"The Catholic Church is wrong"

[Rolltide]

I’m still waiting…
God Bless the heretic Tim Tebow and the Gator Nation!

Yes…

They will face a GREAT trial tomorrow! lol

 

[Singinbeauty]

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them,** I never knew you**: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Jhn 10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

Jhn 10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. **
Jhn 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my [sheep], and am known of mine. **
Jhn 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Jhn 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

well whats a relationship then?

here is what paul said about his religion…

Phl 3:5 **Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, [of] the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; ** (Wow cant get more religious then that)

Phl 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

Phl 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

Phl 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things [but] loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them [but] dung, that I may win Christ,

Phl 3:9 And be found in him, **not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: **

Paul was the hebrew of hebrews the most religious man he killed for his religion.(count them all dung)

When reading these passages time after time it is reiterated…

I never KNEW you
They KNOW His voice
They KNOW NOT the voice of STRANGERS

You can’t know someone without having a relationship with them. You can know OF them but not KNOW them. Christ spent time individually with people. He spoke TO them not AT them. He desires a relationship with us. But we, in effort to be perfect for Him, bicker about what is the right way to follow the religion and SOMETIMES our relationship with Him fades away or gets lost.

As for the OP, it brings a good point for BOTH catholics and protestants. Everyone thinks they are experts on what the other believes and often bash and beat (verbally or physically) anyone who believes differently from them. That needs to stop but I don’t think that is going to happen anytime soon… At least, not until Christ makes His promised return.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

Hey-- I had two questions previously that no one wanted to answer. They are quite unrelated, except at the core.

**Hi Martin,

I don’t know why someone didn’t answer them they aren’t the hardest questions! I won’t dare tell you they ones that are or you would ask them! **

The first…Why is it that the one time we have recorded by God in Scripture where someone tried to elevate Mary within earshot of Jesus, this is what happened: “And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.” (Luke 11:27-28) (And interestingly, the woman shouted it out right after Jesus gave a lesson on demons).

**OK, martin, The reason is really simple. Jesus was making a “Point” ~ That point being, that people who “hear” the word of God and keep it, like Catholics do, are really blessed! Even more than His own Mother! Can you imagine that? WOW How impotant is it to Listen and keep God’s words?

Do you think that he was “insulting” His own mother by what He said? Did you get that from the passage, rather than how much 'more" blessed are people that listen to God’s words?

Martin, you do realize that the Blessed Mother isn’t “necessary” for our salvation, right? But that our listening to the word of God is absolutely essential **to our salvation!

Knowing that, who would “you” say was more blessed? The Mother or the follower of God? Do you take that to exclude her? That it was either/or not Blessed and more Blessed! Do you think that His Mother wasn’t a follower of His? Anyway, why is this so important to you?

Hearing the word of God and keeping it, like when Jesus “commands” us to eat his real body and drink his real blood is so much more important!
Jesus knew that His words might be “misunderstood”. He knew that some people might even drink grape juice rather that real 'wine" that He said was His actual blood. He knew some people would pretend to be His followers deluding even themselves that they were actually following Him. What did He tell them when they said they drove out deamons and did great things in His name! Do your remember?

Martin, Jesus commanded us: “Eat My Flesh and Drink My Blood” not once but multiple times in John 6. There are only two Churches which have valid Eucharist and Mysteries/Sacraments…these are the same two Churches which maintain an unbroken Apostolic Succession Line back to Jesus’ 12 Apostles, over 2000 years ago. Those Churches are the Orthodox and Catholic Churches.

Remember that many of His “followers” left Him because they could not accept His truth! They refused to follow His teachings. They actually saw His greatness yet they failed to listen to His words:

“Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.”

So I say: Blessed is the Holy Roman Catholic Church for listening and following His commandments! Blessed is the Blessed Mother of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. May she pray for us to her beloved son that we may become worthy of the promises He made!

Here’s the second question: Why is it that the popular Catholic radio stations play mostly music created by non-Catholics? Just a thought.

**
Ever hear a Catholic sing? It isn’t a pretty thing! freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing024.gif**

Now, May I ask:

Why do Protestant churches sing “Catholic” Hymns?

Why was it necessary to “borrow” our bible?

Why only use 3 of the 7 sacraments?

Why disobey Jesus?

And most importantly, how is any of this foolishness going to help you obtain eternal life with Christ?

God Bless!

 

[Martin777]

Well, according to the Ignatius Study Bible, it is better to belong to Jesus’ spiritual family than to his earthly family. His mother Mary is blessed on both counts, since she is Christ’s biological mother (1:42, 48) and the sterling example of one who hears and keeps the word of the Lord (1:38, 45).

Well, non-Catholic Christians are still Christians, and many of them use more contemporary music in their services. There is nothing wrong with this music per se, but Catholics would not consider it reverent enough for their services. Since some Protestants DO use it in their services, there is more demand from them for compositions of this type. There is nothing wrong with Catholics listening to Christian music, as long as the lyrics are not blatantly heretical.

Should be a great game tomorrow!

So…As much time as Catholics spend exalting and praying to Mary (It is a MASSIVE part of the church life), and as important as prayer is, it seems strange that not only did Jesus not instruct on praying to Mary, but the ONE time someone speaks in what we could now call a “Catholic way” about Mary in Jesus’ presence, he directs them away from her altogether. It’s rather like a mild rebuke. It seems to me that an honest, objective interpretaion of this would show the practice of praying to Mary to be completely contrary to sound biblical scholarship and to the heart of Jesus in the one passage where He was confronted with someone who wished to exalt her!

I can only imagine how the Catholic church would jump on someone who formed some other doctrine in such a biblically careless way. Hmmm…

And my point about Catholic radio is that it seems non-Catholics produce music that inspires Catholics to tune in, and I don’t think they would otherwise. It just makes me wonder what the source is. Steer me to some powerful Catholic music I can put on my Ipod. I like all genres.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Hey-- I had two questions previously that no one wanted to answer. They are quite unrelated, except at the core.

The first…Why is it that the one time we have recorded by God in Scripture where someone tried to elevate Mary within earshot of Jesus, this is what happened: “And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.” (Luke 11:27-28) (And interestingly, the woman shouted it out right after Jesus gave a lesson on demons).

 

[twb1621]

Should be a great game tomorrow!

So…As much time as Catholics spend exalting and praying to Mary (It is a MASSIVE part of the church life), and as important as prayer is, it seems strange that not only did Jesus not instruct on praying to Mary, but the ONE time someone speaks in what we could now call a “Catholic way” about Mary in Jesus’ presence, he directs them away from her altogether. It’s rather like a mild rebuke. It seems to me that an honest, objective interpretaion of this would show the practice of praying to Mary to be completely contrary to sound biblical scholarship and to the heart of Jesus in the one passage where He was confronted with someone who wished to exalt her!

I can only imagine how the Catholic church would jump on someone who formed some other doctrine in such a biblically careless way. Hmmm…
First I will say that the scripture even according to itself does not contain all that occured in the history of Jesus life including Mary’s. Second, there are many references to Mary in the Bible and the only one that you could possibly misread you are trying to make a negative point of which it was not as stated. You are not the first to do this but it is a fact. Also, If you want the closest interpretation to the Biblical translations it would be wise to use the authentic interpretations as in the Catholic Bibles over two thousand years and I don’t mean that to be sarcastic, but truthful. Finally, Jesus loved and honored His mother but His ministry, His purpose was to bring others to repentance and salvation which His mother was chosen already from Birth and He was in fact making the reference that Those who return to God are more highly pleasing than even the blessed.
And my point about Catholic radio is that it seems non-Catholics produce music that inspires Catholics to tune in, and I don’t think they would otherwise. It just makes me wonder what the source is. Steer me to some powerful Catholic music I can put on my Ipod. I like all genres./
QUOTE]

As far as Christian music is concerned, it is just that, Christian. There are no Christian songs that I ever heard that are debates between denominations, just praising God. Our most beautiful music as far as I am concerned is the latin prayers in “Chants” But you wouldn’t understand that at this point. Many of the Christian Singers are Catholic but it is not made a point of. Also, one of the most beautiful Christian Singers I have ever heard is Catholic, Donna Cori Gibson. You can learn more about her at donnacorigibson.com/
Holy Spirit guide us all.

 

[ChristianKnight]

**Christian, I think apologies are in order.:ehh:

Hey, You had a birthday? Happy B’day! When? You were 15 not too long ago!

God Bless**

I do not see why, but I will if CW can explain why, or someone.

Ya, but it stinks cause I don’t even have a driver permit, I just drive without one. If I get caught they can take my ability to drive away (even though I never had one until I am 18). I really don’t need one though, tractors here, are allowed even at a young age, I think the limit for it is 16, but I’ve been doing it for quite a while.

Christian, you’re what 16 years of age… You have a strong devotion to your faith compared to many your age but you want to fight everyone, even if they are not trying to fight with you. you have to be as open to hearing our side as you want us to be hearing you so would you want to give it another shot or what?

Give what another shot? (kinda lost, just woke up, but sorry.

It’s M’aam to you

Yes. When I was first fostered out from the orphanage, I lived on a farm. Wonderful family, and wonderful memories of milking by hand, and the ferral cats that would come around at milking time for their treat. Wonderful, wonderful memories, until the abuse started. But that’s another story.

I wasn’t addressing to you, but to CWBetts, but umk.

I love farms, thats why I live on one lol. My parents were gonna move to Florida into Orlando, but I told them if they moved that I am either staying or running away to my uncle’s to work on his rice farm.

Then you obviously know nothing of my church. I love how you guys judge my church, I am sure you’ve been there dozens of times.

I know enough about religion to write several books! I have read 100s of them. Your church, not you personally, “must” be judged. By its very nature, It teaches falsehoods. How do I know? Because only the Catholic church has the authority to correctly interpret God’s words. As I stated before we didn’t change, adjust, rewrite, edit, or modify God’s word to suit our own needs!

So? I’ve read hundreds of books on greek mythology and World War II, doesn’t mean I know everything about them or remotely half. And I didn’t either, at least we got something in common.

Try a real Holy Bible someday! It may surprise you!
You sure I can? Are protestants allowed to touch them?
Boo Hoo, poor little boy! You actually are having fun being a martyr, aren’t you? Seriousely, I hope no one ever said you were corrupt, evil or “un”-pure! You are a child of God just as the rest of us are! We are all sinners in one way or another. I think people are just attempting to let you know that you are following a counterfeit christian organization’s beliefs. And you even admit you don’t even conform to them because you are “independent”. So it is just you and God! I wonder who will win that arguement? “But…but, God, I didn’t know!” God: “You were told!”
I am not a martyr. I think having god is enough. I do not need a priest to tell me scripture when I can read and write.
We, Humans sin. But the “Church” can’t sin! It is the “body of christ” He can’t sin so how could His body? If we “follow” the teachings of the catholic church we are doing Jesus’ will as He wanted it done, not as we “think” He wants it done, or someone else says is His will
But didn’t Jesus come to save us from our human nature?

I think the church sins. I don’t know, I don’t have a real bible.

 

[CWBetts]

What am I supposed to expllain, and what were you responding to?

 

[Ag_not]

I wasn’t addressing to you, but to CWBetts, but umk.

OK. you’ll see **here **why I thought you were addressing me as you quoted me - But, whatever.

 

[ChristianKnight]

OK. you’ll see **here **why I thought you were addressing me as you quoted me - But, whatever.

umk, sorry bout that.

What am I supposed to expllain, and what were you responding to?

I was told to apologize about something, I didn’t know what, I am pretty sure he wanted me to apologize to you.

 

[CWBetts]

umk, sorry bout that.

I was told to apologize about something, I didn’t know what, I am pretty sure he wanted me to apologize to you.

No apology nescessary. I never felt insulted or anything like that. We both hold strong beliefs that are in disagrement, And we both believe we are right and the other is wrong.

 

[ChristianKnight]

No apology nescessary. I never felt insulted or anything like that. We both hold strong beliefs that are in disagrement, And we both believe we are right and the other is wrong.

The feeling is mutual :hug3:

 

[guanophore]

Holiness is, in a way, in three parts. The moment a man or woman is saved through faith in Christ, they become a saint in the sense that they are set apart for God (See the beginning of all Paul’s epistles, where he addresses the believers as ‘saints’). So we are holy. But there is also the ongoing experiential sanctification that happens here on earth, where we are being made holy progressively. But finally there is that ultimate sanctification (also called glorification–the ‘redemption of our bodies’ that Paul talks about in Rom 8). That is what John is talking about there in I John 3, when he says we will be like Him when we see Him as He is! Then we will be 100% holy, both positionally and experientially. That’s one of the reasons John says in Rev, “Even so, come Lord Jesus!”

It is very Catholic of you to say this!

I’m sorry, but Scripture is very clear about this. Paul says in Rom 3 that “there is NONE righteous, no not ONE!” He goes on to describe the human condition in very graphic, sinful terms. NO ONE can come to God in ANY way except through the blood of Christ.

Yes, but one must consider the context here. Paul is taking this verse from psalm, where it is clear that there are righteous and unrighteous. Paul is using the verse to show that unbelief separates people from God, whether they are Jew, or Gentile.

I agree, though, that it is the blood of Christ that saves. However, some people may not realize they are saved by the blood of Christ, but are, nevertheless, saved.

Yes! And Paul promises in Philippians that “He who began a good work in you will complete it unto the day of redemtion!”

So long as one does not deliberately frustrate and oppose that work.

 

[guanophore]

I have read enough threads here to know that Catholics don’t like protestants.

This is a prejudicial statement, and false. Many of us came out of Protestantism, and have much gratitude for what we learned from our separated brethren.

 

[guanophore]

I’m going to jump in here an interject some commentary because I think it’s needed at this point.

I’ve spent a lot of time talking to ChristianKnight, including walking him through two complete Masses on youtube and EWTN, and I do believe to be entirely sincere in his desire to learn more about Catholicism. However, he also has a lot of issues with fighting and arguing, and he’s still young. I know that he’s had problems at home. He doesn’t respond to insults or confrontation well at all. We should not be attacking him by saying he’s a martyr and “boo hoo” and things like that. What we need to do with this young man is demonstrate an extremely high level of patience. He’s 16. If he needs something explained 20 times, then so be it. He lacks the knowledge of other denominations and history that many of us have on here, so he’s at a huge disadvantage. It’s wonderful that he is investigating our religion, but when people insult him, it leaves a very sour impression. If you want to evangelize him, you’ve got to be inviting and be his friend! We need to stop attacking him and his beliefs, and in the most excruciatingly polite way possible, present to him our faith. Otherwise, what reason will he have to stay?

Sorry, my rant is over.

I do not think this is a “rant”, but an appeal to common sense and wisdom. I hope it is not “over” and that you will say it as man times as it needs to be said. It is not just a teenager that may need to hear things 20 times! Then again, there may be some teenagers in very old bodies! Thanks for your great witness.

 

[Martin777]

It is very Catholic of you to say this!

Yes, but one must consider the context here. Paul is taking this verse from psalm, where it is clear that there are righteous and unrighteous. Paul is using the verse to show that unbelief separates people from God, whether they are Jew, or Gentile.

I agree, though, that it is the blood of Christ that saves. However, some people may not realize they are saved by the blood of Christ, but are, nevertheless, saved.

So long as one does not deliberately frustrate and oppose that work.

Actually what I said about the biblical doctrine of holiness was simply what the Holy Spirit taught me through personal study and through godly pastors and teachers and scholars through the years. And I say this respectfully…none of them were Roman Catholic. It is the same Holy Spirit who lives inside of all people who have been born again, who illumines the scriptures and applies them to our daily lives. “…those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba,Father.” The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.”
–Romans 8:14-16
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.”–II Tim 3:16,17

 

[guanophore]

Hey-- I had two questions previously that no one wanted to answer.  They are quite unrelated, except at the core.

The first…Why is it that the one time we have recorded by God in Scripture where someone tried to elevate Mary within earshot of Jesus, this is what happened: “And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.” (Luke 11:27-28) (And interestingly, the woman shouted it out right after Jesus gave a lesson on demons).

Don’t you ever feel a desire to shout out when you hear Truth spoken?

May is blessed to bear the Son of God. However, even more (rather) is she blessed because of her obedience. Not all of us can bear Christ in our womb, but all of us can be blessed by God for obeying in the same manner that Mary did. If we approach the Lord with her attitude of submission (“be it done to me according to your will”) then we will enjoy the blessings that such obedience brings.

Here’s the second question: Why is it that the popular Catholic radio stations play mostly music created by non-Catholics? Just a thought.

Most Catholic music is written for liturgical purposes, and does not commend itself to popular radio. Personally, I think the Protestant songs are often better! We sang a Weselyan hymn at Mass on Sunday.

 

[guanophore]

I do not care if you don’t like it, it was said,

I think that is pride talking. Obviously it was a hurtful statement, and this is a common response to being hurt by someone. You wish you did not care, but you really do care. If you did not care, you would not be hanging on to it!

and its obviously true. Besides, I am going to hell since I am a protestant anyways.

This is disingenuous. You clearly do not believe that it is true.

He didn’t, doesn’t mean I can’t.

My question is, how does the use of that signature Glorify God? I agree, you can use it, you are free to glorify God in the best way you can.

Maybe, I don’t know, haven’t got a class or book yet for Christian History.

Ok, but it does not take a class or a Christian History book to know that it is not a good idea to take names to yourself. What you have done is identify with your abuser/accuser. Do you know the identity of the accuser of the brethren? You have the answer to that one in the best Chrsitian history book available, you Bible.

Not really, I only like 1 catholic in this whole place, and thats cause he has respect and tolerance.

Well, there ya have it! Why not honor that person, by using something he said in your signature, instead of giving honor to falsehoods?

Then you obviously know nothing of my church. I love how you guys judge my church, I am sure you’ve been their dozens of times.

Please do not fall into the prejudice and bigotry that has been perpetrated against you. You are right, I don’t know your church, but I have sojourned in a vast aarray of protestant communities, and I know a few things. I have also never judged your church. In the post you are replying to here, no one was judging your church either.

I obtain my beliefs by reading books, and I don’t care, I like my corrupt bible of mine.

W’hen one feels insulted, it is a common response to get defensive and defiant. this is human nature.

I have no life within me, so I will not change the banner, it shows truth.

It is very spritually damaging, CN, to make negative confessions like this. Words have great power, and taking falsehoods to yourself and proclaiming them publicly has dire consequences. What your banner is showing is the effects of bigotry, and your hurt feelings over it. It is a poor witness to that you claim to embrace.

I am a member of a counterfeit religion. I am corrupt, evil, and in-pure, why when you guys say it, its ok, but when I seem to represent, its bad?

No, CN, it is not ok. It was not ok when it was said, and it is still not ok. You are also falling into the same pride ane prejudice by assignng that offense to all of us. I have never said anything of the kidn to you.

HS? So, you don’t sin?

People do. the Church does not because the Divine elements of her prevent this.

And hatred is a part of human nature too

Yes, it is part of the flesh from which Jesus came to deliver us.

 

[Martin777]

Realcatholicgk:
No, those were good points. I was not suggesting Jesus was insulting his mother. You are right that he was redirecting people to focus on God’s word and obey it. I was just saying that as controversial (in the entire Christian world as praying to Mary is, and in light of how absent from scripture the teaching is, it seems that if it were a valid practice, Jesus would have given us something supporting it. The only one in scripture that we are told to pray to is God, who is high and lifted up. And so when someone tries to elevate Mary…the ONE time it is done in Jesus’ presence that we know of…he issues a mild rebuke to the one speaking. Do you get where I am going with this?

 

[guanophore]

So…As much time as Catholics spend exalting and praying to Mary (It is a MASSIVE part of the church life),

I don’t know what kind of Catholic Church you have been frequenting, but I can tell you that I have been to dozens of parishes in as many States,and all over in my own, and I have yet to find any Catholic Church that has Mary as a “massive part of Church life”.

For Catholics, worship is about the Eucharist. During the Liturgy, there is a request for intercession, but that is it. If it seems to you that there is a “massive” exaltation and prayer to Mary, it is likely that it is happening outside of the Liturgy.

and as important as prayer is, it seems strange that not only did Jesus not instruct on praying to Mary,

You don’t know this, because your knowledge of what He taught is limited to the portion extant in Scripture. However, in that Bible, we see Jesus granting Mary’s intercesson in great abundance, illustrating how careful He is to fulfill her prayers “to the brim”

but the ONE time someone speaks in what we could now call a “Catholic way” about Mary in Jesus’ presence, he directs them away from her altogether.

It must seem that way to those who are reading it with anti-Catholic glasses on. Jesus brings the focus toward Mary,and her perfect obedience to Him. He illustrates that all of us can enter into the great blessing that she has by living the life of obedience that she has. Her attitude “I am the handmaid of the Lord” is the model for all of us.

 It's rather like a mild rebuke.

It seems this way, looking back through 20th century anti-Catholic lenses.

It seems to me that an honest, objective interpretaion of this would show the practice of praying to Mary to be completely contrary to sound biblical scholarship

Well, the Catholic faith has been received from the Apostles,a nd does not find it’s origin in “biblical scholarship”. Our faith comes from Jesus himself, and is not extracted from the pages of a book.

and to the heart of Jesus in the one passage where He was confronted with someone who wished to exalt her!

Do you imagine that Jesus thought Mary was not blessed to be His mother?

I can only imagine how the Catholic church would jump on someone who formed some other doctrine in such a biblically careless way. Hmmm…

And that is all it would be - your active imagination. Catholic doctrines are not formed from the bible. On the contrary, the Bible reflects what the Catholic Church believes and teaches. Our faith was delivered whole and entire before one word of it was written.

And my point about Catholic radio is that it seems non-Catholics produce music that inspires Catholics to tune in, and I don’t think they would otherwise.

Such a statement reveals a prejudice about Catholics. Most Catholics listen to Protestant radio and TV. Many of us have some favorite Protestant preachers. Historically, Catholic resources have been used primarily for the corporate works of mercy, and the media has not been a priority.