The Book Which is Most being read:Qur'an

[zamyrabyrd]

Yes, and we as Christians (especially as Catholics) are supposed to accept what is true from other religions and deny what is false. Who said I didn’t read the Koran? Most of my religious discussions are with a Muslim so I would think it would be useful to at least have some knowledge of it. Oh you used the word “Allah” I know it’s just Arabic for “God” (Maronites and Melkites use it) but here’s a fair warning: People that don’t know any Arabic may attack you for using that word. (Alla in Maltese, come to think of it). There are MANY things in the Koran that are beautiful and true. However, that doesn’t excuse what we Christians believe to be false and repugnant in that religion. True, Al-Qaeda and ISIL don’t represent all Muslims, just as the Westboro Baptist church doesn’t represent all Christians, but this is, for better or for worse, what we thing of when we think of Islam in the West. “The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their desserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.”

The Christian Arabs I am acquainted with use Allah for God and Rab for Lord. Rab of course is similar to Rav (Rabbi) in Hebrew. The context of the 7th century Middle East should be considered as well as the world of the ancient Israelites as sheep herders and later as city dwellers.

 

[WT1]

You do not know the exact story. Muhammad did reject woman to be stoned many times but woman insisted on punisment to applied. Woman was Jews so according thier scripture the punisment was to be stoned.

If Muhammad is less mentioned than other prophets in Qur’an that demonstrate that Qur’an was revealed by God but not from desire of Muhammad.

Muhammad performed more than 1000 miracles.

Muhammad promote faith, love, justice, mercy, forgiveness … Muhammad has the most high moral values on the world.

The Quran does not identify even one miracle attributed to Mohammad and that fact is confirmed by most Islamic historians.

 

[Kaninchen]

Oh i didn’t know! - was never really a big participant in the whole “Creationism vs. Evolution” debates that seem to have gripped the decade of the '00s… too busy slaving away in the lab.

As have we all in our way

Discussing evolution hasn’t ever been an interest of mine either and, since I’m not an American, it’s not part of my social milieu. I’ve just noticed things as time has gone by.

The idea that even serious creationists cringe at some arguments put forward seems rather satisfying in some ways, though.

 

[abucs]

I think the word Creationist is a bit of a misnomer. I am a Creationist in the sense that i think our reality was Created from intelligence which i think should be the common sense definition of the word.

Perhaps a better, though not entirely satisfactory description of what people mean by Creationist is anti-evolutionist?

 

[hasantas]

I think the word Creationist is a bit of a misnomer. I am a Creationist in the sense that i think our reality was Created from intelligence which i think should be the common sense definition of the word.

Perhaps a better, though not entirely satisfactory description of what people mean by Creationist is anti-evolutionist?

I am anti-evolution in that way: A very minimal cell cannot be exist by atoms gathering randomly by themselves without wisdom and power of God… Here the period of time is not importand. Just think in that way. There are all stuff and matters enough in nature for a building. Let’s assume we had wait for millions of years. After (so enough long period of time) that will we see a building like our houses? Not a building even we will not see that some stones had came on the each others in order as in a wall. Now the bodies of alives is more complex than a building. Almost all elements are used for structure of a body. Those elements are not composed as measureless but by very fine tuning. Could we think that all elements in order and in so measured deals compose by randomly and unconscious and blind natural forces and matters? One of the smallest compounds is the amino acids. Others structures is composed by such compound amino acids. Amino acids itself is very complex yet they gathered to compose other structures in more complex ways. And there are countless(to point excess) levels of that composing for a body. Could that all measured actions be by chances or by unconscious stuffs and forces?

Now someone may say there are natural laws and DNA etc. But notice that non of matters such forces, pressures, DNA has no mind and wisdom. Those cannot decide to make something. Energy has no life and conscious. Think in that way. Computer run by electric energy and computer can work out many complex process. Computers do all that operations by softwares. Computer could not decide to start or stop if it is not in software. But human can. Because human has a soul which got life, mind, senses. The energy in body is a different sort but yet it has no conscious and life and mind. All energy come from sun and it is transformed and deposited in such ATP molecules in body. There is no life and mind in sun’s energy! After death(the soul get out of body) nothing can animate body any more by any sort of energy. After death body do not animate again supporting blood circulation by a machine. Because giver of life take the soul back.

Someone try to reject God by actions of God! God is “Hakim”. That means God act through laws and means. There is no any action without a reason/cause except creating it firstly. Some people name these God’s laws just as physical, chemical, natural etc and then called that science and later say everything is happened through scientific laws! But for evolution they got out of science and they assume evrything happens through random changes. There is no random law! All universe with all galaxies are in very perfect union and order. There is no randomly anything in universe!

That was the first part of evolution which I do not believe in. I say “belief” because there is no any reason to believe but except a will to reject God. The second part of evolution is that everything get development. Human start from a zygot and get evolution until being a man or human. But human do not transform to a different genus. The charasteristics of the oldest human in fossile is the same with the present. That is valid for every genus on the world. The fossiles cannot show freak intermediate forms. Adam was exact same with human of present.

 

[hasantas]

The Quran does not identify even one miracle attributed to Mohammad and that fact is confirmed by most Islamic historians.

1-The Hour has come near, and the moon has split [in two].

2-And if they see a miracle, they turn away and say, “Passing magic.”

3-And they denied and followed their inclinations. But for every matter is a [time of] settlement. Al-Qamar(54)

Muhammad did split the moon in two by a finger. That is a big miracle.

1-Exalted is He who took His Servant by night from al-Masjid al-Haram to al-Masjid al-Aqsa, whose surroundings We have blessed, to show him of Our signs. Indeed, He is the Hearing, the Seeing. Al-Isra(17).

Muhammad went to Jerusalem in a very short time of night. And from there Muhammad did ascend to heavens(Miraj). Muhammad ascend until (Kab kavsayn) where nobody could reach include Holy Spirit.

 

[hasantas]

The bible is read and prayed at every Mass which is prayed every hour of every day all around the world except on Good Friday. There are over 1 billion Catholics in the world and over 2.2 billion Christians all told.

But regardless of numbers, the Quran lacks the most important thing to make it the Word of God…it isn’t about Jesus.

Torah was not about Jesus!

 

[hasantas]

Some Muslims seem to also take Bible verses and try to prove their view. Why can’t they depend on the Quran alone? How does that work?

MJ

Muslims believe that the original of Bible is from God(revelation). And Bible(Injil) is mentioned many times in Qur’an to be true scripture from God.

 

[hasantas]

Have you done much reading from non-Muslim historical scholars about Muhammad’s actions? Needless to say, without violating board rules, most of the world would not agree that Muhammad “has the most high moral values on the world.”

Yes. I know what you mean. The most awfull aspersions for Muhammad are about marriages and wars. Muhammad is the most high moraly perfect human in that issues. God advise the marriages to prevent adultery and marriages of Muhammad was not because of lust. One issue is about Aisha. But Aisha was already engaged with another man before getting married with prophet. That demonstrate that Aisha was old enough to get maried. That issue is because of problem in relating Hadiths. And Just think in that way that Muhammad had never commited adultery before maried Khadija and until about 55 years before marriages. If Muhammad were lustful He would commit that when He was biological young. And if people had realised such thing they would judge prophet. Because believers ask every deatils life of muhammad even the issues with His marriages. Anyhow people think how can a prophet get married? Do they not know that the some previous prophets had more wives?

On the other hand Muhammad had never lied. He was called “Muhammad-al Amin”. He had never betrayal. He was most loyal. He was most faithful. He was most brave. He was most merciful. Muhammad did not damn His Ummah(followers) because of their faults. Some previous prophets were used to do. He loved kids. He was most fair. He was the most bountiful. He had never said “no” when someone want from Him. He was the most gentle. He was the most forgiving. Shortly He had all good attributes as moraly.

But someone will always asperse Him!

 

[WJeffrey]

I was not aware that Mohammad split the moon in two. Did he ever repair it? If not, what did he do with the other half of the moon?

What was the reason that he split the moon in two? I can’t think of a reason why a person would want to split the moon into two.

 

[Cheiron]

1-The Hour has come near, and the moon has split [in two].

2-And if they see a miracle, they turn away and say, “Passing magic.”

3-And they denied and followed their inclinations. But for every matter is a [time of] settlement. Al-Qamar(54)

Muhammad did split the moon in two by a finger. That is a big miracle.

1-Exalted is He who took His Servant by night from al-Masjid al-Haram to al-Masjid al-Aqsa, whose surroundings We have blessed, to show him of Our signs. Indeed, He is the Hearing, the Seeing. Al-Isra(17).

Muhammad went to Jerusalem in a very short time of night. And from there Muhammad did ascend to heavens(Miraj). Muhammad ascend until (Kab kavsayn) where nobody could reach include Holy Spirit.

How could you say, as you have done in the very first post of this thread, that the Qu’ran teaches science, when you know very well that there is no evidence whatsoever that the moon was split in two? And why did you not answer my objections to the question I raised about mountians earlier? Why do you still follow the Qu’ran when you yourself said that nobody would follow it if there appeared any mistakes in it? I have pointed out several mistakes and you still claim to be a muslim.

I’m simply asking you to be consistent and to follow your own religious doctrine. Either you refute the problems brought before you or you acknowledge that these problems can’t be solved by the Qu’ran, that the Qu’ran is therefore wrong and you stop being a muslim.

Or, the third option, you should stop saying that the Qu’ran has anything to do with science. Following your own logic, I don’t see how you’ve got any other option left.

 

[hasantas]

I was not aware that Mohammad split the moon in two. Did he ever repair it? If not, what did he do with the other half of the moon?

What was the reason that he split the moon in two? I can’t think of a reason why a person would want to split the moon into two.

It was a miracle to demonstrate that He was messenger of God. that case was for a short time. I had seen some photos of moon which point that split.

 

[hasantas]

How could you say, as you have done in the very first post of this thread, that the Qu’ran teaches science, when you know very well that there is no evidence whatsoever that the moon was split in two? And why did you not answer my objections to the question I raised about mountians earlier? Why do you still follow the Qu’ran when you yourself said that nobody would follow it if there appeared any mistakes in it? I have pointed out several mistakes and you still claim to be a muslim.

I’m simply asking you to be consistent and to follow your own religious doctrine. Either you refute the problems brought before you or you acknowledge that these problems can’t be solved by the Qu’ran, that the Qu’ran is therefore wrong and you stop being a muslim.

Or, the third option, you should stop saying that the Qu’ran has anything to do with science. Following your own logic, I don’t see how you’ve got any other option left.

And you did not disprove what I wrote but just your thoughts!

 

[KildareBrigid]

It was a miracle to demonstrate that He was messenger of God. that case was for a short time. I had seen some photos of moon which point that split.

Can you expand on this please? What photos are you referring to? Thank you.

 

[Reuben_J]

Muslims believe that the original of Bible is from God(revelation). And Bible(Injil) is mentioned many times in Qur’an to be true scripture from God.

The Injil referred to in the Quran was the Gospels, not the Bible.

 

[hasantas]

The Injil referred to in the Quran was the Gospels, not the Bible.

Injil is the revelation which came to Jesus. We do not mean the Torah.

 

[Reuben_J]

Injil is the revelation which came to Jesus. We do not mean the Torah.

Injil is not the Bible.

The Torah made up part of the Old Testament of the Bible.

 

[hasantas]

Can you expand on this please? What photos are you referring to? Thank you.

Just some good will of Muslims to prove the miracle of prophet. Even the Pagans who had seen the miracle with thier eyes said that “this is an obvious sorcery”! I think there is no need to prove a miracle by science because the miracles cannot be explained by science and logic. You believe or not. But there are more than 1000 miracles of Muhammad which were reported. Some kinds are about foods and some about water etc.

 

[hasantas]

Injil is not the Bible.

The Torah made up part of the Old Testament of the Bible.

Okay. Muslims are used to think Bible just as the NT.

 

[KildareBrigid]

Just some good will of Muslims to prove the miracle of prophet. Even the Pagans who had seen the miracle with thier eyes said that “this is an obvious sorcery”! I think there is no need to prove a miracle by science because the miracles cannot be explained by science and logic. You believe or not. But there are more than 1000 miracles of Muhammad which were reported. Some kinds are about foods and some about water etc.

I guess I am just confused because you said:
“It was a miracle to demonstrate that He was messenger of God. that case was for a short time. I had seen some photos of moon which point that split.”

I assumed that your quote meant that you have photos or some sort of proof that this miracle occurred.