I agree with this. If we are proclaiming the Gospel and telling people they are all going to heaven we are not only misleading them, we are lying about Gods word.
Maybe it just me, but to say that You tend to believe something the opposite of what the Church teaches:shrug: I don’t get it! I mean its plain as day. You must obey the commandments, confess your sins, be Baptised, receive the Eucaharist and make Christ first in your life, etc.
The Pope can give his personal opinion also, but that does not make it the word of God.I’m very much aware of official Church teaching on the matter. This is my point: It is a sweeping generalization to assume that those who hope in universal salvation either are unaware of Church teaching or that they do not attend Mass/Divine Liturgy regularly. I have great hope in universal salvation, and I both attend Divine Liturgy regularly and am very familiar with Church teaching. Furthermore, as I’ve previously stated, I don’t think saints such as St. Gregory of Nazianzus (recognized as a Doctor of the Church) and St. Gregory of Nyssa, both of whom were also bishops, can be accused of either ignorance of the faith or irregular attenance at the Divine Liturgy. As far as why the Church would celebrate the Sacraments even if all or saved–because Christ has commanded us to do so. Our need to be nourished by the grace of God offered to us in the sacraments applies whether salvation is limited or universal in scope.Okay, now its my turn. I am saying that it is not taught in the RCC. Now would you say that someone that knows their Catholic faith would say that the Catholic Church teaches this? Yes or No?
Second when I said that if someone feels the Church teaches this I must assume they do not attend mass regularly! Why? Simple the Priest teaches this in his sermon quite regularly.
Why would the Priest have Communion, confession on a regular basis is all are saved?
You go to Church, attempt to be good, etc. because God commands you to do so. To me, the attitude that I shouldn’t do those things if God chooses to save those who cheat, lie, etc. are also getting into heaven seems much like the elder brother in the story of the Prodigal Son or the workers who were labored all day, but who received no greater pay than those who worked only one hour.Maybe it just me, but to say that You tend to believe something the opposite of what the Church teaches:shrug: I don’t get it! I mean its plain as day. You must obey the commandments, confess your sins, be Baptised, receive the Eucaharist and make Christ first in your life, etc.
Now why even go to Church, be good, obey the word, if the people who cheat and lie and etc are getting in heaven also?
Now to say that Saints believed something does not make it the word of God!
I am still having a very hard time believing that the Saint’s believed this. While I will agree that they want to believe that God is merciful and a loving and forgiving God and will save all who love him, I do not believe that they feel that all do Love him.
Sorry but that the word of God. If one chooses to live his life by rejecting God and doing the devils works is not getting in. Thats what the word of the Lord teaches.
I don’t mean to sound intellectually snobbish, but just because you don’t want to believe it doesn’t mean it’s not true. Also, I’m not making this stuff up. I have two graduate degrees in Christian theology (one in historical theology), plus an additional 24 graduate hours in Christian theology. It is well known that Sts. Gregory of Nazianzus and Gregory of Nyssa tended towards universalism.
And by the way you are right I do!! God says if you love me keep my Commandments. Obey my word. Love one another, Do not kill, steal, commit adultery …
What does that have to do with what the RCC teaches. You can have a million other degrees also, but it does not change the word of God.
As the bible states Christ will say I don’t know you!!The Word of God also teaches that the Son of Man, when his is lifted up, will draw ALL men to himself. Also, the Word of God teaches that it is not God’s will for anyone to perish, but that all be saved. Will God’s will ultimately be thwarted? So, I do not see the matter in the same way as you do. I’m not condemning you for your position. What I am saying, and what others who are far, far holier and far better educated in the Faith than I am, is that Holy Scripture provides a basis in hoping for the possibility of universal salvation. You might read von Balthasar’s Dare We Hope that All Men be Saved? In this book, he makes a strong case that we are right to pray and hope for the salvation of all. I certainly do not expect you to change your basic position-just to understand better the other position.
You TOTALLY misunderstood me. What I meant was that I was not making up my claims about the beliefs of some saints in universalism and that your not wanting to believe my claims about those saints doesn’t change the fact that they are true.
You know no such thing, no more than I (or anyone else this side of the parousia) know that everyone is going to Heaven. That knowledge is God’s alone. You and I will find out in the next life.
Let me say this a different way. What I am saying is I am SHOCKED that they feel this way. I am not saying you are wrong. I am saying that this is not the teaching of the CC.
I disagree the word of God tells us that not everyone is going to go to heaven. Jesus tells us himself he will be back and separate the sheep from the wolves. ANd cast the evil into hell. This I do know.
You are interpreting symbolic and figurative to mean non-existant. Fire relates to hell so it is therefore symbolic of hell. With figurative, He is speaking in a Literal, Figurative sense. Which also coincides with Bible and Fatima. . Symbolism in literature is a mechanism through which specific words are used to provide meaning. This coincides with Scripture also.
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. (1 Tim 2:3-4, NKJV)
And that is the core of the issue:beliefs. What I have come to acknowledge is that many adult Catholics are very trivial in their faith. They make up the rules and teachings,not the Church Christ founded. In other words,many become their own little-gods and are dictating to God how they will reach salvation. Very WRONG!
Huh!
When Jesus said that he will draw all Men to himself was him dying on the Cross to save us from our sins. When you say there is Hope for Universal Salvation Of course there is Hope.
He also told us that he would draw ALL people to himself (John 12:32). And as I said before, Holy Scripture tells us that it is not God’s will that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9). As I asked before, shall God’s will, into all eternity, be thwarted? Look, I don’t expect to change your mind. Your position is based in a certain strand within the Scriptures, and I certainly agree that the possibility of eternal damnation should be taken seriously. On the other hand, you shouldn’t expect that I’m going to change my mind, because I also see a strand within the Scriptures that supports my position.
Couldn’t have said it better myself:thumbsup: