The church isnt for toddlers....?

[Xantippe]

UbiCaritas said:

“1) Try to get to a Mass that happens right during naptime when it’s possible. I know it won’t always be, but for now it is, and having her spend the first 40 minutes asleep makes everything easier for all of us.”

Big babies and toddlers generally aren’t that obliging. There’s about a 1-2 year period when all they want to do is MOVE nonstop. (This is coincidentally the period of time when I do not believe in any substantial travel with small children–between 10 months and 3 years old, I do not believe in more than a night or two away from home.)

You have roughly about 8 months of smooth sailing left. Enjoy it!

“I maintain a polite but firm, don’t-mess-with-me demeanor if someone near me is unhappy about the fact that my daughter is, for example, sucking hard on a pacifier.”

Wow–sucking hard on a pacifier disturbs people in your parish. That’s a new one to me.

You’re also correct that a lot of parishes have problems with people who position themselves right at the end of the pew (maybe they’ve got medical issues, maybe not), as if the middle of the pew was booby-trapped with explosives.

I have nearly 12 years of Mass-going experience with children at this point.

 

[gatorsmom]

No offense to Ubicaritas, but I find that parents of just one or two kids, usually are the most eager to give advice to other parents. My best friend has 8 children (16 years old to 1year old) and she says she has no right to give advice. Every child is different, every family is different and nothing is predictable. Add in a child with special needs and you just have to do whatever you can.

We go to an extremely traditional church and my youngest son has a disorder that makes him extremely sensitive to loud noise. As a toddler we punished him with timeouts and even spanking when he would throw himself around in mass, scream, run up and down the aisles and throw the books at strangers. He was too little to understand what was bothering him and too little to explain. We found out he was in extreme pain due to the noise. Once we started having him wear noise-canceling headphones in mass, he was an angel. But since he is a twin, and my husband travels for work, very often I had to walk up to the alter for communion holding both their hands. Henry walked right up to the from with his headphones on. I cannot TELL you the terrible dirty looks we got EVEN on the way to communion!!! Our parish priest was fine with it- in fact, it was the local archbishop who suggested it!

I agree with my friend and bitterhope- no one should be giving anyone advice or judging another parent. What works for one child won’t always work for another. Parents who are truly living the church’s teaching and have many children will be judged no matter what they do. Even for something as innocent as feeding their child Cheerios (which in my opinion are the least fussy food possible for kids-they aren’t greasy or messy and even if crushed they vacuum up easily.). The next time you see a Cheerio on a church floor smile-it means someone with a child came to church!

 

[Xantippe]

Another thing about the Cheerios–bear in mind that part of the reason that infants are so great in church is that they often spend a big chunk of the Mass sucking on a breast or bottle. But just a few months later, when they’re small toddlers, we’re expecting them to go cold turkey and make it through a whole Mass with nothing.

My oldest’s godfather (a father of five) suggests Cheerios, but administered straight in the mouth, one at a time and widely spaced out.

 

[UbiCaritas]

No offense taken. I know I have a lot to learn and that things will change a good deal as kiddo gets older and as younger siblings come along.

To be honest, I don’t think I expressed myself as well as I could have. My post was more geared towards an attitude the poster could take, rather than specific instructions for her situation. I explained what works for me right now, but more so as to give background, lest readers think that I let kiddo shriek hysterically through Mass; I wanted to explain that once I’ve taken reasonable steps to ensure my daughter will disturb as few people as possible, I try my best not to let the opinions of the other people in the church bother me. If I did, and if we had as many kids as we hope to have, my DH and I would either never attend Mass together for the next twenty years, or I would never attend Mass for the next twenty years. Not really an option, either of them, so rather than get so miserable and upset as I did the first couple of weeks, I do what I can to mitigate the disturbance and then ignore those who will object to, say, a baby enthusiastically slurping a pacifier. The post was about that principle rather than “if you just schedule Mass during naptime, all will go well!”

I know that this blissful period of baby-naps-through-much-of-Mass won’t last forever…which I suppose is a good thing in the long run, though I’m not sure I’ll always see it quite that way in a year or so.

And gator(name removed by moderator)–sorry to hear the reaction to your son’s headphones, though I’m also sorry to say I’m not that surprised as I attended traditional parishes much of my life. Approaching OT, but I note with amusement that the single worst-behaved family I ever met actually, contrary to stereotype, attended one such parish; the parents had some wacky idea that since the age of reason is seven, their under-seven-year-olds, of which they had several, were incapable of sinning and therefore were never even corrected, much less punished, for bad behavior. Throw in their tendency to sit in the front pew, and you had kids having screaming arguments and even fistfights during Mass while the parents simply ignored the situation…yeah. twitches I’m sure that anyone reading this who has any experience with kids is shocked to hear that the over-seven-year-olds weren’t exactly models of good behavior, either.

Frankly, if I saw a kid with headphones, I’d assume that he was in a similar situation to your son, but that’s probably because I worked as a mother’s helper/therapy assistant for an autistic kid throughout high school. Wouldn’t get a second look from me–unless, of course, I could hear a bass beat from four pews away. Like I said with the cheerios–I don’t think I’ll do it, I don’t like it for several reasons, but I’m rather too busy with my own kid to judge or give a hard time to those parents who do use them. And who knows? In a year, you might see me sitting in church and, somewhat red-facedly, pulling a bag of cheerios from my purse to feed to my daughter to keep her quiet. It seems to me that parenting is a process of constant reassessment. I will say that I like Xantippe’s description of administering them one at a time rather than handing a bored kid a bagful of cheerios to be chucked about at will…

 

[Xantippe]

UbiCaritas said:

“Throw in their tendency to sit in the front pew”

That’s standard advice for families with children (in order to make sure they have something more interesting to look at than adult backs), but probably not meant to be combined with the sort of laissez faire you describe.

 

[TheLastUnicorn]

None of the churches I grew up in had cry rooms, and parents with small children just took their children out or to the back if they were a disruption. I never interpreted the lack of cry rooms as a sign that kids were unwelcome. A lot of older churches don’t have them or have nurseries instead. I was always sent to the nursery until I was old enough not to be a disruption, and I think that was actually a good thing. It made me think of going to church as a privilege and a big girl thing, and I loved going to church with all my heart when I was finally allowed to go.

But anyway, please don’t take the lack of cry rooms personally. It seems like most older churches don’t have them. It seems like they are kind of a recent innovation, and personally I don’t think they’re that great. At the parish I used to attend, the door was left open half of the time anyway, and then they also had glass walls that the small children banged on throughout most of the Mass. And then half of the parents with small kids didn’t sit in the cry room anyway or leave when their kids were howling, so that between the banging and the howling and crying, I couldn’t hear much of went on at Mass even when the cry room door was closed.

At least at the parish I go to now, there isn’t a cry room, so the parents usually either get up and distract their small kids or feed them or whatever is necessary. At any rate, maybe cry rooms are used better at other parishes, but they really didn’t work at my old one. Sorry you’re getting dirty looks though.

 

[lily22]

Change cultures… lol. Go to a Spanish mass. Go to a mass where the congregation are less judgmental/rude

Go to a mass where there are noisy kids in the church and no one cares about it getting out of control. Go to a place where the kids can run up and down and no-one cares.

I’ve seen some Spanish family masses that have tons of kids, no air-conditioning, and are loud.

The music is absolutely uplifting, and you will not miss anything from the change of language, I even have come to understand most of it and I love the “Santos”

 

[fm1982]

I take my 4 kids (8, 6, 4, 2.5) to Mass on my own every Sunday.

Often people will come up to me after Mass and compliment me on doing this. Sometimes I know there are people who may not appreciate their liveliness (the 2.5 year old mainly), but if those people are seriously disturbed, all I can do is pray for them. As others have said, kids are the future of the Church and if they’re not coming, the Church will die with all the grumps who don’t want kids there. Pray for those grumpy people that they learn to see the joy in having children at Mass rather than seeing them as a problem.

I feel like I do have to have a thick skin to do it, but I’m willing to deal with dirty looks to make sure my kids are exposed to Mass and our faith.

My 2.5 year old usually makes it now to just past the homily before needing a little break, so I’ll take her for a walk in the back. I don’t use the crying room, nor do I sit in the back of the Church (behind glass) because the experience isn’t the same. If others prefer crying rooms, go for it. Kids will learn the expectations and really will try to meet them. If Mass is a regular part of their routine, they’ll learn how to behave. I go over expectations every week on the way to Mass and they do their best to meet them.

My oldest had her First Communion on Saturday and after an hour and a half Mass, the two youngest made it just fine and weren’t disruptive.

A couple of weeks ago while the priest was giving the Homily, he was talking about how Jesus walks with us through every sort of difficulty we face in our lives. Right on cue, my 2.5 year old shouts out “Oh my gosh!” which elicited laughter from the congregation, the priest played with it and said “yes it is Oh my gosh!, He really is with you all the time, I know that’s more surprising to some than others” while I was turning as red as a person gets. It wasn’t a bad thing and now makes for a funny story.

Keep taking little ones to Church. They’re the future of the Church and we need them. You might need a thick skin to do it at times, but it’s all worth it.

 

[retire_early]

On behalf of all the “old bats”, “grumpy” so-and-so’s, and every other uncharitable name you want to call your fellow worshippers, I would like to say that Cheerios were not used in church from 1942 - 1965, a period that covers the baby boom generation and then some.

During this time, babies and children in the pews probably outnumbered adults. Everyone got along. Nobody was howling or running up and down the aisles or tearing up missalettes. Children cried and fussed and wiggled around. Some used the cry room, some didn’t. Rarely did children get taken outside. There was a general background hum going on of children moving around and making sounds, but nothing over the top that would make others distracted. Old bats may have frowned, but nobody noticed; everyone was praying or tending to baby.

Nope, sorry, food and drinks (other than a baby bottle) were just not seen during Mass. And, somehow, the baby boomers and their parents survived
.
The old bats probably went home after Mass and poured themselves a bowl of Cheerios.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

On behalf of all the “old bats”, “grumpy” so-and-so’s, and every other uncharitable name you want to call your fellow worshippers, I would like to say that Cheerios were not used in church from 1942 - 1965, a period that covers the baby boom generation and then some.

During this time, babies and children in the pews probably outnumbered adults. Everyone got along. Nobody was howling or running up and down the aisles or tearing up missalettes. Children cried and fussed and wiggled around. Some used the cry room, some didn’t. Rarely did children get taken outside. There was a general background hum going on of children moving around and making sounds, but nothing over the top that would make others distracted. Old bats may have frowned, but nobody noticed; everyone was praying or tending to baby.

Nope, sorry, food and drinks (other than a baby bottle) were just not seen during Mass. And, somehow, the baby boomers and their parents survived
.
The old bats probably went home after Mass and poured themselves a bowl of Cheerios.

My one grandmother never carried Cheerios to Mass. She always brought a bag full of candy. (We have to fight my mom over this now because she does it with our kids.) My dad has many fond memories of he and his siblings provoking one another until one of them finally angered their dad to the point that he dragged them outside, beat them, then brought them back in. It was a game they played every Sunday. And both my parents had to deal with the nuns who, even on Sundays, would go around and use the clicker or a swift right hand on the kids who were acting up. This was in the 50s and early 60s, and none of them had the benefit of cry rooms. Sure, they recall the idyllic Sunday perfection you mention with the angelic children and the babies who might make the occasional whimper but never cry out loud, until they get into story mode and we hear what really happened.

 

[Xantippe]

Also, as was mentioned upthread, it was a shorter Mass.

 

[chemaeslay]

I’m more offended by parishes that have cry rooms…Jesus told us to bring the children to him, not lock them in a sound proof booth. Our youngest is 32, we’re pushing 60, but my wife and I purposely attend family mass because of, not in spite of, God’s most precious gift go children, and besides, “if you don’t hear babes crying, the church must be dying”!

Peace and all good!

Well!! My children are being brought to Him!! Even in the sound proof room, They are still at mass in the presence of Jesus! And theyre not locked in there. You make it sound like a prison. You just don’t understand. You would have to live a day in my shoes and then you would totally understand why I sit in the sound proof room during mass!
God bless you!

 

[chemaeslay]

The thing she said that really bothered me was, " I just want to say this and maybe some non contracepting family’s or moms will agree with me on this." I took that to mean that if we don’t agree with her we must be contracepting. I’m actually pretty offended by that, and I’m sure others whose families would be larger if not due to miscarriages or fertility problems would feel the same way.

I am very sorry. I did not intend to bother you or offend you., for that I am truely sorry. (My family would have 2 more children in it if it weren’t for miscarriages. One of these m.c. the baby was 7 months old and passed away 30 min after birth. So I know how that goes) When I wrote this I was just thinking about the 20% of us catholics that do NOT contracept because most of us have alot of children (( this is based on the people I know that use nfp and the stuff I hear on EWTN)) and therefore would probably agree that the cry room is very nice to have as an option I know that there are some ppl that aren’t using bc that will disagree with me about the cry room. Hope that made some sort of sence. Sorry for having offended you. God Bless, Crystal

If they are too young to understand it what is the point of bringing them would be my question.

The point being that I as the mother am obligated to bring my children up in the church and show them the way to heaven. How will I accomplish this if theyre at home playing memory and watching Sponge Bob?! I know they may be to young to understand. But, they are more smart than we give them credit for. They are getting familiar with mass now because I have been bringing them with me from day one. God Bless you

People who roll their eyes, whisper, look daggers in church because other people have children, those people disgust me. Sorry strong words I know, but I think they do great harm to the Church. They serve on the basis of their self-indulgence to drive children from the church literally in that moment, to make it a difficult and uncomfortable experience to actually bring your children which ultimately has led to my wife not wanting to come to mass, they shoot hostility at small children growing up and ultimately teach tiny impressionable people that church is a sad, grumpy or even scary place. They also, did they know it, infuriate other churchgoers with their grumpy sombre behaviour when they do it, which is not what should be happening.

I have actually walked out of mass before because of the dirty looks and whispering and pointing. All because my baby was cooing… So, I totally get it. Don’t let it totally drive you away from the church though. I have learned from some of the threads that we should just ignore those…how do I say this… um… ignore those meanies at mass and just concentrate on Jesus! Don’t even look at other people and that way you won’t see the eyes rolling and the fingers pointing:shrug:. God Bless you!

 

[chemaeslay]

Change cultures… lol. Go to a Spanish mass. Go to a mass where the congregation are less judgmental/rude

Go to a mass where there are noisy kids in the church and no one cares about it getting out of control. Go to a place where the kids can run up and down and no-one cares.

I’ve seen some Spanish family masses that have tons of kids, no air-conditioning, and are loud.

The music is absolutely uplifting, and you will not miss anything from the change of language, I even have come to understand most of it and I love the “Santos”

Why would I want to go to such a mass. Kids being disrespectful… That sounds terrifying! I would not want my children observing that kind of behavior and thinking they can act like that in mass.
(it sounds to me that you aren’t very fond of the Spanish mass. Like all Spanish people let their kids get out of control at mass and no one cares. I’m soo sure! If anything the Spanish people are obviously doing things right., no b.c., love their faith and live it everyday, and they are some of the most devote Catholics I have ever met) I have been to a Spanish mass a number of times and I was surprised., the children there were genuflecting, saying all the prayers and singing in Latin. They were very well behaved. But, there were (of course) a few that weren’t being so well behaved…
Regardless of ethnicity, There are going to be well behaved and misbehaved children at every mass. Catholics are well known for having rather large families so, I just think there should be more c.r. and people should not make me feel unwelcome when i sit in the main pews with three babies and one of them farts! lol… just saying…
God Bless you!

 

[chemaeslay]

Thank you all for the great responses. Whether you agreed with me or not, it was all good feedback from all sorts of different aspects. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
So, I suppose I will mostly just stick with the parish we are at now because they do, indeed, have a great cry room and the other children that are in there with us are respectful and kind. But, in the near future I will want to migrate and try out some other parishes. When this happens, I will simply ignore everyone’s opinions about my children and devote my attention to God (and my kiddos, of course).
I will not ever leave my children behind for any reason. They are a part of the church family as much as you and I. They are also our future priests and popes and nuns:thumbsup:. Just for the record, my children are NOT angels nor are they helians! They know the difference between mass and the Mcdonalds Play Land! They just sometimes talk in mass or cry or coo or… fart! I cannot help it. They are babies and know no better. Sometimes people would look at me as if they were saying “Shut that thing up, put tape on his mouth or something.” No I can’t read minds or anything but I am human and I understand body language! And I for surely know when I am not wanted and I have felt this far to many times at mass of all places! It’s very sad!
The reason I started this post is to see how other people felt about bringing their toddlers to mass. I am relieved to know that I am not alone when it comes to some big meanie heads trying to drive you out of the church. I love the cry room and I will stay in it until the children are a bit older. I totally understand the other side of it though and why you would not want to use the c.r. But, you gotta do whats best for your individual family and for mine the cry room is idea ., given our situation. Would I like to sit in the main pews with everyone else…? YES! I would love that. But, I just can’t for now until the toddlers are bit older.
Bitterhope, Thank you for backing me up on a lot of things. It seems you and I have a lot in common and have been in similar situations. Thank you for everything!

PS. If any one out there has a toddler or baby that is absolutely PERFECT during mass, please tell me, I would like to meet you!!!

Anyways, thanks again for the feedback! God Bless all of you and your families!!!

 

[retire_early]

My one grandmother never carried Cheerios to Mass. She always brought a bag full of candy. (We have to fight my mom over this now because she does it with our kids.) My dad has many fond memories of he and his siblings provoking one another until one of them finally angered their dad to the point that he dragged them outside, beat them, then brought them back in. It was a game they played every Sunday. And both my parents had to deal with the nuns who, even on Sundays, would go around and use the clicker or a swift right hand on the kids who were acting up. This was in the 50s and early 60s, and none of them had the benefit of cry rooms. Sure, they recall the idyllic Sunday perfection you mention with the angelic children and the babies who might make the occasional whimper but never cry out loud, until they get into story mode and we hear what really happened.

Yeah, Gordon, I hear ya…but you’ve got to realize, we lived in an actual city.