The Duggars Respond to Reports That Josh Duggar Was Accused of Child Molestation

[QuestLove]

This news about Josh explains some things odd about the family, for example, why they wear those ridiculous getups to go swimming, even when it’s just the family, alone.
One of the parents said something about not stirring up feelings.

Yeah. I remember they made the girls swim in those dresses (wholesomewear swimsuits) and it was really odd at the time since they were only around family. Maybe this was in the aftermath of the abuse.

 

[masondoggy]

This is what parents were told to tell their kids in the '80s and '90s, and maybe now by many therapists. I told clients, and my own children, if someone touches them anywhere on their bodies where they are uncomfortable, to tell them to stop and to yell/tell an adult.

Sadly, I have been in the Duggars parents position. It’s an unbelievable, horrible situation and when you get the authorities, case workers, and counselors involved, you’re in crisis mode, being told several things sometimes. Our detective wanted the book thrown at our son. The judge felt otherwise, that he would be worse after going to detention. After being an adolescent counselor for some time, and being stuck in this impossible situation, it seemed rational. I was also hurting for our boy and wanting him to get help, not to go into a situation in which he was somehow made worse or exposed to worse than he had been in his mother’s home.

Was I judged? Yes. My teens found out and one no longer speaks to me. She told my family, and many of them blamed me. My in-laws circled their wagons around my daughter, who from 4 to 9 lived with this secret. They chose her over there grandson/nephew. An unbelievably hard choice. No matter what any of us did, we were wrong by other people. My best friend, in whom I confided, confided to other friends. I have been ostracized by our circle now. She stopped coming over, and looked at my husband with suspicion because that was his son. We had to talk to neighbors, and my daughter’s friends’ parents, to let them know so they could talk with their children. My stepson’s mother’s acquaintances starting coming out of the woodwork, saying this had happened to their children with this boy. Had someone, somewhere, called the police or CPS and been brave enough to see this through, my daughter wouldn’t have been hurt. Other kids wouldn’t have been hurt. He’s also, I hear, been in trouble at school for assaulting girls. His older brother (not my husband’s) is in prison for statutory rape.

I live with this everyday. The guilt is overwhelming. The gravity hit me recently and I have not dealt well with it.

I’m so very sorry that you have been through so much. I can’t even imagine being the parent in that situation. Our primal instinct is to protect our kids…even when they do something horrible.

I hope that you have got counseling for yourself to work through all of this.

 

[masondoggy]

Yeah. I remember they made the girls swim in those dresses (wholesomewear swimsuits) and it was really odd at the time since they were only around family. Maybe this was in the aftermath of the abuse.

I think those awful swimsuits are just standard practice in their circles. Anna has worn them also when swimming.

But I do think a lot of other weird practices of theirs definitely make more sense now like the whole side-hug thing (even with siblings). The boys and girls are also very segregated. Somebody on another forum also pointed out that when they built that new house, the girls room is right next to the parents room and the boys room is all the way on the other side. And Josh had his own room when he still lived there. There’s also security cameras IN the house…oh and the saddest thing of all? The oldest girls that still live at home share beds with the little girls. They probably feel like they have to protect them in the middle of the night. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is why Jana hasn’t married yet. She’s sticking around to protect her young sisters.

 

[masondoggy]

patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2015/05/what-did-josh-duggars-counseling-look-like.html

Oh and has anybody seen this? Truly sickening.

 

[oldgraymare2]

Of course it shouldn’t have happened in the first place. No one is saying otherwise.

Although I’d really like you to explain how anyone can be traumatized by something they don’t know about. I can tell you, I’ve been traumatized by a few different things in my life and none of them were things I didn’t know about. I’m really serious, are you saying there is some sort of extra sensory perception that causes trauma that you don’t know about in any other way? I’m not being sarcastic. I’ve never heard of this. I don’t understand how someone can be psychologically traumatized about something you don’t even know about?

From the DRM ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3466464/

As outlined in the current Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM-IV-TR), PTSD develops after exposure to a Criterion A1 event, defined as involving actual or threatened death, serious injury, or threat to one’s physical integrity (American Psychiatric Association, 2000). To meet Criterion A1, the individual must have been directly involved in the traumatic event, witnessed the event, or learned about the death or serious injury of a family member or close friend.

I’ve never heard of such a thing as being traumatized by something you don’t know about, so I googled PTSD to see if there was more info.

Maybe you are right, and that explains why the world is so messed up. We’re all psychologically traumatized by all the crazy stuff that has happened in the world that we don’t even know of. What do I know?

It is not necessary for you to minimize my feelings. I am expressing my opinions, as others are doing in this thread. I do not know if you are aware, but your post comes across as condescending towards me.

 

[Cider]

It is not necessary for you to minimize my feelings. I am expressing my opinions, as others are doing in this thread. I do not know if you are aware, but your post comes across as condescending towards me.

That wasn’t my intent at all. As I posted I’m not being sarcastic. I really don’t understand how what you said works. It just doesn’t make any logical sense how it’s possible. Although I’m open to hearing how it is. Truly I’m being sincere here. My post wasn’t about your feelings, it was about the claim that people can be traumatized by something that they aren’t aware of.

 

[estesbob]

patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2015/05/what-did-josh-duggars-counseling-look-like.html

Oh and has anybody seen this? Truly sickening.

Yes The idea that this would not have happened had their children had comprehensive sexual education is sickening

 

[oldgraymare2]

That wasn’t my intent at all. As I posted I’m not being sarcastic. I really don’t understand how what you said works. It just doesn’t make any logical sense how it’s possible. Although I’m open to hearing how it is. Truly I’m being sincere here. My post wasn’t about your feelings, it was about the claim that people can be traumatized by something that they aren’t aware of.

I have already said how I felt about it. However, for some reason, my feelings were singled out in what is a very difficult and sensitive issue for many of us, and were made into a mockery.

I am sorry that I do not feel like getting into a further discussion about this with you, and I will not be participating in this thread anymore.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

Although I’d really like you to explain how anyone can be traumatized by something they don’t know about.

Abuse and trauma do funny things to your mind and can completely alter the way you remember things, if you remember them at all. I have a friend who was repeatedly raped by a sibling over the course of several years. They have incontrovertible proof of it. However, she doesn’t remember a thing about it. The fact that she doesn’t remember it doesn’t minimize the fact that she’s a victim and it doesn’t erase the fact that it’s had a horrible influence on her life, including having difficulty establishing and maintaining relationships and having massive panic attacks in certain situations.

A couple people in this thread keep stating that the police report states that these girls didn’t know what was going on. The portion I read contradicts that. Even so, the girls were not interviewed until four years after the abuse in question took place. One of the repeated comments that bothers me is that one of the girls said she didn’t know that what he was doing. I disagree with the claim that this somehow means she either didn’t know that he was fondling, or that it was wrong or that he had even done anything. I’m more inclined to believe that she was saying that she didn’t realize that what he was doing would be defined as sexual abuse. She wasn’t saying that she wasn’t uncomfortable with it or that she didn’t realize it was wrong; my take is that she was saying she didn’t recognize it as sexual abuse. I have a friend whose daughter was 12 when her cousin started abusing her. He would play games where he would grope and fondle her. When asked about it, she said she didn’t realize what he was doing. It’s not that she wasn’t aware of it–she knew it was wrong and that it made her uncomfortable, but he was her slightly older cousin, someone she loved and trusted. So in her mind, even though she knew it was bad and she felt awful about herself afterward, she didn’t recognize it as sexual abuse because there was no sex involved (at least until he raped her), and it was being perpetrated by a trusted family member–something her parents never told her could happen.

masondoggy:

oh and the saddest thing of all? The oldest girls that still live at home share beds with the little girls. They probably feel like they have to protect them in the middle of the night. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is why Jana hasn’t married yet. She’s sticking around to protect her young sisters.

That’s something else I haven’t seen brought up. When a younger sibling is abused, the older siblings are often just as traumatized because they feel like they didn’t do their job protecting and take care of the younger ones. Regardless of how people view their public persona, the fact that they didn’t handle this properly when it occurred has left them, in my eyes, a seriously messed up family. How can the girls have any feelings of self-worth knowing that Josh’s reputation and well-being is far more valuable to their parents (and TLC) than they are?

 

[Cider]

Abuse and trauma do funny things to your mind and can completely alter the way you remember things, if you remember them at all. I have a friend who was repeatedly raped by a sibling over the course of several years. They have incontrovertible proof of it. However, she doesn’t remember a thing about it. The fact that she doesn’t remember it doesn’t minimize the fact that she’s a victim and it doesn’t erase the fact that it’s had a horrible influence on her life, including having difficulty establishing and maintaining relationships and having massive panic attacks in certain situations.

A couple people in this thread keep stating that the police report states that these girls didn’t know what was going on. The portion I read contradicts that. Even so, the girls were not interviewed until four years after the abuse in question took place. One of the repeated comments that bothers me is that one of the girls said she didn’t know that what he was doing. I disagree with the claim that this somehow means she either didn’t know that he was fondling, or that it was wrong or that he had even done anything. I’m more inclined to believe that she was saying that she didn’t realize that what he was doing would be defined as sexual abuse. She wasn’t saying that she wasn’t uncomfortable with it or that she didn’t realize it was wrong; my take is that she was saying she didn’t recognize it as sexual abuse. I have a friend whose daughter was 12 when her cousin started abusing her. He would play games where he would grope and fondle her. When asked about it, she said she didn’t realize what he was doing. It’s not that she wasn’t aware of it–she knew it was wrong and that it made her uncomfortable, but he was her slightly older cousin, someone she loved and trusted. So in her mind, even though she knew it was bad and she felt awful about herself afterward, she didn’t recognize it as sexual abuse because there was no sex involved (at least until he raped her), and it was being perpetrated by a trusted family member–something her parents never told her could happen.

That’s something else I haven’t seen brought up. When a younger sibling is abused, the older siblings are often just as traumatized because they feel like they didn’t do their job protecting and take care of the younger ones. Regardless of how people view their public persona, the fact that they didn’t handle this properly when it occurred has left them, in my eyes, a seriously messed up family. How can the girls have any feelings of self-worth knowing that Josh’s reputation and well-being is far more valuable to their parents (and TLC) than they are?

Thanks for sharing your theory about how it’s possible.

 

[elsker]

Being a victim of child molestation, it doesn’t go away for the victim. Mine happened 18 years ago. I saw him the other day. My best friend’s grandmother passed away and he was there. Seeing him made me stop in my tracks and had to internalize my anxiety.
Sure, let them repent and be forgiven by God, they still shouldn’t be around children and their victims will always remember. I would have to stop having sex with me husband sometimes because of what I went through.

This should not be let go.

Thank you for your witness. Incest is its own special evil and knowing that you will probably see your abuser again is a heavy cross to carry. It never goes away and just to save my sanity I had to break all ties so that I wouldn’t be exposed to my abusers again. It was painful and has left me an “orphan” but since nothing was done to help me when it happened I had to walk away. I can’t imagine his sisters having to be around him for the show and in life. This must be so difficult. We have an obligation to forgive our abusers but we don’t need to be exposed to them for life.

For this show to work it required all the children and with money on the table I’m sure the sisters felt they had to suck it up and put on a brave face for the public. TLC was probably aware of it but was probably assured it wouldn’t happen again on their watch and so there it is! My heart and prayers go out to these young ladies. They have such a battle in regards to public scrutiny and turmoil in regards to family loyalty and their faith. No amount of wealth or fame will make up for that loss of innocence.

Praying these woman have the strength to endure the storm and can finally talk about what happened and find healing through their faith.

 

[gracepoole]

Highlighted above: Can you please post a link to police report?

I hate to link to In Touch magazine but since it’s the publication that filed the Freedom of Information Act request, it’s the one that has a link to the full report:

intouchweekly.com/posts/bombshell-duggar-police-report-jim-bob-duggar-didn-t-report-son-josh-s-alleged-sex-offenses-for-more-than-a-year-58906

There was only one report. There was no subsequent report that was taken years later that Michelle Duggar responded to.

No one said there was more than one report. I simply noted that the first encounter with the police was incredibly flawed and that later (in the same report) Michelle denied that Josh had been sent to an actual counselor. I’ve read the report in its entirety. It would be fabulous if you’d pay close attention to what I write, as you’ve twice now assumed I wrote things that I didn’t write.

I am not condoning molestation in any way. I was molested by my brother when I was six years old. He is a real sick person. I forgive him and pray for him every day. I was also molested by a Catholic priest. I forgive him and offer up my masses for his soul every Sunday.

I’m definitely very sorry that these things happened to you. I don’t think I ever indicated that you were condoning molestation? That doesn’t, however, mean that you aren’t mistaken about the severity of what took place and what should have happened afterward.

I think that this family has been singled out because they are Christian. If they had been atheists, this thing would never had been leaked.

Wow, I can’t disagree enough. For all that Christians endure here in the US, atheists are the most hated cultural group. Americans would rather their children marry terrorists than atheists (really). This family is being singled out because it chose to speak out publicly about moral issues while simultaneously hiding this big fat secret.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

A pervert is someone who acts on perversion. You can’t be a pervert and not know it, unless you have a disassociative personality. I said he should find out if he is at risk to repeat, not “if he’s a pervert.”

And I never said the government should force him to. I’ve been very clear about talking about this, so I can only conclude that this comment was intended as a non sequitur.

 

[gracepoole]

The key words in your post are supposedly. This is a list of points for discussion. There is no proof that this is what the Duggars used.

The Duggars have made no secret of the materials they use to homeschool, their affiliation with Bill Gothard, etc. Do some research online and within moments you’ll be flooded with sources.

I think that they did what they thought was right. They didn’t try to cover it up and pretend that it didn’t happen. Maybe we don’t agree with how things were handled, but they did what they thought they were supposed to do. I don’t think that their children should be taken away from them.

It seems we’re just repeating the same claims so let me repeat what I said earlier, too: ignorance isn’t an excuse here. Yes, Jim Bob and Michelle are incredibly poorly educated. That doesn’t reduce their level of responsibility for handling this traumatic event. I’ll repeat, too, that we’ve heard plenty about what they did (or didn’t) do regarding Josh – and we’ve heard virtually nothing about what they did to help their daughters.

Two points:

1. I get the feeling much of Kendra’s passionate responses in support of the victims came about because so many other posters have minimized Josh’s actions, and essentially engaged in victim blaming; apparently, if someone is severely affected by being sexually abused, gets PTSD and has flashbacks and suffers from sexual dysfunction, it’s the victims fault for not being a good forgiving Christian.

Bingo!

If you read the police report, in the incidences where the girls were awake, they were not aware that he had touched them in an inappropriate manner. There was only the last incident, after the little girl was told that he was not allowed to touch between the neck and the knees, that the girl told her mother that Josh touched her while she was reading a book to him. Nobody in the room with him saw it. I’m sure he touched her. Whether it was inappropriate or by accident is hard to tell.

You should read the actual police report. One of felony forcible fondling consisted of Josh touching a hole in the seat of his sister’s jeans and telling her she had a hole there. The officer speculated that he might have touched the little girl’s skin. Another incident of forcible fondling consisted of Josh pulling the blanket off of his sister and touching her breast while he did it. His sister said that she thought he had just pulled the blanket off of her. She was awake. She did not realize he actually touched her breast when he did it.

Please stop noting that the girls were unaware of Josh’s inappropriate behavior until they were informed of it. We all know this. The only possible reason to keep repeating it is to attempt to lessen the significance of what he did. Frankly, I can’t imagine being told that my brother touched me inappropriately while I slept, thereby stripping me of any sense of security while I was at my most vulnerable.

Actually I think it’s the opposite. I think that often times the lynch mob is so overwhelming we have no choice but to try and interject a little sanity into the discussion. Even if we’d normally be in agreement with them. Sometimes it just goes too far.

Sanity? Seriously? How is minimizing sexual victimization sane?

 

[gracepoole]

patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2015/05/what-did-josh-duggars-counseling-look-like.html

Oh and has anybody seen this? Truly sickening.

Yes, exactly. *Thank *you. This is what the Gothard cult is all about. Is it really surprising that Gothard himself has been accused of molestation multiple times? These aren’t your average committed Christians.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

People are downplaying it. Saying that his victims were asleep, they didn’t even know. Or that he was “just a child”

No. I will not downplay such acts. Ever. He doesn’t need advocates, his poor sisters do.

Also, I would not be surprised if Josh has been abused as a minor.

 

[LongingSoul]

If you are referring to my personal pain, no, it is not repressed. I live with it everyday. But as I mentioned before, my parents simply told me I had a wild imagination and that I must have misinterpreted something. I would explain in more detail, but it would not be appropriate for an open forum.

I simply choose to forgive and pray for the person. Just like I forgive and pray for the soul of a priest who molested me.

I think it is hardest to forgive my mother, because she would not listen to me. I get up every day and forgive her all over again.

I think that this case is different then mine. If you read the police report, in the incidences where the girls were awake, they were not aware that he had touched them in an inappropriate manner. There was only the last incident, after the little girl was told that he was not allowed to touch between the neck and the knees, that the girl told her mother that Josh touched her while she was reading a book to him. Nobody in the room with him saw it. I’m sure he touched her. Whether it was inappropriate or by accident is hard to tell.

The Duggars acknowledged what happened, tried to get help, and reported it to the police.

Although in the 3 and a half years after Josh returned home the girls said that he never touched them again, people feel that his treatment was not sufficient. There is no evidence that he ever repeated his actions again, but people want to lock him up and throw away the key. What is the point of treatment? Is it to correct a problem or is it to provide vengeance?

My brother is a sick person who lives on the street. I have never forgotten what he did to me.
These girls, the ones who were awake at the time, had to be reminded. The one little girl said that Josh told her that she had a hole in the jeans she was wearing under her dress. He touched the hole when he said it. That is what one of the charges of forcible fondling was for. The hole was in the seat of the jeans. The officer speculated that he touched skin when this happened, so that would make it a felony. The girl said she didn’t remember the incident until someone told her about it. I don’t know what kind of trauma she would have suffered from that. Do you think that would be traumatic enough for her to need counseling?

I worked with a Catholic counselling and self development organisation for around 10 years in a companioning capacity. (Although I had opportunity to train as a counsellor, I chose not to as I knew that wasn’t my forte).

People can be affected by abuse in different extremes. Some become fiery advocates against all men even those who haven’t abused anyone. Others find they feel a bit of contempt towards victims who weren’t violated to the degree they were leading to some misplaced sympathy for a perpetrator who ‘wasn’t as bad’ as their own perpetrator.

The pathology of Josh’s actions were as much disordered as his actions. That part needs acknowledgement so that treatment can be approached in the best way by the best professionals. In some of those fundamentalist cults, a lot of emphasis is put on prayer and moral education and the science of personality disorders is forsaken, as for the heathens who don’t have God. That’s just a recipe for future disasters.

 

[Galnextdoor]

Nope. I agree with ToeInTheWater. And Kendra. And others who aren’t minimizing what happened.

I hope you don’t think I am minimizing what he did, but you have to look at the facts and not how you might feel about child molesters in general.

There are people who posting that the girls are lying, the parents tried to cover everything up, that the 13 year old boy probably did worse and probably there other victims. Also saying he’s still probably molesting girls is jumping to conclusions. It’s almost like bearing false witness against your neighbor. IT IS ALL RANDOM SPECULATION AND SLANDEROUS.

I think people are trying to make more out of what happened, then what actually happened.

Please read the report.

Three of the girls were awake. The parents had a no touching between the neck and knees policy. When his sisters who were awake were questioned, the one said she didn’t even realize that he touched her when he took the blanket away. This was one of the incidences of the forcible fondling.

I think that he needed help. I think his parents tried to get him that help as best as they knew how.

No one else has come forward as a victim, and he is 27 now.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

No one else has come forward as a victim, and he is 27 now.

That would make me feel a little better if we lived in a world where every incident of sexual abuse was reported. Just referring to child sexual abuse, it is extremely under-reported. From the Children’s Assessment Center of Houston:

FACT: The real prevalence of child sexual abuse is not known because so many victims do not disclose or report their abuse. Researchers have suggested rates varying from 1% to 35%. Most professionals in the field of abuse use rates from 8% to 20%.

In other words, as many as 99 out of 100 instances of child sexual abuse are never reported. When a friend of mine disclosed that she had been sexually abused, I found out that at least half of my female friends and family members had been sexually abused, assaulted or raped as well. Out of all of them, only one ever reported it to the authorities (and that guy was acquitted).

And as far as reading the report goes, I think some people are misinterpreting some of what was said in the report. The “touching under the dress” incident was mentioned a few times earlier in this thread. Whoever brought it up made it sound rather ambiguous, as though it could be left open to interpretation. For whatever reason they left out the fact that, in addition to lifting her dress, Josh pulled down her pants. She said the way he touched her “felt weird.” It wasn’t as ambiguous or innocent as earlier claimed. One of the daughters ran crying to her parents afterward. Another girl said that she doesn’t feel comfortable or safe in the house when Josh is there. This was all overlooked by the posters who want to minimize what he did. Yes, read the report. If you’ve ever dealt with abuse victims there are red flags all over it.

Just because no other incidents have been disclosed and no other victims have come forward doesn’t mean there aren’t any. It doesn’t mean there are any, either, but abuse doesn’t occur in a vacuum. It’s not a behavior that occurs once to a single victim then never occurs again. Jim Bob and Michelle mishandled this. Everyone involved should have received at least some degree of professional counseling. The fact that Josh never received any valid treatment leaves me worried about his children.

 

[masondoggy]

The Duggars have made no secret of the materials they use to homeschool, their affiliation with Bill Gothard, etc. Do some research online and within moments you’ll be flooded with sources.

It seems we’re just repeating the same claims so let me repeat what I said earlier, too: ignorance isn’t an excuse here. Yes, Jim Bob and Michelle are incredibly poorly educated. That doesn’t reduce their level of responsibility for handling this traumatic event. I’ll repeat, too, that we’ve heard plenty about what they did (or didn’t) do regarding Josh – and we’ve heard virtually nothing about what they did to help their daughters.

Bingo!

Please stop noting that the girls were unaware of Josh’s inappropriate behavior until they were informed of it. We all know this. The only possible reason to keep repeating it is to attempt to lessen the significance of what he did. Frankly, I can’t imagine being told that my brother touched me inappropriately while I slept, thereby stripping me of any sense of security while I was at my most vulnerable.

Sanity? Seriously? How is minimizing sexual victimization sane?

Actually, Jim bob and Michelle both went to college and joined this cult as mature adults. They can’t claim ignorance. Not even close.

And yes, they made no secret their affiliation with ATI/Gothard. It was featured in the show numerous times and on their website…and their books. It is a fact.