"The Catholic Church is wrong"

[Martin777]

God is clear who the “rock” is!

1 Samuel 2
2:2
"No one is holy like the Lord, For there is none besides You, **Nor is there any rock like our God. **

2 Samuel 22
22:2
And he said: F49 "The Lord is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer;

2 Samuel 22
22:32
"For who is God, except the Lord? **And who is a rock, except our God? **

Psalms 18
18:2
**The Lord is my rock **and my fortress and my deliverer; My God, my strength, in whom I will trust; My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.

Psalms 18
18:31
For who is God, except the Lord? **And who is a rock, except our God? **

Psalms 92
92:15
To declare that the Lord is upright; He is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in Him.

It is not that we hate Catholics nor Catholicism but you guys are wrong in a lot of areas.

You are so on target brother! I’m not sure why is so hard for them to admit that.

 

[guanophore]

You are so on target brother! I’m not sure why is so hard for them to admit that.

For us, it is not an “either/or” situation as it is for our separated brethren. We believe that Jesus grafted Peter into His own Rockness, and also made foundation stones out of the Apostles and prophets. None of Jesus’ rockness is lost by bringing others into it.

 

[Martin777]

For us, it is not an “either/or” situation as it is for our separated brethren. We believe that Jesus grafted Peter into His own Rockness, and also made foundation stones out of the Apostles and prophets. None of Jesus’ rockness is lost by bringing others into it.

So here is a question for you: Is it possible for a man or woman out there who has never come in contact with the RCC, who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ for forgiveness of sins, to be saved, and never join the RCC?

 

[Hisalone]

For us, it is not an “either/or” situation as it is for our separated brethren. We believe that Jesus grafted Peter into His own Rockness, and also made foundation stones out of the Apostles and prophets. None of Jesus’ rockness is lost by bringing others into it.

Catholics, it seems blur the lines between the Divine and the human often.

 

[AshleyBelle]

Catholics, it seems blur the lines between the Divine and the human often.

Were we created for the flesh, or for holiness?

 

[guanophore]

So here is a question for you: Is it possible for a man or woman out there who has never come in contact with the RCC, who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ for forgiveness of sins, to be saved, and never join the RCC?

Of course! God can save whoever He wants, however He likes! He has chosen to work through His Body on Earth, the Church. There is only One Church, therefore, all who are saved are part of that One Church. The Church is not “Roman” anyhow.

 

[guanophore]

Catholics, it seems blur the lines between the Divine and the human often.

You know, I think this is true. This is evident in the Scriptures and especially in the Eastern theology of Theosis. He has become man so that we can become like Him. We become partakers of His divine nature, and are transformed into new creatures, reflecting His image and likeness. God made humans to be the capstone of His Creation. He meant for us to shine forth His image and likeness. When He grafted the Apostles and prophets into His own “Rockness” to become the foundation of His One Church, He made them partakers of His Divine nature.

Jesus, in His Person, completely blurred the lines between Human and Divine. He held within Himself 100% human and 100% divinity. This is a profound mystery. Who can understand it?

 

[Martin777]

Catholics, it seems blur the lines between the Divine and the human often.

Yes, I’m afraid so. And it is interesting that when Paul, under Divine inspiration, had the chance to affirm Peter’s (supposed) headship over the Church, he didn’t. Notice from I Cor: “My brothers, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul? I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, so no one can say that you were baptized into my name.”

 

[AshleyBelle]

You know, I think this is true. This is evident in the Scriptures and especially in the Eastern theology of Theosis. He has become man so that we can become like Him. We become partakers of His divine nature, and are transformed into new creatures, reflecting His image and likeness. God made humans to be the capstone of His Creation. He meant for us to shine forth His image and likeness. When He grafted the Apostles and prophets into His own “Rockness” to become the foundation of His One Church, He made them partakers of His Divine nature.

Jesus, in His Person, completely blurred the lines between Human and Divine. He held within Himself 100% human and 100% divinity. This is a profound mystery. Who can understand it?

Great post, guanophore

Why then is it “bad” to “blur” the human and the divine? Will we still be human if we share eternity with Christ in heaven? Were we created in the flesh, or in the spirit of God?

 

[twb1621]

I think it can be good, that people find things they think/believe are wrong with the catholic church. Just like my husband did.

He told me last night, HE was wrong.
He told me the Church may just be right after all.

I never shut him down when he expressed himself. I simply prayed, offered up my daily work, all my pain, and went to mass as often as I could go.

He is going to be a catholic too now.

God bless you both… and Congratulations!

 

[Realcatholicgk]

So here is a question for you: Is it possible for a man or woman out there who has never come in contact with the RCC, who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ for forgiveness of sins, to be saved, and never join the RCC?

**Hi Martin, **** **

---

Of course! And here is another mind bender for you. It is possible for a man or woman who never heard of the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved, having never been a christian at all.

**And you can do something “sinful” and it is not be a sin, for you, if you don’t realize it is a sin! **

---

"But the servant who did things that deserved a beating without knowing it will receive a light beating. Much will be required from everyone to whom much has been given. But even more will be demanded from the one to whom much has been entrusted" (Luke 12:48). …

 

[guanophore]

Yes, I’m afraid so. And it is interesting that when Paul, under Divine inspiration, had the chance to affirm Peter’s (supposed) headship over the Church, he didn’t.

Do you think not? Why do you suppose that it was important to Paul that he check his gospel, or that he be concerned that he had run in vain?

Gal 2:2
" I went up in response to a revelation. Then I laid before them (though only in a private meeting with the acknowledged leaders) the gospel that I proclaim among the Gentiles, in order to make sure that I was not running, or had not run, in vain."

Why did Paul lay his gospel before the acknowledged leaders? How did doing so help him to “make sure” that he had not run in vain?

Notice from I Cor: "My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ." Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul? I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, so no one can say that you were baptized into my name."

This should be good demonstration for you that all were laborers in God’s field, and that there were no factions. Paul was in unity with all the Apostles, which Christ as the Head.

Gal 2:9
“…and when James and Cephas and John, who were acknowledged pillars, recognized the grace that had been given to me, they gave to Barnabas and me the right hand of fellowship, agreeing that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised…”

I think you imagine that there was a disunity that did not exist. Disunity, separation and division are the fruit of the Reformation, not the Apostolic Church.

 

[twb1621]

**Hi Martin, **** **

---

Of course! And here is another mind bender for you. It is possible for a man or woman who never heard of the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved, having never been a christian at all.

**And you can do something “sinful” and it is not be a sin, for you, if you don’t realize it is a sin! **

---

"But the servant who did things that deserved a beating without knowing it will receive a light beating. Much will be required from everyone to whom much has been given. But even more will be demanded from the one to whom much has been entrusted" (Luke 12:48). …

great reply…

 

[Martin777]

Great post, guanophore

Why then is it “bad” to “blur” the human and the divine? Will we still be human if we share eternity with Christ in heaven? Were we created in the flesh, or in the spirit of God?

It could be a mistake to blur that line with anyone other than the God-Man, the unique Son of God!

 

[AshleyBelle]

It could be a mistake to blur that line with anyone other than the God-Man, the unique Son of God!

In heaven, will we still be flesh, or will we be restored purly to the image and likeness of God?

Conforming ourselves to Christ, is not just about conforming ourselves to his flesh. It is about ultimately conforming to His very nature, so that one day, we may share not only in his humanity, but in His divinity

 

[Martin777]

Do you think not? Why do you suppose that it was important to Paul that he check his gospel, or that he be concerned that he had run in vain?

Gal 2:2
" I went up in response to a revelation. Then I laid before them (though only in a private meeting with the acknowledged leaders) the gospel that I proclaim among the Gentiles, in order to make sure that I was not running, or had not run, in vain."

Why did Paul lay his gospel before the acknowledged leaders? How did doing so help him to “make sure” that he had not run in vain?

This should be good demonstration for you that all were laborers in God’s field, and that there were no factions. Paul was in unity with all the Apostles, which Christ as the Head.

Gal 2:9
“…and when James and Cephas and John, who were acknowledged pillars, recognized the grace that had been given to me, they gave to Barnabas and me the right hand of fellowship, agreeing that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised…”

I think you imagine that there was a disunity that did not exist. Disunity, separation and division are the fruit of the Reformation, not the Apostolic Church.

The Church was brand new, and Paul was being both humble and wise.

BUT…It is interesting that you bring up that passage, because it is there in Galatians 2, just a few verses later that Paul tells us he had to rebuke Peter because Peter was in error and being hypocritical.

 

[AshleyBelle]

The Church was brand new, and Paul was being both humble and wise.

BUT…It is interesting that you bring up that passage, because it is there in Galatians 2, just a few verses later that Paul tells us he had to rebuke Peter because Peter was in error and being hypocritical.

Is the person, Peter guranteed infallibility? Or is the Holy Spirit working through Peter?

Do you think we believe everything the pope says and does is infallible truth?

 

[Martin777]

In heaven, will we still be flesh, or will we be restored purly to the image and likeness of God?

Conforming ourselves to Christ, is not just about conforming ourselves to his flesh. It is about ultimately conforming to His very nature, so that one day, we may share not only in his humanity, but in His divinity

Here are two thoughts on that: Col. 3 (and in Eph) tells us we are seated with Him right now, if we are born again. Secondly, John says that when He returns, “we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is!” At that moment, just seeing Him will complete the sanctification process! We will then be beyond the possibility of sinning ever again! Hallelujah!

 

[distracted]

Why is everybody an expert?

And, do they have the right to criticize?

I run into non-Catholics Protestants all the time, who criticize Catholicism and have all sorts of opinions on Christian beliefs and why the Catholic Church is wrong about this or that… and yet, these same people, seldom, if ever… attend any church and do not themselves, behave like Christians.

Additionally, many of those who complain about, what is “wrong” with Catholicism, know little or nothing about Catholic beliefs.

Now, what’s up with that?

they’re just ignorant… as i once was (before i catechized myself… .which i had to do myself seeing as how my parents and the priests i had while growing up didn’t do that… )

What i canot understand is why they choose to remain ignorant. Not all do, but some… well, my thought is that if they loved Jesus half as much as they claim, they would want to know about the history of His Church (whether they know or suspect its the Catholic one or whatever…). It makes no sense to say you love Jesus and not want to know the history of his religion…

 

[AshleyBelle]

Here are two thoughts on that: Col. 3 (and in Eph) tells us we are seated with Him right now, if we are born again. Secondly, John says that when He returns, “we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is!” At that moment, just seeing Him will complete the sanctification process! We will then be beyond the possibility of sinning ever again! Hallelujah!

We were not created to sin, but because of God’s love, we have free will, and CHOSE sin. Even though from the beginning, we were created for eternity.

Yes, we will be perfectly sanctified, and beyond the possibility of sinning again… for there is no room for sin in heaven! We will be “holy” and spotless, and share in the very nature of Christ and his dinvinity.

We were not created for the flesh, but for the divine