The church will become small ...She will no longer be able to inhabit many of the edifices she built [like CAF]

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HerCrazierHalf said:
How is community different than pressure?
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In a word?

Trust.

Communities begin with families. Start with a healthy family. The kids obey the parents because they trust their parents to do what is best for them. My daughter is sitting here next to me because she trusts me completely, not because she is afraid of what will happen if she doesn’t obey me. Conversely, in an unhealthy family, the parents rely entirely on pressure through discipline and coercion to get the kids to do what they want.

Trust only exists when there are shared beliefs. Husbands and wives have to trust each other in order to lower their defenses and share everything in common. That isn’t possible when they don’t agree on what is right or wrong. They can’t give what they don’t have. So their kids have no basis on which to learn to trust their parents, and in turn, they are unable to trust anyone else.

Here is an explanation from Archbishop Chaput:
Even the best process depends on the character of the people who live it. The American project needs a virtuous people. A free market economy requires trust. The people who buy and sell must be trustworthy in order for the system to work. No organizational structure can make up for dishonest people. Regulatory agencies and courts mean very little in a morally crippled culture. American life worked so well because of the moral ideals that undergirded it and the behaviors it required. Those ideals and behaviors were rooted in faith.
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Get rid of the faith and then you lose virtue… and all that holds society together is pressure.
 
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HerCrazierHalf said:
And what about those who disagree with the community?
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A community by definition agrees on morality. Once you have disagreements on morality you no longer have a community. This is the inherent problem with trying to evangelize through dialogue, and by extension, by trying to build a community on vague notions of human fraternity as Pope Francis has done in Fratelli Tutti.

https://www.cfnews.org.uk/interview-on-fratelli-tutti-with-bishop-athanasius-schneider/
 
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0Scarlett_nidiyilii said:
I’m not so sure CAF was ever as high profile as some people seem to think.

I’ve never been to a Church or parish that publishes “online resources” that even mentions it.

I myself stumbled across it by accident and decided to join.

But it barely blips the radar of the Web
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For a long time when I did Google searches, the Catholic forums site would be shown on Google but not for at least a year now.

Some would have us believe that it is toxic but Catholics have always been divided on issues in politics so I do not take that to heart. Most of the people on this forums that are practicing Catholics even if they vote for Biden do not support abortion and those that vote for Trump support programs for the poor.

Some have called for the removal of World news and much as I like both sides of the story told, I would be fine with that. Still that would have not stopped the trolls from coming to the site and posting all kinds of uncatholic misinformation. It may have been easier for them to maintain if they kept the forums smaller with limited threads,
 
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gam197 said:
Some have called for the removal of World news
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Virtually all of the replacement forums have removed World News or else never had that category to begin with.

This again goes to the Benedict Option idea of focusing on the community rather than the world.
 
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MarysLurker said:
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gam197:
Some have called for the removal of World news
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Virtually all of the replacement forums have removed World News or else never had that category to begin with.

This again goes to the Benedict Option idea of focusing on the community rather than the world.
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I have yet to read the book but the man who wrote it is Orthodox and has left the faith. Maybe he is right that it is more about focusing on local community. I really do not understand the concept

Although policies that our government put in place affect us. Take property taxes. I live in New England and we have massive property taxes, sales tax, and income tax to support our local schools.

It cost so much that yes, our children get an education but at such a cost, How do we ignore that?

And I do not think most would mind the price if it was only math, English and science being taught.
 
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gam197 said:
I live in New England and we have massive property taxes, sales tax, and income tax to support our local schools
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You could move to New Hampshire and be rid of all of that except the property tax. 🙂

We are sending our kids to Catholic school yet we have to pay Texas property tax (equal to that in NH) to fund public schools that we get no benefit from. It is irritating but we can’t move just yet because of family.

I imagine that in the future, intentional Catholics will have to move to cities with low taxes in order to send their kids to Catholic schools.
 
MarysLurker said:
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gam197:
I live in New England and we have massive property taxes, sales tax, and income tax to support our local schools
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You could move to New Hampshire and be rid of all of that except the property tax. 🙂

We are sending our kids to Catholic school yet we have to pay Texas property tax (equal to that in NH) to fund public schools that we get no benefit from. It is irritating but we can’t move just yet because of family.

I imagine that in the future, intentional Catholics will have to move to cities with low taxes in order to send their kids to Catholic schools.
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Property taxes in NH average about 6-10 thousands so that is very expensive. We could move South but then we would all have to split up and leave our extended families. I guess these are things to consider but they are tough solutions.
 
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gam197 said:
I have yet to read the book but the man who wrote it is Orthodox and has left the faith
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Rod Dreher’s points are valid across the Judeo-Christian spectrum. I am not sure why he left Catholicism for Orthodoxy but I don’t think it affects his arguments.
 
gam197 said:
Property taxes in NH average about 6-10 thousands so that is very expensive
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Ours are around $8K. AND we pay sales tax. Everything is bigger in Texas :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

In both states these are ad valorem taxes on the value of your house as set by the local jurisdiction, so you can vote with your feet. Even so, there are very few truly low tax states and taxes will just keep going up as government spends and spends. I think this portends a flight from large cities eventually.
 
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MarysLurker said:
Ours are around $8K. AND we pay sales tax. Everything is bigger in Texas :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

In both states these are ad valorem taxes on the value of your house as set by the local jurisdiction, so you can vote with your feet. Even so, there are very few truly low tax states and taxes will just keep going up as government spends and spends. I think this portends a flight from large cities eventually.
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There are no low-tax cities or towns but there are some areas in NH with low tax rates because of lakes so that is something people look but often housing is more expensive in those areas.

Again it is the education of children that makes New England an expensive place to live, tax-wise I did not realize tax rates were that high in Texas…

There are some states with lower tax rates probably in the midwest.

I Will look at Benedict Option’s book and try to relate it to where we are going as a Church.
 
I am reading reviews and will look at purchasing these two books.
 
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Fauken said:
It’s closing because the atmosphere is so toxic that no one wants to pay for it to be maintained.
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I think it might just be that people are not interested enough in a forum to shuffle money out for it.
 
To me, the two things are related. I’d be much more willing to chip in for a forum with a non-toxic atmosphere and a less arbitrary (for lack of a better word) moderation system. Also, I didn’t become a patron here because I dislike the “money buys privileges” approach.
 
I have to agree this forum can be very toxic at times.

I posted originally almost ten years ago looking for honest help trying to live my faith better in actual life. My post wasn’t written well, I came off a bit poorly, but it was an honest attempt. I got such a load of screw you it further affected my already teetering mental health. After all these are “faithful Catholics,” they must have some insight. Right?
I regret that now.

A forum full of A holes gives A hole responses. Who would want to come to a forum like that? And a faith forum… seriously?

I’m not saying you don’t have point. But I think we all, as the membership, should take an honest look at ourselves, and how we come off. I’ve gotten into a few scuffles I’m not proud of. I think it’s time to reflect, be honest with ourselves, make constructive changes, forgive, and move forward.

CA has decided to close this. I look forward to starting a new chapter myself. I’ll definitely miss some people, but ends are new beginnings. Or at least they can be!
 
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Fauken said:
Nor the influx of trolls who would run rampant for hours making account after account before getting banned.
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I wonder, do you consider me to be a troll? I was repeatedly suspended and once banned. I returned because I considered the ban unjust and felt I had something to offer.

The suspensions were due, I believe, to organised flagging by a particularly entrenched pro-Vatican II clique, to whose opinons the moderators gave too much weight.
 
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AlNg said:
The Muslim family in our neighborhood has 7 children with another on the way.
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The fertility rate in countries like Turkey, Iran, Malaya and Indonesia (ie where there are alternatives to annoying goats for a living) is around replacement level.
 
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