The Baptism of Jesus

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Unfortuantely, the caliber of Catholic instruction available at the vast majority of parishes is overwhelmingly appalling. The lack of information is why it is so easy for people to leave the church. It is also why sites like this are able to provide an invaluable service, if people approach the “I read the Bible why do I need a church” argument with compassion and charity.The Bible is an immense work. It needs a community to pull everything out of it.

I left the church for a while, and am very happy to be back, but I would never had strayed if I knew more about the Bible’s history or even what a spiritual director was and that “normal people” can use them. And I went to a pretty decent Catholic schol until my parents moved us to the Bible belt in the beginning of eighth grade.

Too often, it has been my experience that scripture is read only as literature at mass, because the apologetic and other important aspects are left out of the homily.

My mother has never left the church, but she could not ever tell any of her children why anything is done the way it is or why she goes, except that “it is what you do.” And she has been Catholic all her life. Never touched the Bible, and thought reading it was something that only Protestants or heretics do.
 
But back to the point, I have wondered what John was saying when he was Baptising people, and why people were chosing to be baptised as it was not customary in Jewish law. Or maybe it was and is no more…
 
from what i understand, it WAS customary at the time to baptise - under jewish custom.

i figure john didn’t say ‘you brood of vipers’ to EVERYONE who came to be baptised… 🙂 does anyone have a good source on jewish baptism practices at the time of Christ?
 
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oudave:
I must tell you that it is not my wife who is ignorant, her eyes were opened to the truth by spending in the Word with God. You might try a lot of the same.
Dave
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Thanks for the charitable response. If you are spending anytime near the amount of hours a week studying the Bible that I do, it does not seem to have affected your Christian character in the least.
 
I once heard a deacon say that our Lord was baptized because it was necessary for Him to fulfill all righteousness (Matt. 3:15). Deut. 6:25 tells us that righteousness involves obedience to the law, and Christ was made “under the law.” (Gal. 4:4). The law of the Old Testament which Jesus was obeying concerns the ordination of priests (Exod. 29:1-9). Jesus was and is our High Priest (Heb. 3:1, 4:14, 5:5, 9:11).

In Jesus and Mary,
Fiat
 
Heartbroke,
Code: 
 Granted that you may not have read the bible as a Catholic but in all honesty that is not the fault of the Church but your own. I can honestly say that as a former Catholic that I believed that I was fooled by the Catholic church but now as a former Protestant who after studying the Bible was shown that Protestant communities are not as biblical as they claim to be. Look at all the different Denominations, they are separated by differing interpretations of the bible. Look at Jonh 17 and tell me where the unity is in Protestant churches, I did not find it. Every church I went too disagreed on everything from Baptism, Lords Supper, Marriage or no remarriage etc... the list goes on. If Protestantism is true then why are ther so many divisions among them. After all should not the Prayer of the most righteous Jesus Christ not be fullfilled as he prayed for unity? I did not find unity but division. Where is the Unity that Jesus Prayed for in Protestantism?
 After intense studying of not only the bible, but the early church fathers I knew that I had to rejoin the Church that Jesus Founded: The ONE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH ; You may say I do not need to be a part of a denomination and I will say AMEN brother that is why you need to Rejoin the Catholic Church because it is not a denomination but the CHURCH. Now you may disagree with me on this but that is a fact. You can not ignore what early church history has to say about Christianity i.e. The Catholic Church. I can honestly say that looking at the Book of Acts and Matt 16:18-20, and Matt 18:18 that the Church had to be around today (Matt 28:18-20). So where is that Church if you look at History. The Closest Protestant Church to the church in Acts is 1520's founded by Martin Luther. Only the Catholic Church can say it has been around since the day of Pentacost.
I knew that I had to return otherwise I was being disobediant to my Lord and Savior. You may have fallen in Love with Our Lord in the a Protestant Church just like I did, but guess what you do not know Our Lord like we Catholics know Our Lord in the Eucharist, your missing the true food that is Jesus Flesh and Blood. For Jesus Flesh and blood are life giving. Read John 6, Mark 14, Luke 22 and Matt 26 in all of the scriptures it mentions the Body and Blood of our Lord.  
Heartbroke, I know you love the Lord but He left a Church to nourish and guide you. The question is what is holding you back. IF you do not believe me just read the testimony of the church fathers or church history, That will tell you where you belong in the One Holy Catholic Church. Think about it. 
                                Peace of Christ be with you.
                                                  Lupe
 
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jeffreedy789:
i’m not sure how our discussion of the baptism of Jesus has turned into an argument on sola scriptura. i respectfully suggest that we start a new thread if we intend to debate sola scriptura (again), and please keep this thread focused on Jesus’s baptism.

any other insights on this? i was reading about it today, and i find the trinitarian aspect interesting. my brother pointed out that anytime you have a major teaching on a sacramental practice in scripture, you (almost?) always have a trinitarian aspect involved. this is expressed at His baptism by God the Father speaking from heaven, and then the Holy Spirit descending like a dove unto Jesus.

it’s interesting to note that Jesus would NOT have been baptised in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (in other words, John would not have said this as he baptised Him), yet He WAS baptised in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by virtue of their presence in His act.
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Those were good points and I apoligize for my participation in wandering off the original subject. I’d suggest post like this might be better placed under the “scruipture” forum to remind us the focus is not apolgetics.

Now back to our Catholic Bible study of the baptism of Jesus…

I really like the trinitarian tie from Jeff that I quoted. That’s really beautiful.
 
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oudave:
I must tell you that it is not my wife who is ignorant, her eyes were opened to the truth by spending in the Word with God. You might try a lot of the same.
Dave
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Wow! You sure have a nasty attitude for a Christian. Who are you to talk…your poor wife wasn’t knowlegeable about her faith and you are proud of the fact that you led her away from the original Christianity? She probably didn’t know what she was supposed to believe…just like a lot of the folks I run into from non-Catholic Churches who base their beliefs on what they think the Bible means and on what their preacher tells them it means. Hey I left the church for 34 years because I was too stupid to really pay attention to what was taught & preached to me day in and day out for 17 years. NOW I know the truth, I’m 'home" and nobody has yet been able to give me the slightest good reason to deny what I believe. I’m committed to the absolute truth and I refuse to follow some church founded by men that produces the lot of vicious anti-Catholic rhetoric that comes out from some (not all thanks be to God!) of their so-called Christians that wander in here.
http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/smile6.gif
 
ya, i think so, too. (i’m not being self-congratulatory - i didn’t come up with it!) i’m beginning to see it other places in scripture, now that i’m looking for it.

like, in another thread, we’re discussing the creation of the world, and how God said ‘let us make…’ the ‘us’ implies an addressee, and that addressee can be seen as the other members of the trinity. so even in creation can we see hints of the trinitarian formula.
 
Yes, Jeff, I see those trinity references in Genesis too, and that reminded me of Genesis 1:1-2 *In the beinning when God created the heavens and the earth, the earth was a formless void and darkenss covered the face of the deep while the Spiriit of God swept over the face of the waters. *

Back in the begining of creation, the Spriit hovered over the waters, just as the Spirit descended in the baptism of Jesus. And in Jesus, we become a new creation. God re-creates us in baptism to be what He originally intended for mankind.
 
ah - very nice. thanks for that insight. i was thinking, too, that we definitely see Jesus involved in creation, even outside of the ‘let us create…’ references, since john says that nothing was created without Jesus being the one creating it. (sorry, that was an awkward sentence.)

so we see the trinity there, too. God the Father speaking, God the spirit hovering over the waters, God the Son creating everything. it almost makes you wonder - when God said ‘let there be…’ did Jesus say ‘ok’ and make it?
 
Church Militant:
Wow! You sure have a nasty attitude for a Christian. Who are you to talk…your poor wife wasn’t knowlegeable about her faith and you are proud of the fact that you led her away from the original Christianity? She probably didn’t know what she was supposed to believe…just like a lot of the folks I run into from non-Catholic Churches who base their beliefs on what they think the Bible means and on what their preacher tells them it means. Hey I left the church for 34 years because I was too stupid to really pay attention to what was taught & preached to me day in and day out for 17 years. NOW I know the truth, I’m 'home" and nobody has yet been able to give me the slightest good reason to deny what I believe. I’m committed to the absolute truth and I refuse to follow some church founded by men that produces the lot of vicious anti-Catholic rhetoric that comes out from some (not all thanks be to God!) of their so-called Christians that wander in here.
http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/smile6.gif
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You call me nasty when it was you who called my wife ignorant.
Sorry but that doesnt sound real loving to me. My wife is very knowlegeable about the laws that the men of your church have set forth. I didnt lead her away from the catholic church, the word of God did, and for that I am greatful. I have gotten alot of responces from catholics saying we non-catholics base our beliefs on what WE think the Bible says. That’s because we dont sit around and wait for some high and mighty priest to tell us what to believe.
We instead go to the one and only High and Allmighty God.
There is nothing better for the sole than to spend real quiet times with God in the good book. The smily face sticking its tounge out
shows a real loving side as well. Have a great day.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon11.gif
 
hey yo. oudave. catch up here. we’re talking about the baptism of Jesus. let’s let the argument go, ok? you’re starting to wax blatantly and egregiously anticatholic. let’s talk about the subject, ok?
 
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oudave:
I have gotten alot of responces from catholics saying we non-catholics base our beliefs on what WE think the Bible says. That’s because we dont sit around and wait for some high and mighty priest to tell us what to believe…http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon11.gif
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Oudave, this thread began with Catholic Dude asking some questions about the baptism of Jesus. Some Catholics have attempted to discuss the Bible using this form as sort of Bible study. We didn’t run to the nearest priest for an explaination–we opened the Word of God, just like you suggest we should do. Perhaps a few more Catholics could study the Bible if you didn’t keep interupting us. And if you are so sure that the Word of God speaks directly to us through the Bible alone, then you may want to stands aside and watch God do His stuff! We’re here because we love God too. Thank you again for your concern for our salvation, but your concern for our salvation is getting in the way of our study of the Bible.
 
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mtr01:
All I can say is :bigyikes:. You claim to follow strictly the Bible and the words of Jesus, yet you consistently go against his teaching!

Then why don’t you heed Jesus’s own words:
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You don’t pray to the Father or the Holy Spirit? Might I remind you of Jesus’s instructions again?

My friend in Christ, it appears to me that the heresy of sola scriptura has led you astray. Unfortunately, the result is that your novel interpretations are quite suspect and your credibilty suffers as a result. Based on this, I don’t see how you can seriously expect any of us to lend any weight to your position on this matter. With all sincere charity, I suggest that you reexamine your convictions and come back to Christ’s flock…the one, true Church He Himself founded.

I find it amazing that when a person puts his faith in the written word of God that someone would actualy call it heresy., I guess thats what happens when you put your faith in men.
 
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oudave:
I find it amazing that when a person puts his faith in the written word of God that someone would actualy call it heresy., I guess thats what happens when you put your faith in men.
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Amen brother!

Let the blind see, and let the deaf hear!
 
is anyone going to talk about the baptism of Jesus, or should i just stop checking this thread?
 
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oudave:
AMEN Heartbroke
It is amazing what happens when one puts his total faith in God and His Word. Funny thing that when you talk to a former catholic about why they are no longer a catholic it is because they started to study the Bible. Jn 8:32.
In Him, Dave.
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Hmmm. Dave, being non Catholic perhaps you aren’t aware that the Catholic Church uses a Lectionary, which is a schedule of readings of Scripture which insures that every word of the Word is read and discussed, that’s every part of Scripture, not just our favorites or those taken out of context. The Church publishes these lectionaries, the one I follow uses a three year cycle, which means in a three year cycle I read ALL of the Word of God, again, not just my favorite parts, or parts that reinforce my position. But as a good, (I hope), Christian, I am always eager to find others ideas on reading and following ALL of the Scriptures, so please, share with us all your either personal or churches schedule which insures ALL of the Word of God is read and followed.
 
The readings for this Sunday are:

First Reading Isaiah 42 1-4, 6-7
Second Reading Acts 10:34-38
Gospel:Matthew 3:13-17

For all hoping to learn about the baptism of Jesus, have no fear! This Sunday we celebrate the Baptism of Jesus. I went to a women’s study group yesterday and realized this when we discussed this Sunday Bible readings. Thanks to some of you for your insights that I shared.

If you haven’t prayed for the people who have been reading and writing these post yet, please stop for a moment and pray now.
 
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