The Church is in rapid decline

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beischel said:
For example. the Church offers mental health counseling. Why? Those services are already offered in the private sector.
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The corporal works of mercy or in essential part of the life of the church. What that looks like in various times and places, differs.

Ironically you were complaining because you think the church is doing too much in the area of the corporal works of mercy. Last week there was a woman on this forum complaining that they weren’t doing enough. She went to the church for social services, and was referred to the local secular social services because in her diocese they did not have all the resources she needed.

Ironically you were complaining because you think the church is doing to much in the area of the corporal works of mercy. Last week there was a woman on this forum and complaining that they weren’t doing enough. She went to the church for social services, and was referred to the local secular social services because in her diocese they did not have all the resources she needed.
 
Aquinas11 said:
No because not only do we need priest as mediator to God but practically going to God directly on our own removes essential element of accountability. It’s much difficult to share with another in addition to God but also more rewarding. A problem shared is a problem halved, as saying goes. Plus as a sinner I can’t trust my mind alone to distinguish the true thoughts from false rationalizing thoughts about sin, hence need objective third party
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This may be true for you and for many others. However it is not true for everybody.
 
beischel said:
First, the Pope has become very political. The fact has he has gotten into the farce of man-made global warming is proof of that. Second, Argentina was run by left-wing Socialist dictators. At the beginning of the 20th Century, Argentina was one of the most prosperous countries in South American. Then, like the U.S., it started moving to Socialism with policies like healthcare of all and a host of other disastrous social programs. The country went into ruins and has never really recovered.
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I think rather the example of South America proves that left wing and right wing are more or less the same thing. Throughout much of the 20th Century, the left and right wings have been fighting to control as many South American countries as possible, occasionally with actual weapons but all the time on the ideological front. But if you look at their actual policies once in power, there was very little visible difference. Both sides believed in spending vast sums of money they could ill afford to create the illusion that the state was doing something for the poor, while in reality driving them into deeper dependency. One real difference being that the right wing was friendlier towards the Catholic Church.
 
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The OP comes across as very American-centric and out of touch with the global Church… which is certainly in a state of decline in some regions and in a state of growth and renewal in others.
The Church is global, has a billion members, and has stood for 2000 years. The Church has seen civilizations come and go. The very American sentiments expressed by the OP are at odds with what the Church is… the Church will never be a democracy. The USA may someday fall, democracy as we know it may cease to exist… and the Church will endure as she always has.
 
Just to add…I think sometimes we forget that Christ told us of things to come, and they weren’t pretty…persecution and apostasy…falling away. Amongst other nastiness as the earth groans in pain.

I am not suggesting we all be fatalist, but sometimes I think we forget that Christ is returning.
That somehow there are those who believe *we* can “right the ship” and fill the churches and bring everything back to the glory days.
That we need to evolve and change in order to fill the coffers and be more accepting, not so prejudice in our attitudes to say female priest, etc.

Scripture just doesn’t teach this. It teaches us to be strong, to stand firm. Regardless if there is nary a seat filled…we are to hold fast.

He is faithful, we for the most part are worms.

2 Thessalonians 2

2 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers 2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Stand Firm

13 But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. 14 To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.

16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father, who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, 17 comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
 
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What the church needs is more holy men and women. People who are saints, offering the infinite merit of Jesus Christ to God the father to repair for the sins of the world.

Men and women who bring Christ into their daily duties. Who serve their families, their workplace, their neighbors. Who do a morning offering and their entire live serves for the conversion of sinners and peace in this world as our Blessed Mother asked at Fatima.

Imposters came into the church to gain access to the sheep and pull the bricks of the church down one by one. To have the faithful say ‘give us married priest, give us women priests’ makes them smile. Now the faithful are helping them. The imposters are the ones who made sure that faithful, pious, rosary praying men did not come into the church. Only God can weed out the cockroaches now they are so buried into the wood of the structure.

We have a choice. Are we going to stand at the foot of the cross of Jesus Christ and ask for graces on the world? Or are we going to help the imposters pull the bricks down so the decay goes faster? Make sure you know what side you’re on.
 
Pretty much the entire Western World. Africa and Asia are the only areas where it is growing.
 
Well, I’m not gonna try and reinvent the Church. It works for me. :man_shrugging:t2:
 
beischel said:
I was always in favor of married priests. At one time we had married priests in the early Church years. Eastern Rite has married priests and it works there just fine.
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I agree with allowing married priests.
 
Well done, you’ve summarized it well. The church’s primary responsibility should be in raising and grooming families. They are more concerned with climate change and immigration rather than catechizing people(no needed anymore as lay Catholics have stepped up…with catholic answers , ewtn , formed etc).

Education even in Catholic colleges have been ‘taken over’ by the left , especially the Jesuit ones.
 
beischel said:
Third, the Church needs to change how it is managed. The days of dictatorial powers by the Church hierarchy has to stop. It is our money that runs the parishes. We need to have a greater say in how our parishes are run, what churches close and which stay open, who will be our pastor and when WE need the pastor changed.
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The Church is not, and should not be in my opinion, a democracy. Authority comes from Christ, through his bishops, and delegated by the bishops to the priests under his jurisdiction. This authority is by nature top down, not bottom up. The notion that the laity ought to decide who their pastor should be or when he should be changed would seem to (in my opinion) to be turning the concept of authority on its head. By what authority do we have to do this?
 
If the Church had probably dealt with the sex abuse crisis and not had to pay over 4 billion dollars to settle those cases there would be more money.
 
No, don’t leave, just don’t give money to the errant bishops and the vatican. Tithe elsewhere, money seems to get their attention. Why else would mcCarrick be allowed to be around?
 
The marital state of priests is Church discipline. In my opinion as a common layperson, the Church must consider all legitimate options for the reform of our clerical hierarchy. That doesn’t mean advocating for the married priesthood, it means prayerfully considering all the legitimate options. I personally think it’s a good idea. It address a couple of problems directly.

The decline in the Church is simply due to the lure of “the world”. Our culture no longer supports faith, and is in fact radically antagonistic to faith. And so because we are weak sinners, we fall away.
The good news is:
Christ has the victory, no matter how many butts are in the pews currently. The Church is the Body of Christ.
 
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Nothing concrete will happen at that meeting in February. It’s a smokescreen. At best you’ll get a document like Amoris Laetetia which will be vague and can be interpreted in a hundred ways
 
There are women rabbis in the Reconstructionist, Reform and Conservative Jewish movements in the US.
 
You are a Protestant.
You don’t have a clear understanding of why the Church teaches what it does.
I love confession actually.
 
Salmonslayer - OK so all the apostles were men. So by your logic, all priests should be men; is that correct?

Using that logic, since some of the apostles were married, then priests should also be allowed to choose if they want to be married.

Matthew 8:14-15 - Jesus heals Peter’s mother-in-law.
 
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