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hamba2han
Guest
Christians really do need to call the Lord using the name that Jesus (pbuh) himself used to call Him.
youtube.com/watch?v=Ui71HaLm-2M
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youtube.com/watch?v=Ui71HaLm-2M
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ralphinal
Guest
We do!! Abba! Daddy! Father!
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CentralFLJames
Guest
Well Hamba2han - I must say that was an exceptionally well done and beautiful video of Jesus depicting the washing of feet of his Apostles and symbolically starting the new Christian priesthood and first ever Christian Holy Mass.
I agree that Jesus spoke Aramaic. But Jesus taught us to address God in the manner of His relationship - which is God the Father. As the prior post mentions - “abba” is appropriate as well since Christians are taught to confidently approach God in that special famly relationship. But the term “Allah” in fact has a word etymology that is shared with pagan gods throughout Arabia. That is a cultural shame that Arabs do not have a special and more personal word for God that is more unique and not shared. I note that the Qur’an has 99 names for God as well (Islamic Names for God).
But irrespective of all this I am sure God knows who He is and hears who are His real children just as certainly as He knows who reject His truth and just as certainly as He knows who pay Him lip services and only act out of personal interests and false teaching.
Let each soul be attentive to God and respond to His call since He calls all of us to Himself. We should also take a lesson from a deaf and mute person who can no doubt can still talk to God in the natural, quiet and peaceful language of love, trust and faith.
James
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CentralFLJames
Guest
hamba2han - I think I finally have a fool proof plan for peace between Islam and the rest of the world. Why don’t you convince your brothers to stop embracing Jihad and dieing as a martyr as the only way to guarantee getting into paradise. Martyerdom and Jihad was not ever guaranteed to be a way to get to paradise anyway. Mohammad did not teach this. Replace it with a new idea.
My idea is that Muhammad is also reported to have said in a famous Hadith:
“Verily, there are ninety-nine names of God, one hundred minus one. He who enumerates [and believes in them and the one god behind] them would get into Paradise.”
(Sahih Muslim, Vol. 4, no. 1410)
Teach your brothers to reject Jihad and instead recite God’s names. Is this an impossible task for Muslims since no one can believe in all that Mohammad taught as truth? Do Muslims not agree with all God’s Holy names that include things that agree with what Jesus taught (e.g. Al-Wadud (الودود) The Loving, The Kind One)? Arab Christians should call God “Abu” - father.
If I was born in a Muslim country and was forced to be Islamic because that is what my family traditionally was I would reject Jihad as the means to get to paradise. I’d simply learn all of God’s names and recite them daily and live my life in peace. Why don’t Muslims do this easier thing rather than killing themselves and innocent people as martyrs that will all surely go to hell? Or do they prefer Jihad, death and hell over paradise and the more easy pathways there?
“Allahumma inni ad`uka bi asma’ika al-husna kulliha”
“اللهم اني ادعوك باسمائك الحسنى كلها”
“O God, I invoke You with all of Your beautiful names.”
James
My idea is that Muhammad is also reported to have said in a famous Hadith:
“Verily, there are ninety-nine names of God, one hundred minus one. He who enumerates [and believes in them and the one god behind] them would get into Paradise.”
(Sahih Muslim, Vol. 4, no. 1410)
Teach your brothers to reject Jihad and instead recite God’s names. Is this an impossible task for Muslims since no one can believe in all that Mohammad taught as truth? Do Muslims not agree with all God’s Holy names that include things that agree with what Jesus taught (e.g. Al-Wadud (الودود) The Loving, The Kind One)? Arab Christians should call God “Abu” - father.
If I was born in a Muslim country and was forced to be Islamic because that is what my family traditionally was I would reject Jihad as the means to get to paradise. I’d simply learn all of God’s names and recite them daily and live my life in peace. Why don’t Muslims do this easier thing rather than killing themselves and innocent people as martyrs that will all surely go to hell? Or do they prefer Jihad, death and hell over paradise and the more easy pathways there?
“Allahumma inni ad`uka bi asma’ika al-husna kulliha”
“اللهم اني ادعوك باسمائك الحسنى كلها”
“O God, I invoke You with all of Your beautiful names.”
James
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CalmDownWisWins
Guest
Yet another example of literalistic “Cats and dogs ARE falling from the skies!” moslem thinking.
It is so illuminating to hear from moslems.
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Reuben_J
Guest
This is important point and also in the ealier post on the same issue that you alluded to.
It simply boils down to this, isn’t it? The only sure way in Islam for Muslims to go to heaven is to become matyrs. Die in servive of Allah by killing the enemies of Islam.
Maybe it is not so much of the rewards like the virgins (it’s underestimating Muslims to say so) but matyrdom for Muslims is sure way to go to heaven.
It is sad, really sad to have such a god. Muslims can never be sure of Allah’s mercy bacause his mercy is only on whom he chooses. It becomes clear why death in Jihad is so important to Muslims bacause they are not much left for choice.
With a god like Allah, Muslims can never understand the meaning of love. They can never undertsand the meaning of agape love, the unconditional love of Christian God.
Allah is a master and Muslims are his slaves. Literally. They are dispensible like dogs and that include death if it is in the cause of the master. Dogs and dolphins are used by ruthless commanders as living detectors in wartime to detect mines. Of course they die in doing this job. Many Muslims carry this title - slave of god. They will do anything for the cause of ruthless Allah. That include crashing jet liners against skysrcapers or blowing themselves into pieces with bombs, for the cause of Allah.
Problem is, there are many interpretations on what the causes of Allah are. Very often Muslims don’t agree among themselves.
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CentralFLJames
Guest
This is why I have always believed that the Allah of Islam is a false god since he does not reveal even the deprecated Old Testament revelations about God’s nature as merciful as well as just, loving, forgiving etc. Islam is a cast back to some ancient and fearful perspective of God. This tells me that is it a human conception from a paranoid and criminally oriented mind or a demonic inspired teaching. The God who made the splendor of Creation and the miracle of life could never be so cruel as to give a teaching that reveals himself of a nature that is completely contradicts what He reveals to us even through nature and the natural order. Order does not beget chaos - only unlawfulness and disobedience or evil begets chaos. Therefor, its only takes an infantile logic to see Islam is false in its current form since it cruelly entraps God’s creature with a knowledge that neither benefits humankind nor God. Its devoid of anything but conflict and a source for sorting as if goats from sheep.
We can only presume that God permits Islam to exist at all as a consequence of His granting free will and for some other purpose that forces history and a suite of human choice in a direction He wants. Divine Providence is so profound that it still overshadows any evil that can come from Islam by an infinitely superior good. God does not gamble. God knows that His nature and grace will prevail no matter how man cooperates with Satan’s deceptions.
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The utter human sadness here is that Islam has painted itself in a corner by rejecting Jesus’ teaching about forgiveness of sins and entrance into Paradise through His grace, merits and mercy. The sadder thing even still is that Islam has reiterated the error with a post-Mohammedan exegesis that erroneously teaches ignorant Muslim minds that anyone can guarantee entry to paradise only by dieing in Jihad as martyrs.** If we want to declaw Islam we have to get the Islamic clerics to rebuke this teaching. That is possible since there is in fact NO such teaching of “guaranteed entry to paradise” anywhere in the Quran. But Clerics will not do this simply because they use such false promises to expand their followers and personal power and influences. God pity these poor souls on their day of judgement is all I can say!
We Catholics almost need to declare war on spiritual ignorance and send 10’s of thousands of missionaries over to the middle east and tell these people the truth. Gods is really forcing us to get over there and start converting these poor souls to Catholicism. It’s really our only chance to save the world and save at least few Arabic souls from eternal damnation.
James
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Reuben_J
Guest
It is so prophetic. The anitchrist, the false prophet and the children of darkness. Their actions are to undo and to nullify what Jesus had done on the cross. Yes, they need to hear the Good News of the true Jesus of the Gospels. For it is truly in Him only that we are saved.
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swariffin
Guest
Dear James,
Your suggestion is good, but it is exactly the problem of Islam. First, They do not have a central teaching authority. That means anybody with good public speech capability even with shallow knowledge of Islam, but able to remember a verse of two of the quran in Arabic pronounciation (albeit not a good pronounciation) can create large group of fanatic supporters. An opinion of an Islamic leader is not the same as other, even they are located close to one another. In the RCC (exclude the Protestant), the opinion of the pope will certainly be carried by all RCC bishops and priest all over the world.
Second, the teaching of the RCC is opened for reasoning. This characteristic educate the followers (who open themselves) to be openminded and not blind faith. “Fides” is important, but “Ratio” is encouraged. Islam is simply not for discussion. Period.
Last but the most important. Most muslims in global sense are in average poorer and less educated compared to the Christian. The largest muslim population are in developing countries if you do not want to say poor countries. I have already mentioned this in another thread. One or two twisted Quran verses added with a promise of the orgy in heaven, will make a good deal for their lives in exchange of the poor and miserable life on earth.
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Reuben_J
Guest
While this may be true, it is not wholly encompassing. Biodata of those who crashed themselves onto the World Trade Centers showed some were urbane, middle class and professionals. They were not exactly poor.
What made them do this? Notwithstanding the teachings of some Muslim clergies, the Quran teaching of Jihad and the past deeds of Mohammad must got a lot to do with it.
C
CentralFLJames
Guest
Since I think we have pretty much killed the notion that Jesus taught Jihad I am going to go along some with this off topic thought.
What made them do it? I say its the “poison” (lie) of Islam that gives no assurances of any sort or even high expectations to a “true believer” that they will win God’s favor and be accepted into paradise. Islam is a religion of utter despair. Islam has no concept of redemption or full forgiveness of sins. So there is no sure path to heaven. When Islamics see the “Great Satan” (ironic since we see them as that) pushing its culture into every aspect of its previously cloistered and safely “isolated” society it despairs at the severity of the temptations. Frankly in this aspect of temptation I can strongly empathize with them since our TV, movies, marketing etc. is all sensual, and professionally developed to sell products through an avenue that appeals to human vice, vanity and pride. They don’t know how to deal with this cultural invasion and are too vain to see that even without “the west” they themselves are very sinful on their own in their hubris, and abusive relationships with each other and women etc.
This affront of temptation to sin causes a person who wants to be a “good Muslim” to panic since they know they can’t get forgiven if they sin. These people know its only a matter of time before they are tempted to sin and will capitulate to the temptations and never get to heaven. So they look for the only way they think they can escape it - striking at the imagined devil itself and killing themselves to prove to God that they are worthy of paradise. Unfortunately no one told these poor souls that no human can ever “buy” their way into heaven or “buy” God’s favor. They do not know that only the baptismal covenant to remit the original sin of Adam together with the perfect merits of the divine advocate (Jesus) open that pathway to heaven to us all - even if we sin but repent.
Some ignorant cleric long ago started the lie and the tradition that Islamics only sure and guaranteed way to paradise is to die for Allah as a martyr. So this motivates the irrationality of killing in Allah’s name as the ONLY means to get to heaven and enjoy the 72 virgins etc. Islam thus becomes a doomsday weapon for Satan that can never be defused while even a single Muslim thinks he is going to hell if he does not die for Allah.
Thus Islam is a hopeless religion and is inherently suicidal. Not even education can stop this lie because at an early age the personal “identity” or “id” is physcologically formed from our early teaching. Thus the lie of Islam possesses very much like a demon the soul. Once possessed the demonic lie waits for a person to commit its first serious sin knowing that this person believes it has no avenue for forgiveness or favor save one - martyrdom. When the guilt manifests itself into the conscious realization that the guilty person will go to hell if he dies in sin he seeks a way to redeem himself. He then finds the lie of redemption through martyrdom. Then we have hell on earth as it expands and violence begets more violence in a cascade of error and sin. This is most present in younger men (and especially loners and social rejects) who do not yet have responsibilities of family or can not find a wife and a real purpose in life to live for. I imagine this proclivity is also present in older men who are looking to escape the hell of being with a bad wife but can’t divorce nor compete for a younger wife any longer.
Also the rate of social change is too intense for many Islamics who are socially very conservative - so this creates huge anxiety and again feeds the “victim” mentality. We really almost need to perform an exorcism or send in battalions of psychologists since its a mental illness as much as it is a spiritual illness.God weeps for humanity and how easily Satan deceived billions.
Our only hope is Jesus, prayer and divine grace and mercy. But if history is any indication of what to expect - a huge chastisement must come on the entire planet.
James
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Reuben_J
Guest
That’s a useful commentary. Islam and Muslims being looked upon from the outside. Muslims should give this a thought.
The reality that cannot be denied is that there are Muslims willing to take their own lives for the sake of the Quran. There got to be reasons for this. Your comment is certainly not very far from the truth. I’m sure Muslims would find it difficult to accept this, but facts do speak for themselves.
The number of young fanatics Muslims being churned by the Madarasah in Muslim countries in the pursuit of Jihad are certainly very alarming. The admission by Hamba that Jesus did call for Jihad truly reflects the Jihad mentality of Muslims. He sees Jihad in everything. How tragic.
The reality that cannot be denied is that there are Muslims willing to take their own lives for the sake of the Quran. There got to be reasons for this. Your comment is certainly not very far from the truth. I’m sure Muslims would find it difficult to accept this, but facts do speak for themselves.
The number of young fanatics Muslims being churned by the Madarasah in Muslim countries in the pursuit of Jihad are certainly very alarming. The admission by Hamba that Jesus did call for Jihad truly reflects the Jihad mentality of Muslims. He sees Jihad in everything. How tragic.
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CentralFLJames
Guest
I think this entire victim pattern can be studied and generalized in an objective and non-religious way if we strip away the emotional aspects that are so intimately intertwined with spiritual or religious identity. To this pursuit we can see the same or similar pattern in serious criminals who are committed to life terms in prison for murder etc.
Once “hope” for a personal redemption is removed from the “system” (no matter if that system is a philosophy, religion, social convention etc.) the human survival mechanism is so intense it fabricates its own illusion or reality that operates to elevate self to a condition of super freedom without regard to the cost to others. If a condemned criminal escapes prison they will do anything to avoid recapture since they have nothing more to lose. We often see such criminals force a life-or-death showdown and elect death and the death of others rather than “go back”.
Essentially its an ego problem that seems germane to our human nature (occasioned by original sin). This character defect operates to sear the conscience in a selfish way to promote the rationalization of defiant behaviors that can only elevate self over the “community” of humanity. If we want to tie it back to religion we see it as the very same pattern of desire to be “as God” that was present in the original theology (e.g. In Eden where man fell for the temptation to grasp at equality with God without respecting the risk and consequence not only to self but to all future descendants). Its essentially choosing behaviors that are selfish and irresponsible and which seperate us from the very objective we seek - to be with God or like God. Ironically God invites us to be with Him without need for spiritual theft or forced acceptance. Basically humanity since its fall from grace has a perpetual genetic-spiritual predisposition towards reckless and self defeating behaviors. Absent divine intervention (which we have in Jesus already) the only way humanity can productively harness this predisposition for “good” is to match that self-defeating recklessness to something productive to both self as well as society through a motivation to ego. This means we have to embrace the notion of “sacrifice” to give up freedoms; and hence we lose the very thing we originally grasped at and now realize in our nature the consequence of sin.
Here is a tongue-n-cheek idea:
If Islam will not accept Jesus as divine and as the means to gain forgiveness for sins then perhaps we need to petition some influential Islamic cleric to “bend” the martyr teaching a bit. Maybe Islam can have its own Muslim “scape goat” for sin (just like we Christians do in Jesus and just as Jews each have in their ritual animal sacrifices). So maybe when these Islamic want-to-be martyrs are feeling guilty and frustrated rather than killing themselves and other innocents as a sacrifice to Allah they could instead be convinced to simply check in at their nearest mosque for a ritual beheading.
Then after reciting a few ritual prayers and doing their “Allahu Akbars” they can offer their own heads to Allah as an offering for sins with the promise of paradise befitting a martyr in their personal holy war against their own personal inner devil? Perhaps they could even invite their proud families to be all present taking studio quality videos and photos to show their friends and encourage others to do the same? It could become as fashionable as hanging up hero posters in Palestine of those that blow themselves to hamburger for Allah 
If nothing else it would sure cull the herd of the defective genetics that keeps inbreeding irrationality into the gene pool in a contained way.
James
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hamba2han
Guest
Unlike Christians, Muslims do not at all regard Jihad as a dirty word.
For Muslims, Jihad is a very noble and virtuous act and it was indeed commanded by God to among others, Prophet Moses and Prophet David before Prophet Jesus (peace and blessings of Allah be upon them all).
Christians really do need to read their Bible and as I have pointed out in a prior post, in particular to the verses 7:1-5 and also 20:10-15 in Deuteronomy.
Again I ask this question with regard to both of these passages from Deuteronomy:
Did Jesus condemn and disassociated himself from the concept of Jihad that was commanded to and indeed carried out by Moses (pbut)?
If you say ‘YES’, then how on earth can you then proclaim that it is Jesus (pbuh) who is actually the one referred to as the “Prophet like unto Moses” in Deuteronomy 18:17-18, as it is totally inconceivable that God will send a new Prophet who will condemn and dissociate himself from the divine commands given to an earlier Prophet as written in the Bible?
For Muslims, Jihad is a very noble and virtuous act and it was indeed commanded by God to among others, Prophet Moses and Prophet David before Prophet Jesus (peace and blessings of Allah be upon them all).
Christians really do need to read their Bible and as I have pointed out in a prior post, in particular to the verses 7:1-5 and also 20:10-15 in Deuteronomy.
Again I ask this question with regard to both of these passages from Deuteronomy:
Did Jesus condemn and disassociated himself from the concept of Jihad that was commanded to and indeed carried out by Moses (pbut)?
If you say ‘YES’, then how on earth can you then proclaim that it is Jesus (pbuh) who is actually the one referred to as the “Prophet like unto Moses” in Deuteronomy 18:17-18, as it is totally inconceivable that God will send a new Prophet who will condemn and dissociate himself from the divine commands given to an earlier Prophet as written in the Bible?
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mangy_dog
Guest
Hambo, Hambo, Hambo
You gotta’ love this guy. So mis-guided. You need a lot of prayer.
Jesus came to complete…to perfect what was lacking in the old law. Not to change it and definitely not to change it by violence!! Jesus, the Lord and God of all, shed His blood on the cross, ascended to the Father and together sent the Holy Spirit!!!
This is a God of love of peace of charity of mercy of forgiveness. Islam has nothing like this because it follows the teachings of a so called “prophet” that is merely human. Jesus is divine and therefore His sacrifice on the cross was super-abundant because He is the Word that sustains everything in existence.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum
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Jesusisgod
Guest
LUKE 16:16 - “THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS WERE UNTIL JOHN (THE BAPTIST)” - JESUS.
Therefore, muhammad was a fako.
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CentralFLJames
Guest
It’s pointless to discuss it further with him. It’s clear he is following a logic script like an Amway salesman or a Jehovah’s witness recruiter. He wants to use a tedious binary yes-no process of questions to lead you like a donkey down a predetermined path of dialog to some silly and unexciting objective realization that Islam is the answer to all. He probably works for some new low level Mullah who has a recruitment objective and gets “credits” for remission of sins or some other special favor for time spent correcting us “unbelievers”. One strategy to deal with it is to tie him up here indefinitely to keep him safe and away from more impressionable and naive minds. The other is to reverse the tables and convert him. The problem is I think this is probably his job as well and he gets income from this. That’s going to be hard to compete with since that means he is not even sincere himself.Hambo, Hambo, Hambo
You gotta’ love this guy. So mis-guided. You need a lot of prayer.
Jesus came to complete…to perfect what was lacking in the old law. Not to change it and definitely not to change it by violence!! Jesus, the Lord and God of all, shed His blood on the cross, ascended to the Father and together sent the Holy Spirit!!!
This is a God of love of peace of charity of mercy of forgiveness. Islam has nothing like this because it follows the teachings of a so called “prophet” that is merely human. Jesus is divine and therefore His sacrifice on the cross was super-abundant because He is the Word that sustains everything in existence.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum
I admire his personal perseverance and faith in what he believes. If we could only get him to open up to reason and the truth he would make an excellent Christian and help spread the word to his brothers. Let the water torture continue - eventually we will get him baptised…
James
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Jesusisgod
Guest
Just like we always say, don’t waste time explaining to the muslims. If they could understand logic, they wouldn’t be flying planes into buildings and calling pedophiles and murderers their greatest prophet.It’s pointless to discuss it further with him. It’s clear he is following a logic script like an Amway salesman or a Jehovah’s witness recruiter. He wants to use a tedious binary yes-no process of questions to lead you like a donkey down a predetermined path of dialog to some silly and unexciting objective realization that Islam is the answer to all. He probably works for some new low level Mullah who has a recruitment objective and gets “credits” for remission of sins or some other special favor for time spent correcting us “unbelievers”. One strategy to deal with it is to tie him up here indefinitely to keep him safe and away from more impressionable and naive minds. The other is to reverse the tables and convert him. The problem is I think this is probably his job as well and he gets income from this. That’s going to be hard to compete with since that means he is not even sincere himself.
I like her personal perseverance and faith in what he believes. If we could only get him to open up to reason and the truth he would make an excellent Christian and help spread the word to his brothers. Let the water torture continue - eventually we will get him baptised…
James
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mangy_dog
Guest
I just hope that Hambo understands that we really do lululul.ululullululululululululululu luv him.It’s pointless to discuss it further with him. It’s clear he is following a logic script like an Amway salesman or a Jehovah’s witness recruiter. He wants to use a tedious binary yes-no process of questions to lead you like a donkey down a predetermined path of dialog to some silly and unexciting objective realization that Islam is the answer to all. He probably works for some new low level Mullah who has a recruitment objective and gets “credits” for remission of sins or some other special favor for time spent correcting us “unbelievers”. One strategy to deal with it is to tie him up here indefinitely to keep him safe and away from more impressionable and naive minds. The other is to reverse the tables and convert him. The problem is I think this is probably his job as well and he gets income from this. That’s going to be hard to compete with since that means he is not even sincere himself.
I admire his personal perseverance and faith in what he believes. If we could only get him to open up to reason and the truth he would make an excellent Christian and help spread the word to his brothers. Let the water torture continue - eventually we will get him baptised…
James
Sorry, couldn’t resist.
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Joyousguard
Guest
You yet again do not understand what Jesus was saying. “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil” Jesus is saying that He is the Law giver and that the Jews have not been fullfilling the law. The Jews asked Jesus if He came to abolsih the law. To which Jesus said, “no i have not come to abolish the law but get you guys to do what you were suppose to do in the first place”. Jesus is clealry rebuking the Jews and telling them that He is here to bring them the truth they wish to deny.
The Old Covenant is replaced by the New Coveneant and the Beatitudes on Sermon on the Mount. Jesus is furthering the progression of understanding for mankind.
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