The Chosen People

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Please, please please stop posting until you actually know what the catholic church teaches.
To be honest, Church teaching on this subject is as clear as mud.

Does anyone want to take a stab at explaining Church teaching (preferably with some references)? The clearest explanation I’ve found so far was on wikipedia and I hesitate to trust that source on Church dogma.
 
The Jewish people are still God’s chosen people. They are God’s chosen people of the Old Covenant. That has never changed. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

CCC 839 …The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ,” (Romans 9:4-5) “for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable” (Romans 11:29)

God does not go back on his promises. When He called the Jewish people as His chosen people, that call is irrevocable. If He went back on His promise, then what would that mean for us Catholics who are God’s chosen people of the New Covenant? Would He go back on us too especially when He promised to be with us until the end of time? The New Covenant is a fulfillment of the Old Covenant, but the Old Covenant was not abolished especially in regards to the moral law.

As for salvation, we are not the ones to judge who goes to Hell and who goes to Heaven. God is the one to judge, and He will judge people according to what they know.

CCC 847 …Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

Peace be with you,
Selene
 
That is a really great article. I am particularly impressed by the way the author takes on the difficult questions directly and admits the limits of our understanding of scriptures. He is modest in his claims which is appropriate given the seeming contradictions involved.
And no regular author, but a Cardinal of the Church. His brother was the Dulles who worked in Eisenhower’s administration. A talented family. Avery Dulles was quite the scholar before HH JP2 made him a cardinal based on his significant intellectual credentials. He was widely thought to be among the most learned Cardinals in the English-speaking world.

This article was actually published in a journal, the editorial board of which has many erudite Jews like Rabbi David Novak and Midge Decter on it.

It’s been a year since I read it so I will have to reread it tomorrow. God Bless.
 
The ancient Romans could not fathom how, if the God of the Jews was the one almighty God, the Jews had fallen under Rome’s power.

The Roman Empire has long since crumbled to dust. All the other nations and peoples of the Roman empire are no more. Only the Jews remain. It is seemingly impossible that they of all the world’s ancient peoples have survived, but they have. Even more remarkable, that they have survived despite the animosity against them, through centuries of adversity aimed to make them victims for their stubborn insistence to continue to remain being Jews.

The Jews had only themselves and their eternal covenant with God. The Jews survived.

They are no longer a vassal state but have regained sovereignty over their homeland. This too is a seeming impossibility. They regained their independence a mere three years after one third of the Jewish people were destroyed in the genocide of the Shoah. They regained their independence despite being immediately attacked by the armies of five nations. In both cases the world stood by and watched. When Hitler rose to power the world shut their borders to the Jews leaving the Jews to his murderous wrath. During World war II not one country could spare one bomb on even one mission to put Auschwitz out of commission for even a single day. When the Jewish state was attacked not one country sent one soldier to help the survivors of Auschwitz. Instead they imposed arms embargos to prevent the Jews from defending themselves.

The Jews had only themselves and their eternal covenant with God.The Jewish nation was not extinguished forever in the ashes of the Shoah, the Jews won their war of re independence.

That the Jewish state survives today is also a seeming impossibility. It sits on a mere one per cent of the land of the middle east, in an area roughly the size of the state of New Jersey, surrounded by a billion enemies. It could not possibly survive but it does. Despite its precarious position it is seemingly so strong as to be deemed an “aggressor” by those who wish it ill.

The Jews make up a mere one quarter of one per cent of the world’s population. The have only been allowed to integrate within general western society in the last two hundred years. So small in numbers it is a seeming impossibility that Jews should be even seen or felt. However, despite their minuscule numbers their contributions to society are so vast that their enemies accuse them of “controlling the world”.

The ancient Romans could not fathom the God of the Jews. Today, their descendants cannot look at the Jew and not believe in God.

(please do not make any use of the above outside of this forum without permission)
Beautifully stated, chosen people. When I consider the growing number of
Hasidic Gentiles, I am reminded of a verse from Zechariah, 8:23.

Thus says the Lord of hosts: In those days ten men of every nationality, speaking different tongues,
shall take hold, yes, take hold of every Jew by the edge of his garment and say,

“Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.”

reen12
 
:confused::confused::confused: Huh :confused::confused::confused:

Please, please please stop posting until you actually know what the catholic church teaches.

Any cursory glance at threads you partake in will show you in what low esteem your apologetics are held in. You really really really do not know what you are talking about.

Please stop posting and misleading people.
And what would you know about what the Catholic church teaches? You are not Catholic. You THINK you know what she teaches but you don’t know. In fact, this is taught in Scripture.
 
And what would you know about what the Catholic church teaches? You are not Catholic. You THINK you know what she teaches but you don’t know. In fact, this is taught in Scripture.
The Jews were chosen to PRODUCE THE MESSIAH. Jesus said neither Jew nor Greek will come first. Jesus was produced to be led to the Gentiles.
Please show me exactly where in scripture it says that
Jesus was produced
Then show me exactly where in scripture it says Jesus was
produced to be led to the Gentiles.
You said this is taught in scripture. Chapter and verse please.
 
:confused::confused::confused: Huh :confused::confused::confused:

Please, please please stop posting until you actually know what the catholic church teaches.

Any cursory glance at threads you partake in will show you in what low esteem your apologetics are held in. You really really really do not know what you are talking about.

Please stop posting and misleading people.
Please read article 839 of the Catholic Catechism, and the article by Cardinal Dulles as
previously posted.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
Please show me exactly where in scripture it says that

Then show me exactly where in scripture it says Jesus was

You said this is taught in scripture. Chapter and verse please.
You are not Catholic. You have no say in this. Study the Catholic faith and then we’ll talk.
So you are refusing to answer the question :confused:

You said it is in scripture - so chapter and verse please where it says:
OTCA:
Jesus was produced to be led to the Gentiles.
I’m waiting :D:D:D
 
I’ve read them.
I enjoyed your link to the John Salza website. Now it turns out not only that the Freemasons have infiltrated and taken over the Boy scouts but that the Pope’s “homilies are often written by liberal theologians, many of them Judaizers, and don’t come from the pope himself. The pope is surrounded by wolves in sheep’s clothing, and we need to give him the benefit of the doubt”. It’s interesting to note that pre Vatican II Catholics with their pre Vatican II attitudes are not only alive and well they are still being tormented by their same arch villains - Jews, Judaizers, Zionists and Freemasons.
 
The whole of the Bible is where you’ll find it. Common sense. 🤷
For the third time - chapter and verse please where it specifically states:
Originally Posted by OneTrueCathApos
Jesus was produced to be led to the Gentiles.
You said it is in scripture. Where? Where does it say, anywhere in scripture that Jesus was ‘‘produced’’ and the reason he was ‘‘produced’’ was ‘‘to be led to the Gentiles’’.

Over to you 😛 Now, remember, please come back with a chapter and verse answer, not a rant or anti-noncatholic diatripe please 😛
 
So you are refusing to answer the question :confused:

You said it is in scripture - so chapter and verse please where it says:

I’m waiting :D:D:D
If you don’t believe that the Jews are still God’s chosen people, then go argue with God. Don’t argue with us until you’ve learned about Christianity.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
If you don’t believe that the Jews are still God’s chosen people, then go argue with God. Don’t argue with us until you’ve learned about Christianity.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
My question was to OTCA who asserts that Jesus was ‘‘produced’’ to ‘‘be led to the gentiles’’

She further asserts this fact is in scripture.

I’m still waiting for her to show me chapter and verse where I can read these words. :rolleyes:

If you read the thread properly you will see it is OneTrueCathApos that claims, repeatedly, the jews are no longer God’s chosen people. In other words, she believes God went back on his covenant with them :rolleyes:
 
Oh, and by the way, during a long and distinguished military career, followed by a career in social services, I have trained, fought and worked alongside people of every single color creed and denomination, many christians of every hue, many non believers. And yet, I have never heard anyone, ever, refer to Jesus as being ‘‘produced’’.

OneTrueCathApos gets the award for the most disrespectful, disgraceful and downright ignorant remark I have ever heard regarding the birth of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus the Christ.
 
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