The Ark of the Covenant in the New Testament

[LittleSoldier]

Funny, here I am defending Christ and your defending Mary. As far as I’m concerned, Jesus Christ is my Saviour, my one and only. The way to the Father is through Jesus.

Luv, aren’t we supposed to follow the teachings of Jesus? Aren’t we supposed to try to be as Christ-like as we can be? Aren’t we supposed to follow His example?

So - if Jesus loves His mother and honors her, as He was required to do as God-Incarnate on earth, as a good Jew following the Ten Commandments (and being God He would certainly love her immensely - probably much more than any of us could love and honor our mothers)…

Why is it wrong to do what Jesus did? To honor His mother as He did and as He still does? Did His honor of His mother somehow end when He was crucified? Certainly He still loves her in Heaven. And certainly He still honors her in Heaven. And He made her our mother while He was on the cross.

So shouldn’t we love and honor her, too? Isn’t that what being Christ-like is?

 

[Nicea325]

The trinity is all over the NT , may verses lead to it.The trinity was defined in 325 due to Constantines insistance, but before that it was believed by most, except of course gnostics.

The BVM history evolved.
431 Theotokos- I uncerstand she needed a title since Jesus was God and Man
1300 rosary
1508 Ave Maria approved
1850 Immaculate Conception
1950 Assumption
1965 Queen of Heaven.
the Ark of the Covenant
Mother Church
New Eve
Full of Grace
15 promises of the Rosary
Mediatrix- is that official??

The Trinity is implicit in Scripture,not explicit. The doctine was developed, ratified and made official and defined by the CHURCH,not the Bible. Your The BVM did not EVOLVE,but more it DEVELOPED. Did the doctrine of the Trinity t developed over time. Christ Incarnation? Should I go on? All developed over time as it was the course with Mary.

Quote:
Anything that is written after the NT is not to be taught , plan and simple. Read the very early church people they quote the NT .

So according to your standards it would also include the NT canon-right? Where is the term canon mentioned in the Bible? The NT canon was written and ratfied way after Christ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvtosew
The books of the NT were established by 170 Ad and closed.

CLOSED? Sources please confirming it a fact, the NT was closed by 170 A.D.

Answer this Chinese riddle: If it was closed by 170 A.D. then why did the church take nearly another 300 years to “officially” close it?

 

[LittleSoldier]

Also, I want to add a little disclaimer: I never said that the Bible was TOO hard to understand. * You *added that. :tsktsk:

Oh my! Just like adding that little word “alone.” And look at all the problems that has caused and is still causing.

:tsktsk:

 

[LittleSoldier]

I wasnt being sarcastic. At least that was not the intention.
I am responding to the fact that as soon as I say that the Bible is my source … Invariably the response (not just from you) is how can you know for sure … or… that we are not able to know if we are interpreting correctly/ slippery slope argument / pride comes before the fall … etc.
When I respond that I reallly honestly do have the same relationship with God that Brother Lawrence of the Ressurection knew and enjoyed … people dont respond … or just ignore or think, yeah right. … or just continue with the same thing they were saying up to that point, as if to say … so what… it hasnt helped you think straight. .

As for the rest. I have an appointment in Banks OR … long drive … will respond later…

I don’t know where Banks is but if I see you on the 101 I’ll wave!

 

[LittleSoldier]

The books of the NT were established by 170 Ad and closed. Those books authors were unclear and deicided to be non inspired. 3 John was also in question but they let it in, so its in the bible.

“They let in in?” Who is “they?”

 

[Luvtosew]

Luv, aren’t we supposed to follow the teachings of Jesus? Aren’t we supposed to try to be as Christ-like as we can be? Aren’t we supposed to follow His example?

So - if Jesus loves His mother and honors her, as He was required to do as God-Incarnate on earth, as a good Jew following the Ten Commandments (and being God He would certainly love her immensely - probably much more than any of us could love and honor our mothers)…

Why is it wrong to do what Jesus did? To honor His mother as He did and as He still does? Did His honor of His mother somehow end when He was crucified? Certainly He still loves her in Heaven. And certainly He still honors her in Heaven. And He made her our mother while He was on the cross.

So shouldn’t we love and honor her, too? Isn’t that what being Christ-like is?

Please don’t talk down to me. thank you. I will worship how I worship.

 

[Luvtosew]

“They let in in?” Who is “they?”

Follow the conversation.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Please don’t talk down to me. thank you. I will worship how I worship.

I am not talking down to you. I have far too much respect for you to talk down to you and I wouldn’t do it even if I didn’t have all that respect for you. I’m sorry you took my words as offensive - that was not my intent.

Please explain what I said that was “talking down to you.”

(Wow - that really hurts. I was just trying to explain why we love and honor Mary and I get smacked across the face. So much for Christian love and turning the other cheek.)

 

[Nicea325]

:
Originally Posted by 1voice
You can believe whatever you choose that is not in the Bible.
The burden of proof is with you. I have seen no convincing proof to support your claim.

Burden of proof? First show us where the Bible teaches: It must be in the Bible, if not it is false.

Show us where Scriptures teaches such a belief?

 

[Luvtosew]

The Trinity is implicit in Scripture,not explicit. The doctine was developed, ratified and made official and defined by the CHURCH,not the Bible. Your The BVM did not EVOLVE,but more it DEVELOPED. Did the doctrine of the Trinity t developed over time. Christ Incarnation? Should I go on? All developed over time as it was the course with Mary.

So according to your standards it would also include the NT canon-right? Where is the term canon mentioned in the Bible? The NT canon was written and ratfied way after Christ.

CLOSED? Sources please confirming it a fact, the NT was closed by 170 A.D.

Answer this Chinese riddle: If it was closed by 170 A.D. then why did the church take nearly another 300 years to “officially” close it?

Really Paul wrote his letters shortly after Christ, all he books in the NT were wrote before 100 Ad,
why the Church took anoher few hunderd years is a good question. Let me know when you find out.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Follow the conversation.

Side-step, or else you don’t know what you meant by “they.”

What did you mean by “they?”

 

[Nicea325]

Really Paul wrote his letters shortly after Christ, all he books in the NT were wrote before 100 Ad,
why the Church took anoher few hunderd years is a good question. Let me know when you find out.

Yes Paul wrote after Jesus…and? How does it prove the Bible-only? Paul wrote more 20 years later and how does that support your Bible-only position? It does not. Writing does not prove or equate into the Bible-only.

Nice dodge, here let me refresh your memory a bit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvtosew
The books of the NT were established by 170 Ad and closed.

Key word: CLOSED. Please provide the primary sources from the early church confirming the NT canon was closed by 170 A.D…and WHERE and under WHOSE AUTHORITY?

So please let us know since you apparently believe it as a fact.

BTW: Do not forget to show us the chapter and verse teaching: It must be said in the Bible or else it is not true.

 

[LittleSoldier]

I will get you some scriptures that point to the trinity. But no I have never seen Mary the way you do, May has never jumped off a page for me. Of course I grew up saying the Hail Mary. she was never more than the BVM to me. Actually I hate to say this, but when I see pics of her with a jeweled crown on and all decked out I cringe, and I cringe worst when I see pictures of her with a baby on her lap and yes even a lamb. Just hits a sore note with me. The way I see it Jesus is eternal , always was and always will be and Mary is a creation of God, Jesus before Mary, but I still think Mary is very special to Jesus of course, as our parents are to us. I do think Calvary was just horribly painful for her, as its a nightmare to even imagine. So I think she indured much pain for her position, and I’m sure she is of course very special in heaven, and happy, and right by Jesus.

Why are you sure she is happy in Heaven? She is persecuted and her Son is persecuted and hated by many. She has appeared and given us warnings - warnings that are mostly ignored.

Where in the Bible does it say that Mary is “very special in heaven, and happy, and right by Jesus”? Where does it say that Mary is in Heaven? Book, chapter, and verse please.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Please don’t talk down to me. thank you. I will worship how I worship.

I’d like to respond to this again. I never said or implied that you should worship Mary. I would say that you shouldn’t worship Mary because to do so would be wrong.

Did you think I was saying you should worship Mary? I’m wondering because I said nothing of the kind in my post.

 

[Luvtosew]

Why are you sure she is happy in Heaven? She is persecuted and her Son is persecuted and hated by many. She has appeared and given us warnings - warnings that are mostly ignored.

Where in the Bible does it say that Mary is “very special in heaven, and happy, and right by Jesus”?

The Bible doesn’t , gee maybe she isn’t. I’m sure if anyone is in heaven its her and all the babies and kids that have short lifes. Now whether she was assumed or not who knows.

Your right I imagine God is not too pleased with this world.

Well I don’t believe in the apparations so can’t comment on that.

 

[Luvtosew]

I’d like to respond to this again. I never said or implied that you should worship Mary. I would say that you shouldn’t worship Mary because to do so would be wrong.

Did you think I was saying you should worship Mary? I’m wondering because I said nothing of the kind in my post.

Well you said I don’t have respect or honor for her and I’ve posted that I do have respect for her, but not like some people. Jesus is my saviour and Mary was his earth mother.

 

[LittleSoldier]

The Bible doesn’t , gee maybe she isn’t. I’m sure if anyone is in heaven its her and all the babies and kids that have short lifes. Now whether she was assumed or not who knows.

Your right I imagine God is not too pleased with this world.

Well I don’t believe in the apparations so can’t comment on that.

Where in the Bible does it state that “all the babies and kids that have short lives” are in Heaven? Are you aware that the Church does not teach that that is true? The Church teaches that she does not know what happens to babies and kids that have short lives - at least the ones that are not baptised and that includes all the unborn children who have died through abortion or through natural causes, including two of my own children.

The Church doesn’t know and it isn’t in the Bible, either.

And it’s my understanding that even Catholics don’t have to believe in the apparitions and the alleged apparition at Medjugorje has not even been approved by the Church.

 

[Luvtosew]

Yes Paul wrote after Jesus…and? How does it prove the Bible-only? Paul wrote more 20 years later and how does that support your Bible-only position? It does not. Writing does not prove or equate into the Bible-only.

Nice dodge, here let me refresh your memory a bit:

Key word: CLOSED. Please provide the primary sources from the early church confirming the NT canon was closed by 170 A.D…and WHERE and under WHOSE AUTHORITY?

So please let us know since you apparently believe it as a fact.

BTW: Do not forget to show us the chapter and verse teaching: It must be said in the Bible or else it is not true.

Look at the Bible, that is what God wanted us to know, thats it . Muratorian Canon had all books except Hebrews, James, and 3 John by 170 AD

Clement metioned 8 NT books by 95 Ad
Ignatius mentioned 7 books by 115 AD
Polycarp mentioned 15 books by 108 Ad
Ireenaeus mentions 21 books by 185 Ad

why they didn’t close the canon till the council of Laodicea until 397 I don’t know, but no books or writings after the original appostles or assoc. with them before 100 Ad were added to the Bible, God made sure of that.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Well you said I don’t have respect or honor for her and I’ve posted that I do have respect for her, but not like some people. Jesus is my saviour and Mary was his earth mother.

Luv, I *NEVER *said that you don’t have respect or honor for Mary! Why would I say such a thing? I don’t even know you! But I do know that most Christians have respect for Mary and honor her.

I was simply trying to explain why *Catholics *love and honor Mary to the *extent * that we do - because she is not only the Mother of Jesus but our mother and we try to be Christ-like. I obviously was not successful in stating what I was trying to state. But I never meant it to be offensive.

Please read my post again. It was not meant to be any sort of accusation against you. I know what you’ve posted about Mary.

ADDENDUM: I’ve re-read my post and I can see how it was somewhat ambiguous. I apologize for not being more clear. Please read my disclaimer on my Wall - I have brain damage in the language processing area. I’m not very good at communication sometimes. I think I’m being clear but then it’s pointed out to me that I’m not. I am very sorry that you were offended. I didn’t mean it like that.

 

[Luvtosew]

Where in the Bible does it state that “all the babies and kids that have short lives” are in Heaven? Are you aware that the Church does not teach that that is true? The Church teaches that she does not know what happens to babies and kids that have short lives - at least the ones that are not baptised and that includes all the unborn children who have died through abortion or through natural causes, including two of my own children.

The Church doesn’t know and it isn’t in the Bible, either.

And it’s my understanding that even Catholics don’t have to believe in the apparitions and the alleged apparition at Medjugorje has not even been approved by the Church.

Yes I know what the RC teaches and for many years they taught limbo but in 2007 PBII said not sure about that. Very sorry you have lost two of your children, no parent should have to go through the lost of one child but two- I’m very sorry , but I believe they go to heaven, no purgatory, right to heaven, baptised or not, right into the arms of our Lord.