The church will become small ...She will no longer be able to inhabit many of the edifices she built [like CAF]

[OddBird]

As far as I’m concerned, people who fit the “troll” description are rather people in the same category as a certain guy with a name stating something about viruses, who logged in again and again and again under slightly different user names, in order to invite us to pray for Covid sufferers to die. Or people with an agenda who come here with hidden intentions – playing “gotcha” with Catholics about morals, insulting the Blessed Virgin or the Church, and so on.

I certainly don’t consider you a troll, and I value your opinion even when I disagree with it. You bring in a different voice.

(Even though, if you’ll forgive me for saying so, I sometimes do think you could save yourself a lot of trouble by wording things a tiny bit less bluntly It can come across in the wrong way in a written message; that’s the limitations of the medium. But I suspect I often come across in the same way, so I’m preaching to myself here as well…)

I think we all, as the membership, should take an honest look at ourselves, and how we come off. I’ve gotten into a few scuffles I’m not proud of. I think it’s time to reflect, be honest with ourselves, make constructive changes, forgive, and move forward.

I could have written the same, and I absolutely share the sentiment.

 

[CTBcin]

But has the interest in their subject matter decreased?

I’d say stagnant, but not necessarily decreasing.

But my point is that online forums in general are slowly dying out as other forms of communication (social media, Reddit, etc.) are becoming more popular. I’m not sure we can equate the closing of CAF with the decline of the Church.

 

[Fauken]

I wonder, do you consider me to be a troll? I was repeatedly suspended and once banned. I returned because I considered the ban unjust and felt I had something to offer.

Have you created over 20+ accounts to spam “VATICAN II IS HERETICAL!!! BAN ME IF YOU’RE A HERETIC!”, or, “CORONAVIRUS WAS MADE BY MICROSOFT!!” on the forum?

 

[Maximian]

No. I fancy my criticism of Vatican II is far more dangerous and objectionable to its supporters, because more reasoned.

 

[Dan_Defender]

For a long time when I did Google searches, the Catholic forums site would be shown on Google but not for at least a year now.

Same here. Also, CAF may still be the largest by number of posters. The second (Catholicism on reddit was a far second).

 

[Dan_Defender]

I’m not sure we can equate the closing of CAF with the decline of the Church.

Certainly not the Church as a worldwide organization. CAF is mostly read in North America.

 

[TheLittleLady]

I respectfully submit to you that the closure of CAF is a confirmation and a prediction of the prophecy of Pope Emeritus Benedict

Pretty sure that the folks who run Catholic Answers would not agree with you.

It comes down to $$.

 

[TheLittleLady]

And the Methodists have a lot of hospitals too but when was the last time you saw one?

You could begin here

Methodist Hospital - Wikipedia

I’ve never been to a Church or parish that publishes “online resources” that even mentions it.

As the person who compiles that website for our parishes, no this is not a resource. Too much politics for us to feel comfortable suggesting it.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

As the person who compiles that website for our parishes, no this is not a resource. Too much politics for us to feel comfortable suggesting it.

I think its neat that you all know about it, however.
Some of the ladies at my Bible study talk about things they heard on EWTN, but never CAF.

(Although I have a suspicion I’m three degrees of separation from a poster here—they’ve dropped numerous bread crumb clues. But I don’t want to “out” myself or them IRL LOL )

 

[MarysLurker]

You could begin here

I meant, when was the last time you saw an actual Methodist. As in, a human being who is Protestant Christian of the Wesleyan persuasion.

There are probably more charities, organizations and buildings that say “Methodist” than there are actual Methodists. The two are not correlated. Likewise for Catholics or anyone else.

The last time I saw one was 3 days ago when I saw @Methodist looking around. But before then … at least a year.

 

[TheLittleLady]

I meant, when was the last time you saw an actual Methodist . As in, a human being who is Protestant Christian of the Wesleyan persuasion.

Let me see, I talked to my inlaws a few days ago, and to my friend who is a Methodist pastor last night.

 

[MarysLurker]

Let me see, I talked to my inlaws a few days ago, and to my friend who is a Methodist pastor last night

They’ll probably tell you that their congregations are getting smaller and that they are hoping that the planned split of the United Methodist Church will not make things worse.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Two of the biggest churches in my town are UMCs.

 

[MarysLurker]

Two of the biggest churches in my town are UMCs

Big in terms of size, or big in terms of Sunday attendance?

UMC themselves say they are losing congregants in the USA

US dips below majority of membership

UMC is having ongoing parish closures

A manifesto for saving old church buildings

 

[mercyalways]

I respectfully submit to you that the closure of CAF is a confirmation and a prediction of the prophecy of Pope Emeritus Benedict. It is also evidence that the Catholic Church cannot engage the mainstream culture because it has definitively rejected the Church, as evidenced by proven demographic trends.

Every Pew research survey agrees with you. There has been a slow slide away from religion beginning in the 1950s that has turned into a massive turning away from Christianity today. Walk into almost any church and the congregations seem composed of those sixty and over.

The answer is to focus not on engaging the world but on engaging ourselves and our local communities so as to build small, strong Catholic communities: arks to the coming flood.

You are right! Later, you mention Dreher’s book The Benedict Option. He has since written another book on the topic Live Not By Lies explaining how small prayer groups formed the basis for keeping the faith during the Communist takeover of Eastern Europe. This was the best means of passing on the Catholic faith to the children. Because the members visited one another, it also meant the children were able to find another devout Catholic to marry,

Being a member of a rosary group, or the Knights, is truly important now, when the rest of our culture stands against Catholic morality.

I purchased the Marian Option, which looks great

 

[HomeschoolDad]

The church will become small and will have to start afresh more or less from the beginning. She will no longer be able to inhabit many of the edifices she built in prosperity. As the number of her adherents diminishes . . . she will lose many of her social privileges. . . As a small society, [the Church] will make much bigger demands on the initiative of her individual members…

I deeply revere Pope Benedict XVI, but I’ve got to say, that comes across as a little defeatist.

I suppose I’ve still got just a little bit of a triumphalist streak, and I refuse to admit defeat, in faith, in life, in anything. Though the poem is a little agnostic for my tastes, I often recall Henley’s Invictus, as well as Spafford’s hymn “It Is Well With My Soul”.

With regard to the latter, I once took it as a bit of evangelical self-congratulation, until several CAF readers “educated” me on the matter and helped me to see what tragedies inspired Spafford to write it. Most of the time, my head rests squarely on my shoulders. That one time, my head was somewhere else entirely. (It happens.) Many thanks to those on here who helped me to extricate myself, so that I could see the light.

 

[vz71]

Walk into almost any church and the congregations seem composed of those sixty and over.

When I was a teenager, the church congregation was made up of 60 and over.
When I was in my 20’s, same thing.
And into my 30’s, more of the same.
And 40’s…

Do we see a pattern here?
I don’t think this is a congregation shrinking.
I think it more likely that older people feel the need for God moreso than others.

 

[Pattylt]

From my outsider perspective, I see the Benedict Option happening whether Catholics want it or not.

For the first time in history, religions of all stripes are shrinking. Supposedly Islam is still growing now but mostly through childbirth and those in the US and Europe are becoming more secularized as well…they are just a few hundred years behind Christianity. They too will reach a peak then level off and finally decline as well. Many Muslims are leaving their faith behind…it’s just a bit deadly for them to announce it publicly.

If…assuming the if…religions continue to decline, the indwelling will be a natural response…what else will you be able to do? Religion will not die out! In spite of atheists predictions, I don’t see that happening in our lifetimes or our children’s. But shrinkage, loss of influence and any privileged positions will happen. What will remain is a small but faithful core of believers. It will probably happen in third world counties as well but much later. Like Muslims, it will reach a peak, stagnation then declines especially as first world missions decline.

I think many people will be happier with a small but faithful community. It’s going to be gradual and may not be overly noticed until one day you look around and that’s what you see. And it may very well not be eternal. We humans are fickle.

Just as the church started small then saw explosive growth…it was because it offered something their societies lacked. The Early Christians showed them a different way to live and looked desirable for exactly those differences. Right now, a religious life barely looks any different than a secular one except on Sunday morning. At some point in the future it will look very different from secular life and will attract those wanting that different life. It may come full circle eventually or remain a small sect within a large secular lifestyle and the Christians themselves will determine how it looks and how attractive.

How exactly will it play out? I have no idea. Judaism has survived almost two thousand years of being a small religion and keep on going. They may well not survive into the future but they’ve been written off before and been wrong for it! Christianity may become another small religious sect very similar, yet still be there.

 

[MarysLurker]

I deeply revere Pope Benedict XVI, but I’ve got to say, that comes across as a little defeatist

Let’s say you are a father of a large family, and you have been lucky enough to get a ticket for the maiden voyage of the RMS Titanic. The White Star Line (popular culture) has convinced almost everyone on board that the ship is unsinkable. You decide to go see the stars one night, and so you see the ship hit the iceberg.

You promptly run under deck and tell everyone you can find that the ship may sink and that it is time to get to the lifeboats (evangelization). No one believes you until the ship begins to wobble. Now you know that you’re right. At first a lot of people believe you and they start getting on the boats. But your evangelizing is subject to diminishing returns. Worse, you realize that there aren’t enough lifeboats (the Church is running out of resources.) Even worse, the White Star Line has been very effective in thwarting your efforts and they are working on putting you in the brig.

At this point, if it was just you–if you were a priest or consecrated religious or otherwise not responsible for a family–you could just stay where you are on the Titanic (the popular culture) and try to save a few more people. But because you have a family, you have to do what is best for them, and that is getting them onto a lifeboat.

It isn’t about victory or defeat. It is about fulfilling your duties to God in your state of life.

 

[MarysLurker]

Do we see a pattern here?
I don’t think this is a congregation shrinking.
I think it more likely that older people feel the need for God moreso than others

But the numbers in the pews are decreasing rapidly. Not only do you have older folks in the pews, you also have fewer older folks.

Even if you’re right (the Church isn’t shrinking as much as just getting older), old folks don’t have kids. An old church is a shrinking church.