The Church is dying and will die

  • Thread starter Thread starter salival
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
From the introduction to Ranke’s “History of the Popes.”

There is not, and there never was on this earth, a work of human policy so well deserving of examination as the Roman Catholic Church. The history of that Church joins together the two great ages of human civilisation. No other institution is left standing which carries the mind back to the times when the smoke of sacrifice rose from the Pantheon, and when camelopards and tigers bounded in the Flavian amphitheatre. The proudest royal houses are but of yesterday, when compared with the line of the Supreme Pontiffs. That line we trace back in an unbroken series, from the Pope who crowned Napoleon in the nineteenth century to the Pope who crowned Pepin in the eighth; and far beyond the time of Pepin the august dynasty extends, till it is lost in the twilight of fable. The republic of Venice came next in antiquity. But the republic of Venice was modern when compared with the Papacy; and the republic of Venice is gone, and the Papacy remains. The Papacy remains, not in decay, not a mere antique, but full of life and youthful vigour. The Catholic Church is still sending forth to the farthest ends of the world missionaries as zealous as those who landed in Kent with Augustin, and still confronting hostile kings with the same spirit with which she confronted Attila. The number of her children is greater than in any former age. Her acquisitions in the New World have more than compensated for what she has lost in the Old. Her spiritual ascendency extends over the vast countries which lie between the plains of the Missouri and Cape Horn, countries which a century hence, may not improbably contain a population as large as that which now inhabits Europe. The members of her communion are certainly not fewer than a hundred and fifty millions; and it will be difficult to show that all other Christian sects united amount to a hundred and twenty millions. Nor do we see any sign which indicates that the term of her long dominion is approaching. She saw the commencement of all the governments and of all the ecclesiastical establishments that now exist in the world; and we feel no assurance that she is not destined to see the end of them all. She was great and respected before the Saxon had set foot on Britain, before the Frank had passed the Rhine, when Grecian eloquence still flourished at Antioch, when idols were still worshipped in the temple of Mecca. And she may still exist in undiminished vigour when some traveller from New Zealand shall, in the midst of a vast solitude, take his stand on a broken arch of London Bridge to sketch the ruins of St. Paul’s.
 
40.png
salival:
Really? Then why do we see this happening everywhere?

Why do we see it’s message being repudiated and ignored? It is only growing in those less developped countries. But that is just because those countries have not reached the same stage as Europe and USA, hell it is starting to die in South America already. Just as the country gets more technologically advanced and gains more knowledge and as science advances Catholicism is eroded, withers and dies. The example is clear in those two countries and in Canada as well.

It is as if knowledge destroys Catholciism.
“those two countries” you say
hmmmm meaning the USA andddd…Europe? South America perhaps? :hmmm: sorry, getting confused here
 
Wow, I wish I had a dollar for every time someone said that in the last 2000 years…Look, the Church has outlasted every government or regime that tried to shut her down. If the Church in America gets smaller, well, so what? It’s AmChurch that’s dying, the Protestantized, relativized, wishy-washy, nice cafeteria-style Church that doesn’t ask too much of busy Americans. Authentic, orthodox Catholicism will survive, just as it always has—how big that Church will be is anyone’s guess.

I don’t understand your perspective, to be perfectly frank. Are you saying that Jesus was wrong when He said the Church would survive? Hope is a necessary theological virtue that you seem to have thrown out the window—why? Does that make it easier for you to give up challenging yourself or the culture?
 
salival: The Church is dying and will die…

No, it won’t. It is impossible for that to happen.

The Church is not dying, the Church is not the one who is confused, the world is. The Church has always been incorruptible and intact, perfect, solid and stable. In spite of the deviance of those within and without her bossom. It is us that err, not The Church, it is people who fall away, wither and die, not The Church. It is use who fail to live up to God’s standar and The Church’ s message.

The Church cannot be destroyed, it cannot die. The Church has always been persecuted since the begining, yet that was 2000 years ago and The Church still stands, intact and as immutable and incorruptible as ever.

What you see is a lot of noise OUTSIDE The Church, increas in modernism has confused the mind of the people and have in some way put obstacles on The Church and her message. But that is nothing The Church has not faced before, the thing is that it becomes more televised these days.

It gives me ever more confidence in The Church to see how and why it is the only thing people attack, nobody attacks the muslims, the hindus, buddhist or pagans. It is all Christinaity in general and of course The Catholic Church in particular. The world hates the Truth, the world doesn’t likes God, so we cannot think that the wolrd will like his Church which is the pillar and foundationg of objective truth.
 
The church goes through phases, and some are much more difficult to deal with than others (which is a good time to pray for the guidance of the Holy Spirit).

In the meantime, read A Canticle for Leibowitz. I love that book, and it shows a very extreem case of trials that the church could go through.
 
40.png
salival:
It is as if knowledge destroys Catholciism.
Knowledge destroys Catholicism? :confused:

Knowledge of WHAT?

On the contrary, I say that ignorance is what is driving people away from The Church. ignorance of the Truth, lack of common sense, faulty reasoning, etc. Most people educate themselves from movies, music and popular propaganda these days. They don’t really read up or learn about any form of history and much less Church history.

There is nothing “smart” about the culture of death.
 
Two things to keep in mind…
  1. Even if 4 people remain true to the faith, then the faith is still alive and well… The number of people doesnt matter, its that there are people that have faith. Pesonally, I know i will remain faithful till my dying days… Therefore, if everyone else turns and I alone remain, the church is still alive and well (of coarse it would also be my burden to spread the word)
Hopefully this will not happen though
  1. IF we are in the final stages of the catholic church, this is even better. That means we are in the Great Apostacy. And that will mean that Christ is very close.
Either way…

The church lives on
 
It’s a strange thing, the development of technology has strengthened my Catholic Faith.

If I had not found Catholic Answers, as well as other Catholic boards, I’d still have been the lukewarm catholic that I was about 5 or 6 years ago. Coming to places like these, where Catholics gather and share information, and debates, had taught me to research and to learn from other Catholics, as well as to search on non-catholic sites.

This technology is a binder that brings hope to the Church, as I’m sure that I’m not the only one here who has felt its effects.

The Church may SEEM like it’s “dying” but it’s becoming stronger in these forums.
 
You could of said that about the catholic church at the begging. A few people, no state help (state persuction), and a whole list of other things. You could have said it was the end then but, guess what? you would have been wrong. During the middle ages you could have said it’s over for the Catholic Church. The moslems are spreading like wild fire and it wont be long before the get europe.But, guess what? You would have been wrong agian. Same thing about the reformation. Scandal is out, new man in town. Still wrong. The Catholic Church does go through phases. This is a low phase but, just you watch she’ll be back and you know what? We will still be saying you were wrong.
 
KNOWLEDGE doesn’t destroy catholicism in a society. LUXURY and self-indulgence does.

I would make the claim that the average American today is no more knowledgeable than 150 years ago. Sure, you have rocket scientists today. But we also have pot-head beach bums!

Sit back and watch. Whether it is a economic depression, huge earthquake, deadly plague, or terrible war; this country will eventually come on hard times. The luxuries will be taken away. Then people will come to their senses and look for REAL meaning in life.
 
As long a one properly ordained Catholic Priest exists the Church will not die.

The Church existed in Japan for 200 hundred years without seeing

a priest and survived to be reborn

The Church in China is growing in the face of massive persecutions

The Romans killed and imprisoned Popes and we survived.

Many petty middle-age kings tried to iliminate the Church putting Popes in jail or causing them to flee Rome we survived

Napolean, Hitler, and the Communist also tried and failed.

Will we suffer? Yes

Does it take genuine faith to walk our walk? Yes

But “The Gates of Hell will not prevail”
 
The Church is not dying, and it will not die! Christ told the his apostles that His Church would resist the attacks of evil, and it has for over 2000 years. Don’t you understand, Salival? God is always with the Church. He has always been, and he will always be. Don’t you understand? Strength isn’t in numbers, but “in the faith of a few.”

Christ would not establish a Church on earth for it to die in 2000 years. Salival, you have been horribly blinded by the dark cloak of evil.

You say that modernism will help kill the Church. Why don’t you actually THINK?! We have a conservative Pope who is going to put a stop to this “plague of modernism.” What makes you think that the Church won’t live through this plague? A few excommunications and silences and the plague is stopped. A few international condemnations and the plague is stopped.

The lack of respect that the Church is there, I agree, but it won’t take the Church down.

You also say that Islam is going to take down the Church after so many attempts. How are they going to do this? Is Allah going to fight GOD?! Is a false god going to fight the One True God AND WIN?!?! Is a religion led by Muhammed’s teachings going to take down the One True Religion led by the teachings of CHRIST?! I think not! You, as I said it before, have been blinded by evil.

Why won’t the Church die? Because God’s on our side, and remember this statement, a statement which CHRIST HIMSELF UTTERED: “Whatever you hold true on earth, so will I hold true in Heaven.” Or, how about: “I will send the Holy Spirit to be with you always.”

Do you think that the Church is just 1.7 BILLION people primed for death? Do you really think that? Honestly, do you!?!? The Church is 1.7 BILLION strong, with the FORCES OF HEAVEN on our side! 1.7 billion humans and the One True God.

THE. ONE. TRUE. GOD. Does that ring a bell, Salival? It’s people like you, with your UTTER LACK OF FAITH that have lead the attacks on the Church, a lack of faith in the Church’s relationship with God.

Salival, I pray that your eyes are opened and that you can realize your complete ignorance.
 
40.png
Valz:
There are not 1.7 Billion Catholics, at least I do not think.
Over 1.7 billion practicing Christians is the statistic that I know, so I just rounded down and switched to “Catholics”
 
Christ died, and now He lives!

We die to self that we may live in Christ.
“He that loses his life for my sake shall find it.”

Who has not heard the saying that the blood of martyrs is the seed of the Church? …Persecute us and we grow.
The Church is dying, do you say? Why then, soon comes the Resurrection!:dancing:
 
40.png
marvin:
As long as one Catholic draws breath, the Church survives.
jjoshjl:
Even if 4 people remain true to the faith, then the faith is still alive and well… The number of people doesnt matter, its that there are people that have faith. Pesonally, I know i will remain faithful till my dying days… Therefore, if everyone else turns and I alone remain, the church is still alive and well (of coarse it would also be my burden to spread the word)
40.png
gus:
As long a one properly ordained Catholic Priest exists the Church will not die.
Hey! Let’s not forget that the CHURCH is the Church Triumphant, the Church Militant and the Church Suffering.

There are many more members of the Church than you can count. 🙂
 
Why do you not believe the words of Jesus Christ and trust in the wisdom of the Holy Spirit? Jesus promised that the Church would last until the end of time. The gates of hell will not prevail against it. Read Church history of the tenth century. If the Church could survive that period, it can and will survive our current problems. Islam has been attacking Christianity since its origin in the 7th century. The 20th century was the most violent period in the history of the world and, yet, the Church survives. Rest assured that when Christ returns at the end of the world, the Church will still be here, even if the number of adherents is few. Keep the faith, pray, and persevere.
 
You should come to where I live. The Church is growing so much here that we’re having to build new churches to accomodate us all!
 
40.png
salival:
Also, wanted to add. Another thing is the theory of evolution. It completelly destroys the Adam and Eve along with Original Sin story and weakens, in fact completelly debunks the fundations of Catholicism.
Ok assume Adam and Eve are not historical, Jesus himself taught with parables. If the creation narrative is not historic what is the parable behind it… :hmmm: …that God created everything.

Besides you can try the theory of evolution all you want but it can’t explain the big bang (kind of reminds me of “Let there be light” 👍 )

Beebs
 
40.png
salival:
Also, wanted to add. Another thing is the theory of evolution. It completelly destroys the Adam and Eve along with Original Sin story and weakens, in fact completelly debunks the fundations of Catholicism.
Just a reminder that evolution is a theory . That means that it has not been proved. It is a possible explanation for things.

Peace,
Linda
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top