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concretecamper
Guest
Fulton Sheen had a great perspective on the wedding feast at Cana in his book “Life of Christ”.
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concretecamper
Guest
thanks for the perspective. A follow up would be that in my opinion the RCC is the most Christ centered but still has not lost any reverence due Mary. Could it be something more?
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Not from my perspective. Perhaps some of the other Lutherans here might have a different view, or additional information to add.
Jon
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Steveabrous
Guest
My neck of the woods is mainly Assemblies of god and Baptist. So, yeah, it’s the more fundamental type of Protestant. They don’t observe any feast days except Christmas and Easter, and they don’t call them feast days. Though I was raised Presbyterian.
I think there are probably more Catholics then Lutherans were I live. I haven’t had a lot of experience with Lutherans.
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Steveabrous
Guest
The RCIA inquiry sessions should be starting soon. In my parish they tell us to tell anyone who is interested in becoming Catholic or just want to learn more about our Faith. call the closest Catholic church and ask about it.
Also Catholic answers web site has a lot of information.
And the Knights of Columbus offer study courses on Catholicism geared towards non Catholics and it’s free
amm.org/chss/chss.asp, or www.morib.org
I don’t think there is a set amount. If you go to my church, or as Michael Voris puts it “The church of nice” your not going to hear about her that often. but if you go to the Latin mass you’ll probably her about her every Sunday.How often should Mary be mentioned?I don’t know and it depends on the preacher. One preacher mentioned her several times and cried when he talked about her at Jesus’ crucifixion. He said Protestants don’t honor Mary enough. I agree, but I can’t tell my pastor, or other preachers, to give more sermons about Mary.
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EvangelCatholic
Guest
Jon is correct in characterizing Lutherans in North America as scared to embrace our catholic piety. In Europe Lutherans name their churches in honor of the blessed Virgin [even using the term ‘Our Lady’]. Statues and shines dedicated to St Mary are found among Lutherans in Europe.
I am glad that U.S. Lutherans are beginning to accept that devotion to the Mother of God is centered in Christ and that praises of Mary only reflect the glory of God. There is even a new ELCA parish in Texas named after ‘Our Lady of Guadalupe’.
I am glad that U.S. Lutherans are beginning to accept that devotion to the Mother of God is centered in Christ and that praises of Mary only reflect the glory of God. There is even a new ELCA parish in Texas named after ‘Our Lady of Guadalupe’.
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SteveVH
Guest
Remember_Me, here are a few things to consider as to why we honor Mary and as to why most Protestants would not know how to honor her even if they wanted to.
We honor her because Mary is unique among all women and men as to her relationship with God. She is the daughter of the Father, the spouse of the Holy Spirit and the Mother of the Son. Who else can claim such an intimate relationship with each Person of the Trinity?
As if that is not enough to bring her honor, if she is the mother of Jesus then she is the mother of the Church, which is the Body of Christ, and therefore the mother of all who belong to the Body of Christ. We must honor her as we honor our earthly parents.
As to how we honor her, I think that you first must understand the Catholic doctrine of the “Communion of Saints”. Our God is the God of the living, not the dead. We believe that Mary, as well as all of the other saints, are very much alive in heaven and that we are not separated from them, but rather united with them as part of the mystical Body of Christ. We communicate with them through prayer; not in the sense of worshiping them, but in the sense of asking for their intercession, just as I might ask you to pray for me. In other words, we can have a very personal relationship with her. We can ask for her prayers on our behalf and we can thank her personally when those prayers are answered. We honor her by remembering and celebrating certain events in her life, such as yesterday when we celebrated her assumption into heaven.
Many non-Catholic Christians have the idea that if we honor Mary this is somehow taking away from our worship and love of Christ. Nothing could be further from the truth. When I celebrate the birthday of one of my children, for instance, am I taking away from the love I have for my wife or my other children? Of course not. We honor Christ by honoring his mother.
Peace.
Steve
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Doxiemom
Guest
I just don’t see where saying Mary is so ignored. Nor is she treated as “just Jesus’ mother”.
Whenever Scripture is sited and Mary is part of it, she is discussed appropriately. She is given respect. But that is where it ends.
Nothing is added. Since it is not in scripture, we do not devote sermons on her assumption into Heaven, her being co-anything, nor her various title (such as queen)
Mary was loved very much by her Son.
Whenever Scripture is sited and Mary is part of it, she is discussed appropriately. She is given respect. But that is where it ends.
Nothing is added. Since it is not in scripture, we do not devote sermons on her assumption into Heaven, her being co-anything, nor her various title (such as queen)
Mary was loved very much by her Son.
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EvangelCatholic
Guest
I think if a Christian does not ascribe to the Holy Theotokos [referring to Mary as the Mother of God] then there may be less devotion to the blessed Virgin. To separate Jesus from His Mother is impossible and it is only through Christ that we call Mary, Queen of Heaven who prays for the Church [per Augsburg Confession].
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Alizarin
Guest
many non-Catholics have less a problem with “Mother of God” (since biology and the Incarnation justify that title) than they do with say the language of de Monfort which, in its poetic phrasing, can appear to the non-Catholic to come dangerously close to heresy.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Remember Me,
Do you know anything about Catholic liturgy? It goes back 2,000 years and we celebrate consistency of faith that is proven through documentation and practice.
If you know how we worship God on Sundays, which is incredibly and vastly different from Protestant worship in its various forms, it will provide you a perspective on how we relate to Mary.
The other perspective to help us understand Mary better is the profound depth of our understanding of Jesus Christ from many perspectives, summarized in the Catholic Catechism along with the liturgy. If you understand the depth and vastness of how we understand Christ, how He is True God and True Man, within this you will come to study Mary.
Our knowledge of Christ continues to expand and deepen through the ages.
Subsequently, the third perspective is history. Mary was venerated even when she was alive. You look to early church history to find out how Mary was venerated further after she died, as well as how the early church venerated its martyrs and apostolic teachers.
The church calendar was developed and there were countless saints venerated many times on their feastdays, the days they passed on to the Lord. Within this history, after Mary’s passing to heavenly glory, this event triggered many cathedrals, churches, and chapels to built for the glory of the Lord based on Mary’s fidelity to God.
In this history, you begin to study the sharing of faith in being a Christian across the universal church in various cultures and peoples, and how with the many different charisms, you begin to see a universal pattern of faith and growth of spirituality and sanctity. In this study of spirituality, which we call asceticism, you come to likewise understand Mary’s spirituality in the sacred mysteries.
And with Mary and all the saints, in all their different charisms, authentic faith only can bear one fruit: Jesus Christ, All authentic spirituality leads to Jesus Christ. And within this spirituality, in the history of the saints, Mary was no common, ordinary woman.
Mary was singularly made by God the Father, she was redeemed by Christ and saved by Him in a most special manner at her conception. Again, she is not some ordinary woman so let’s dismiss her. We honor Mary in context to who she is in context to Christ and His mission in the Incarnation and redemption in salvation history…
If you do that, you are dismissing the profound greatness of Christ, and likewise His mother. She is much more than that.
The fourth perspective is that of linear time in understanding Mary. Our Church grew to not only understand Jesus Christ more and more, through our saints and theologians inthe context of their specific times but again, all of this reflected on our growing understanding of Mary.
The fourth perspective, in context that the Vatican Library is the greatest library in the world, is that it took the Church 1850 plus years to declare Mary conceived without sin.
And secondly, it took another 100 years to declare her glorious assumption into heaven by none other than Pope Pius XII, who saw the miracle of the sun 4 times in his pontificate while he was pondering the sacred mysteries of Mary’s life and passing.
Pope Pius XII used the word, ‘assumption’ – we as Church assume – because Mary was conceived without sin, and the wages of sin are death, that she was gloriously assumed into heaven. Whether she went to sleep or passed through death, is mystery.
The feast of the Transfiguration of Christ is August 6. This date marks the beginning of His coming divine ministry from heaven. In this time period in 1945, the atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima by the bomb named, ‘Trinity’. On that day, 8 Jesuit priests were miraculously protected from the atomic bomb and survived the blast with no trace of radiation. They said it was due to living out Mary’s request, the woman of the sun…at Fatima in 1917. Pope Pius the XII declared August 15 as her feast day and it also marked the end of WWII.
The nine days August 9 through August 15 are reflecting what awaits us if we persevere to the end in Jesus Christ – our future glorious assumption into glory with the Holy Trinity and the communion of saints – with Mary.
Do you know anything about Catholic liturgy? It goes back 2,000 years and we celebrate consistency of faith that is proven through documentation and practice.
If you know how we worship God on Sundays, which is incredibly and vastly different from Protestant worship in its various forms, it will provide you a perspective on how we relate to Mary.
The other perspective to help us understand Mary better is the profound depth of our understanding of Jesus Christ from many perspectives, summarized in the Catholic Catechism along with the liturgy. If you understand the depth and vastness of how we understand Christ, how He is True God and True Man, within this you will come to study Mary.
Our knowledge of Christ continues to expand and deepen through the ages.
Subsequently, the third perspective is history. Mary was venerated even when she was alive. You look to early church history to find out how Mary was venerated further after she died, as well as how the early church venerated its martyrs and apostolic teachers.
The church calendar was developed and there were countless saints venerated many times on their feastdays, the days they passed on to the Lord. Within this history, after Mary’s passing to heavenly glory, this event triggered many cathedrals, churches, and chapels to built for the glory of the Lord based on Mary’s fidelity to God.
In this history, you begin to study the sharing of faith in being a Christian across the universal church in various cultures and peoples, and how with the many different charisms, you begin to see a universal pattern of faith and growth of spirituality and sanctity. In this study of spirituality, which we call asceticism, you come to likewise understand Mary’s spirituality in the sacred mysteries.
And with Mary and all the saints, in all their different charisms, authentic faith only can bear one fruit: Jesus Christ, All authentic spirituality leads to Jesus Christ. And within this spirituality, in the history of the saints, Mary was no common, ordinary woman.
Mary was singularly made by God the Father, she was redeemed by Christ and saved by Him in a most special manner at her conception. Again, she is not some ordinary woman so let’s dismiss her. We honor Mary in context to who she is in context to Christ and His mission in the Incarnation and redemption in salvation history…
If you do that, you are dismissing the profound greatness of Christ, and likewise His mother. She is much more than that.
The fourth perspective is that of linear time in understanding Mary. Our Church grew to not only understand Jesus Christ more and more, through our saints and theologians inthe context of their specific times but again, all of this reflected on our growing understanding of Mary.
The fourth perspective, in context that the Vatican Library is the greatest library in the world, is that it took the Church 1850 plus years to declare Mary conceived without sin.
And secondly, it took another 100 years to declare her glorious assumption into heaven by none other than Pope Pius XII, who saw the miracle of the sun 4 times in his pontificate while he was pondering the sacred mysteries of Mary’s life and passing.
Pope Pius XII used the word, ‘assumption’ – we as Church assume – because Mary was conceived without sin, and the wages of sin are death, that she was gloriously assumed into heaven. Whether she went to sleep or passed through death, is mystery.
The feast of the Transfiguration of Christ is August 6. This date marks the beginning of His coming divine ministry from heaven. In this time period in 1945, the atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima by the bomb named, ‘Trinity’. On that day, 8 Jesuit priests were miraculously protected from the atomic bomb and survived the blast with no trace of radiation. They said it was due to living out Mary’s request, the woman of the sun…at Fatima in 1917. Pope Pius the XII declared August 15 as her feast day and it also marked the end of WWII.
The nine days August 9 through August 15 are reflecting what awaits us if we persevere to the end in Jesus Christ – our future glorious assumption into glory with the Holy Trinity and the communion of saints – with Mary.
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concretecamper
Guest
Such as…
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believerdoc
Guest
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Randy_Carson
Guest
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Alizarin
Guest
Such as… these excerpts from True Devotion to Mary:
*1. It was through the Blessed Virgin Mary that Jesus came into the world, and it is also through her that he must reign in the world.
- …the Blessed Virgin is all the more necessary for men to attain their final end. Consequently we must not place devotion to her on the same level as devotion to the other saints as if it were merely something optional.
- If devotion to the Blessed Virgin is necessary for all men simply to work out their salvation, it is even more necessary for those who are called to a special perfection.
- …To go to Jesus, we should go to Mary, our mediatrix of intercession.*
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concretecamper
Guest
OK…no heresy here. Nothing that even borders on heresy. What is so close to heresy?
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Alizarin
Guest
I thought it was obvious, but I’ll bold the text most Protestants would be wary of:
- It was through the Blessed Virgin Mary that Jesus came into the world, and it is also through her that he must reign in the world.* (as though He couldn’t reign on His own without her)*
- …the Blessed Virgin is all the more necessary for men to attain their final end. (Jesus never says Mary is necessary for salvation). Consequently we must not place devotion to her on the same level as devotion to the other saints as if it were merely something optional. (Devotion is mandated?)
- If devotion to the Blessed Virgin is necessary for all men simply to work out their salvation (Same problem as above), it is even more necessary for those who are called to a special perfection.
- …To go to Jesus, we should go to Mary, our mediatrix of intercession. (Can’t we go to jesus directly?)
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EvangelCatholic
Guest
I agree. Those quotes don’t fit well into my devotion to the blessed Mother of God.
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