The Baptism of Jesus

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oudave:
I find it amazing that when a person puts his faith in the written word of God that someone would actualy call it heresy., I guess thats what happens when you put your faith in men.
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Dave,
20Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation.
How do you reconcile this scripture, after all is that not what you are doing when you interpret it to mean that Baptism is by getting dunked. So how do you reconcile this. YOu can say that you are led by the Holy Spirit, but apparently so are JW’s who interpret scripture and do not believe in the Trinity. How about the people that do not believe in the Trinity like unitarians. Please explain?
 
Funny thing is, the ex-Protestants I know say they became Catholic after studying the bible.
 
guess it helps if they know about the real Bible and not only the abridged version!
 
Théodred:
Funny thing is, the ex-Protestants I know say they became Catholic after studying the bible.
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I am one those that studied the bible and well I also started to read about the early Church. 😃
 
I know what i am about to say might be an outrage, but i think i found some answers to my questions. now Jeff was the first to mention it in the 4th? post. The punch line is that oudave and heartbroke might have posted a thing or two that “helped” me. but only a tad. it comes after my last post. When the Mighty Fidelis came in and quoted from the CCC. he pretty much said what could be said. for those who dont accept the CCC it provided the area of scripture.
Lk 3:3-14

lesson: when Catholic Dude has a question see the CCC first.
 
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jeffreedy789:
hey yo. oudave. catch up here. we’re talking about the baptism of Jesus. let’s let the argument go, ok? you’re starting to wax blatantly and egregiously anticatholic. let’s talk about the subject, ok?
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Sorry
I’m not blatantly anticatholic, I’m blatantly anticatholic church because it is leading so many astray. I do say this in Love, my wife is a former catholic and it is something that weighs on her heart as well. 2Tim 3:16
 
Dave, something you forgett is that everything the Catholic church teaches was starteted by a man more than 2000 years ago and his name is not Peter, his name was Jesus Christ. The Bible is an inspired word of God,that can not be wrong, and Jesus and God are one in the same, therefore the church he started could not be wrong.
 
From today’s Office of Readings:

The mystery of the Lord’s baptism
(St. Maximus of Turin, Bishop ca. 380-ca. 485)

At Christmas [Jesus] was born a man; today he is reborn sacramentally. Then he was born from the Virgin; today he is born in mystery. When he was born a man, his mother Mary held him close to her heart; when he is born in mystery, God the Father embraces him with his voice when he says: this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased: listen to him. The mother caresses the tender baby on her lap; the Father serves his Son by his loving testimony. The mother holds the child for the Magi to adore; the Father reveals that his Son is to be worshiped by all the nations.

That is why the Lord Jesus went to the river for baptism, that is why he wanted his holy body to be washed with Jordan’s water.

Someone might ask, “Why would a holy man desire baptism?” Listen to the answer: Christ is baptized, not to be made holy by the water, but to make the water holy, and by his cleansing to purify the waters which he touched. For the consecration of Christ involves a more significant consecration of the water.

For when the Savior is washed all water for our baptism is made clean, purified at its source for the dispensing of baptismal grace to the people of future ages. Christ is the first to be baptized, then, so that Christians will follow after him with confidence.

I understand the mystery as this. The column of fire went before the sons of Israel through the Red sea so they could follow on their brave journey; the column went first through the waters to prepare a path for those who followed. As the apostle Paul said, what was accomplished then was the mystery of baptism. Clearly it was baptism in a certain sense when the cloud was covering the people and bringing them through the water.

But Christ the Lord does all these things: in the column of fire he wnt through the sea before the sons of Israel; so now, in the column of his body, he goes through baptism before the Christian people. At the time of the Exodus the column provided light for the people who followed; now it gives light to the hearts of believers. Then it made a firm pathway through the waters; now it strengthens the footsteps of faith in the bath of baptism.
 
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mercygate:
From today’s Office of Readings:

The mystery of the Lord’s baptism
(St. Maximus of Turin, Bishop ca. 380-ca. 485)

At Christmas [Jesus] was born a man; today he is reborn sacramentally. Then he was born from the Virgin; today he is born in mystery. When he was born a man, his mother Mary held him close to her heart; when he is born in mystery, God the Father embraces him with his voice when he says: this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased: listen to him. The mother caresses the tender baby on her lap; the Father serves his Son by his loving testimony. The mother holds the child for the Magi to adore; the Father reveals that his Son is to be worshiped by all the nations.

That is why the Lord Jesus went to the river for baptism, that is why he wanted his holy body to be washed with Jordan’s water.

Someone might ask, “Why would a holy man desire baptism?” Listen to the answer: Christ is baptized, not to be made holy by the water, but to make the water holy, and by his cleansing to purify the waters which he touched. For the consecration of Christ involves a more significant consecration of the water.

For when the Savior is washed all water for our baptism is made clean, purified at its source for the dispensing of baptismal grace to the people of future ages. Christ is the first to be baptized, then, so that Christians will follow after him with confidence.

I understand the mystery as this. The column of fire went before the sons of Israel through the Red sea so they could follow on their brave journey; the column went first through the waters to prepare a path for those who followed. As the apostle Paul said, what was accomplished then was the mystery of baptism. Clearly it was baptism in a certain sense when the cloud was covering the people and bringing them through the water.

But Christ the Lord does all these things: in the column of fire he wnt through the sea before the sons of Israel; so now, in the column of his body, he goes through baptism before the Christian people. At the time of the Exodus the column provided light for the people who followed; now it gives light to the hearts of believers. Then it made a firm pathway through the waters; now it strengthens the footsteps of faith in the bath of baptism.
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Mercygate, that reached deep into the heart and salvation history as well. Kudos!

I especially like :

I understand the mystery as this. The column of fire went before the sons of Israel through the Red sea so they could follow on their brave journey; the column went first through the waters to prepare a path for those who followed. As the apostle Paul said, what was accomplished then was the mystery of baptism.

To which I add:

Matt:2 2-3

2 As it is written in Isaias the prophet: Behold I send my angel before thy face, who shall prepare the way before thee. 3 A voice of one crying in the desert: Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight his paths.
 
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oudave:
You call me nasty when it was you who called my wife ignorant.
Sorry but that doesnt sound real loving to me. . The smily face sticking its tounge out
shows a real loving side as well. Have a great day.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon11.gif
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Hey …I never said your poor dear wife was “ignorant”…YOU just said that… I mean what I said, If she had known (as I do now) the differences between the doctrines of men that you espouse, as opposed to the TRUTHS of REAL Christianity that are both Biblical and traditional, she would still be Catholic. Look Bub…I TRIED your religion and I have spent the best part of my life in churches like yours. they misled me and taught me things that were NOT the same as the NT Christians…no matter what you or any other non-Catholic says…the stuff you preach does NOT go all the way back to the early church and sometimes I really think that some of you won’t listen because of your egos or the careers you’ve made of being preachers.

Look…I haven’t been nasty to you. You just can’t take any attempt to inject some humor into a discussion. You come in here telling us what we supposedly believe (totally in error, I might add) and with some cute remarks and stuff like “sorry if the truth hurts”…what’s with you? Do you think any of us are gonna abandon 2,000 years of real Christianity that includes the miracle of the Eucharist and join a church full of rantin’ ravin’ anti-Catholics that haven’t got the first real clue what Catholicism is and bad mouth it?
Please…you have to be kiddin’ me…

You tell us that we follow the teachings of men…yet you come in here spouting stuff that someone else (Who isn’t even a devout Catholic) TOLD you we believe, so you feel like you gotta "evangelize "us…“get us saved”. Man I BEEN there and THAT"S why I’m Catholic now…now and forever.

Hey I’m sorry if you can’t take the same level of cuteness that you hand out, but you really need to think about all this. There’s not a blessed soul in this forum who is moved by your arguments…and it’s a drag to talk to you because you flat refuse to really listen…you discount every source we give you…where’s that get us…nowhere.

I have a great many non-Catholic friends and some that were A/C are now studying to enter the church… not because of allegations and heated arguments…but because of rational, polite and reasonable discussion of all the sources. There is a great deal more to Christianity than you have going on oudave. when a man is full of good things (like the truth)…who wants to be fed something else?

May the Lord bless you and keep you. May he make His face to shine upon you and may He grant you peace
 
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oudave:
AMEN Heartbroke
It is amazing what happens when one puts his total faith in God and His Word. Funny thing that when you talk to a former catholic about why they are no longer a catholic it is because they started to study the Bible. Jn 8:32.
In Him, Dave.
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crybabies…no sense of humor :crying:
 
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Gabe:
Dave, something you forgett is that everything the Catholic church teaches was starteted by a man more than 2000 years ago and his name is not Peter, his name was Jesus Christ. The Bible is an inspired word of God,that can not be wrong, and Jesus and God are one in the same, therefore the church he started could not be wrong.
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I am not forgetting who started the church. The point I am making is that the catholic church has added and taken away many things from the church Christ started. Catholic means Universal, For some reason catholics think that the word ‘‘catholic’’ means they are infalable, for instance the pope or the church. I cannot take communion in your church, why?. I have asked the Lord into my heart, been baptized and he has blessed me and my family in so many ways. You can take communion in my church because if you have Christ in your life, you are in Christ’s family. I do not intend this to sound mean but it seems that if you dont belong the church country club, you cant take part.
In Him, Dave http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon11.gif
 
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oudave:
Sure they did
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. . . become Catholic after reading the Bible? Happens every day. You will be reading the Gospels and you’ll come across John 6, John 20:23, or Mt 16:18, and suddenly the bottom drops out of your stomach, and you think to yourself: what if this means exactly what Jesus is saying? And then you learn some small thing about what the Catholic Church really teaches (like that we don’t believe in “works righteousness,”) that totally contradicts what you learned in your Bible class . . . And drop by drop you have to give up the myths and lies you have believed about the Church.

Ask me. Talk to the Coming Home Network. They deal with this every day.
 
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oudave:
Sure they did
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Here is a scripture that summarizes the actions of disciples that left Jesus because He was teaching something that was too difficult for them to hear. A teaching that they heard before yet Christ taught it in a literal way this time. The scripture expresses this literal enterpretation by repeating the word Truly twice. Truly, truly I say unto you. The interesting element is best not prefaced so I will just post the scripture.

John:6-66

From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
 
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oudave:
… I cannot take communion in your church, why?.. You can take communion in my church because if you have Christ in your life, you are in Christ’s family. I do not intend this to sound mean but it seems that if you dont belong the church country club, you cant take part.
In Him, Dave http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon11.gif
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the problem in this situation is a misunderstanding of what communion is to us as Catholics and what it is to you. for example you would call our “version” of baptism incorrect because we do that sprikling stuff to tots instead of a full submersion and being at the mature level to understand what Baptism means. the same principal applies here with communion…you dont accept what communion means to us so it would not be right in partaking in it. at the same time Catholics are not to be taking Communion at your church for the same reason. one way to look at this is at a group like the JW’s, we both know that these guys dont even come close to understanding the Bible or basic Christianity, so we should not take part in important matters such as Communion and Baptism. Now the divide between Prot/Cath is not as big but the same concept should apply.
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oudave:
I have asked the Lord into my heart, been baptized and he has blessed me and my family in so many ways.
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the NT is very clear on this point and Catholics firmly believe that anyone who does the will of God, no matter how big or small, will be rewarded many times over.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Théodred
Funny thing is, the ex-Protestants I know say they became Catholic after studying the bible.
Sure they did
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from oudave

Yeah…as a matter of sheer fact…I did too. I checked (and still do!!!) everything that I read and heard about Catholicism against the Bible and it proved dead on accurate all the way. All the Non-Catholic churches I went to “read around” all the obviously Catholic parts of the NT and never preached about them. I’d read arouund them too, because they are so clear and at that time I didn’t have the guts to question, because I’d just get the same old rhetorical answers that I see on here…get told I’m a heretic…goin’ to hell…and all the rest. If the Bible is true, then it’s ALL true, not just the parts that Prots and other non-Cats can spiritualize and explain away. There’s diddly support for the Pre-trib, mid-trib, post trip “rapture” (just for instance)…and in fact, despite all the publicity and movies and books and mad paranoia…the whole teaching is less than 200 years old. It came over from England in the Scofield Reference Bible and now the folks who preach it act like it’s NT doctrine…but it’s not…there’s absolutely NO historical evidence that the early church believed what is taught today as “the rapture”. If they had, surely someone would’ve written about it, but that’s just NOT the case. Of course…this IS off topic…
Pax vobiscum
 
I cannot take communion in your church, why?
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Perhaps calling yourself an anti-Catholic has something to do with it?

Its for your own good. 1 Cor 11:28-29 Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.

If we were to allow you or anyone else to recieve the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ without first doing our part to ensure that you or anyone else realized and believed that the Eucharist is exactly that, we would be jeopardizing souls. That would be horribly uncharitable.
 
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