, plus graphics and maps and stuff. I’d hate to order one and find it’s missing it.

Unless Douay Rheims consider those books to be part of Old Testament?
Click to expand...
Yes, the Douay-Rheims is a Catholic bible. The language is quite similar to the King James Version, but in a Catholic context and content. The D-R came out in 1609, the KJV in 1611.

As to spelling, just think of Deuteronomy and you have the hardest part of Deuterocanonical figured out.

Christ’s peace be with you.
 
Dymphna82 said:
It’s only going to be in a Catholic Bible.

Theres:
Douay Rheims
Revised Standard (RSV)
Revised Standard 2nd Edition
New American Bible (NAB)
Jerusalem Bible

Apocrypha isn’t included in all the Bibles because Protestants tend to reject those books and Catholics embrace them. I know that the readings in my church often come from Macabees, Baruch or Sirach, it really is a necessity to at least be able to read it somewhere.
Click to expand...
I have not read every post here but if you buy a Catholic Bible (Douay Rheims, New American, Jerusalem, New Jerusalem or the Catholic edition of the RSV or NRSV), the deuteros (Tobit, Wisdom, 1 Maccabees, 2 Maccabees, Judith, Sirach, Baruch) will just be included in the Old Testament section of the Bible - they won’t be segregated. If you buy any other version, the only way these books would be included would be in a third section of the bible called The Apocrypha, but this would probably also contain books NOT IN the Catholic Bible (like 3 Maccabees and 4 Maccabees).

Note that RSV and NRSV are not Catholic editions unless they have a “-CE” at the end of them (RSV-CE, NRSV-CE). They may still contain an Apocrypha section, but only the Catholic editions will have the deuteros mixed in with the Old testament in the traditional Catholic order.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top