The Duggars Respond to Reports That Josh Duggar Was Accused of Child Molestation

[LightBound]

I think some posters said he went to a facility for counseling but stayed at the friends house while doing so. The friend had him doing work while he was there.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=12998787&postcount=827

 

[Faith1960]

I recall there was once a very anti-Duggar poster on CAF (now banned) who mentioned the Save Jinger site, and also very interestingly referenced some sex-related conversation Jim Bob had with Jinger while out hunting that she labeled “sicko”. Since I never saw that episode myself, I don’t know if that conversation really was that inappropriate.

I think Jim Bobs obsession with his daughters being “fruitful and multiply” is sick.

 

[Faith1960]

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=12998787&postcount=827

I think others said something else. Do you have the link of the actual report?

 

[LightBound]

I think others said something else. Do you have the link of the actual report?

Mediaite has it in screenshots. I don’t know about the rules of linking that site here to CAF. It was easily located in an internet search.

 

[QuestLove]

What can/should this Duggars scandal teach the church?

christianpost.com/news/what-should-the-duggar-scandal-teach-the-church-139474/

This part I agree with:
“This means that sexual abuse in the context of the church must be handled in terms of both authorities responsible—both the church and the state. The state has been given the sword of justice to wield against those who commit crimes. This means that the immediate response to allegations of sexual abuse is to call the civil authorities, to render unto Caesar the responsibility that belongs to Caesar to investigate the crime. The church may or may not know the truth of the allegations, but it is the God-ordained prerogative of the civil authorities to discover such matters and to prosecute accordingly. When faced with a question of potential sexual abuse, call the authorities without delay.”

When we fail to investigate properly we lose credibility.

"The church has a responsibility, beyond alerting proper authority, in several areas. The first is to preach and teach on issues of sexual abuse. Many abused people hide in the shadows because they believe, sometimes even subliminally, that they were somehow at fault for their abuse. Sometimes abused people are fearful to come forward because they think that people within the church will think they are now “damaged” because of the abuse. The church’s witness should be clear that victims of sexual abuse are not to blame—nor are they defined by the atrocities committed against them. "

One other thing I would add that was not in the article is that, when we label something a “mistake” it seems to minimize our control over the event. And when a church leader labels what Josh Duggar did a “mistake” it seems to minimize his culpability. If it was indeed a mistake, then it means he [Josh] did not intend to molest his victims.

 

[InigoMontoya]

I think some posters said he went to a facility for counseling but stayed at the friends house while doing so. The friend had him doing work while he was there.

This is one of the things that truly confounds me. IF the facility was a true counseling center, with actual LPC’s, they would have been legally bound to report this to CPS and additional authorities. Who would have been obligated to open a pretty serious investigation, which likely would have almost certainly resulted in the Duggars being legally forced to keep him away from his sisters and other minors at a minimum. Neither the victims or parents would be empowered to object to that, by saying that they forgave him. The fact that nothing of the sort appears to have happened, leads me to believe that the whole counseling stuff was a sham. Not to mention the statements alluding to the idea that he never really went.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

One thing I’ve given a lot to is Jim Bob and Michelle’s role in all this. A lot of comments defend them to at least some degree saying that at least they did something and that they sought out the advice of their church and law enforcement. Something I will say is that, in a situation like this, as a parent it has to be extremely difficult to wrap your head around and accept the fact that not only has one of the worst things you can imagine happening to your daughters happened, but it was your own son who did it. I’m guessing there was a lot of anguish, disbelief and confusion. This was their oldest child, still their baby, and facing the reality of what he had done had to have been a heart-rending, daunting task.

They almost assuredly discussed the possible outcomes of what would happen to Josh if they called the police or CPS. They had to have considered the impact it would have on his future and on them and the rest of the family if he was arrested and possibly even sent to prison. There’s a good chance they looked into it even more than what was reported. In their disbelief and their uncertainty it makes sense that they took Josh at his word and believed that talking to him and having him promise not to do it again would put an end to the problem. Most people (at least those who have never dealt with child sexual abuse) would agree that they acted in a loving and reasonable manner.

But then he did it again. And again. And again.

At what point do they quit being loving but naive parents and start becoming enablers? At what point are they complicit in his crimes? After a full year of regular reports from your daughters that he’s been molesting them, at what point should they have finally wizened up and taken a responsible course of action?

If you’re ignorant to the realities of child sexual abuse then it’s reasonable that you would excuse them for how they responded after the first accusation. But surely at some point you have to see that they mishandled this horribly. Yes, it would be tragic to have to watch your child face a judge and potentially be sentenced to juvenile detention or even prison for their actions. But it’s far more tragic to hide the abuse, allow it to continue and to show your daughters that they aren’t safe and can’t rely on their parents to protect them. That’s exactly what Jim Bob and Michelle did.

I can’t say this often enough: Child sexual abuse is not like other crimes. It’s not just a sin or a criminal offense that goes away once someone is caught. It’s a devastating violation of a person, so horrible that victims are often not only left scarred for life, but they are now more likely to commit the same offenses themselves. If you don’t want to take my word for it, or Kendra’s word for it, or the word of any of the other people who have admitted to being abused in this thread then please read up on it on your own. We, especially considering what the Church has gone through, desperately need to understand this issue fully and be prepared to handle it appropriately should it ever happen to our own children.

 

[MaryT777]

One thing I’ve given a lot to is Jim Bob and Michelle’s role in all this. A lot of comments defend them to at least some degree saying that at least they did something and that they sought out the advice of their church and law enforcement. Something I will say is that, in a situation like this, as a parent it has to be extremely difficult to wrap your head around and accept the fact that not only has one of the worst things you can imagine happening to your daughters happened, but it was your own son who did it. I’m guessing there was a lot of anguish, disbelief and confusion. This was their oldest child, still their baby, and facing the reality of what he had done had to have been a heart-rending, daunting task.

They almost assuredly discussed the possible outcomes of what would happen to Josh if they called the police or CPS. They had to have considered the impact it would have on his future and on them and the rest of the family if he was arrested and possibly even sent to prison. There’s a good chance they looked into it even more than what was reported. In their disbelief and their uncertainty it makes sense that they took Josh at his word and believed that talking to him and having him promise not to do it again would put an end to the problem. Most people (at least those who have never dealt with child sexual abuse) would agree that they acted in a loving and reasonable manner.

But then he did it again. And again. And again.

At what point do they quit being loving but naive parents and start becoming enablers? At what point are they complicit in his crimes? After a full year of regular reports from your daughters that he’s been molesting them, at what point should they have finally wizened up and taken a responsible course of action?

If you’re ignorant to the realities of child sexual abuse then it’s reasonable that you would excuse them for how they responded after the first accusation. But surely at some point you have to see that they mishandled this horribly. Yes, it would be tragic to have to watch your child face a judge and potentially be sentenced to juvenile detention or even prison for their actions. But it’s far more tragic to hide the abuse, allow it to continue and to show your daughters that they aren’t safe and can’t rely on their parents to protect them. That’s exactly what Jim Bob and Michelle did.

I can’t say this often enough: Child sexual abuse is not like other crimes. It’s not just a sin or a criminal offense that goes away once someone is caught. It’s a devastating violation of a person, so horrible that victims are often not only left scarred for life, but they are now more likely to commit the same offenses themselves. If you don’t want to take my word for it, or Kendra’s word for it, or the word of any of the other people who have admitted to being abused in this thread then please read up on it on your own. We, especially considering what the Church has gone through, desperately need to understand this issue fully and be prepared to handle it appropriately should it ever happen to our own children.

Well said.

 

[QuestLove]

One thing I’ve given a lot to is Jim Bob and Michelle’s role in all this. A lot of comments defend them to at least some degree saying that at least they did something and that they sought out the advice of their church and law enforcement. Something I will say is that, in a situation like this, as a parent it has to be extremely difficult to wrap your head around and accept the fact that not only has one of the worst things you can imagine happening to your daughters happened, but it was your own son who did it. I’m guessing there was a lot of anguish, disbelief and confusion. This was their oldest child, still their baby, and facing the reality of what he had done had to have been a heart-rending, daunting task.

They almost assuredly discussed the possible outcomes of what would happen to Josh if they called the police or CPS. They had to have considered the impact it would have on his future and on them and the rest of the family if he was arrested and possibly even sent to prison. There’s a good chance they looked into it even more than what was reported. In their disbelief and their uncertainty it makes sense that they took Josh at his word and believed that talking to him and having him promise not to do it again would put an end to the problem. Most people (at least those who have never dealt with child sexual abuse) would agree that they acted in a loving and reasonable manner.

But then he did it again. And again. And again.

At what point do they quit being loving but naive parents and start becoming enablers? At what point are they complicit in his crimes? After a full year of regular reports from your daughters that he’s been molesting them, at what point should they have finally wizened up and taken a responsible course of action?

If you’re ignorant to the realities of child sexual abuse then it’s reasonable that you would excuse them for how they responded after the first accusation. But surely at some point you have to see that they mishandled this horribly. Yes, it would be tragic to have to watch your child face a judge and potentially be sentenced to juvenile detention or even prison for their actions. But it’s far more tragic to hide the abuse, allow it to continue and to show your daughters that they aren’t safe and can’t rely on their parents to protect them. That’s exactly what Jim Bob and Michelle did.

I can’t say this often enough: Child sexual abuse is not like other crimes. It’s not just a sin or a criminal offense that goes away once someone is caught. It’s a devastating violation of a person, so horrible that victims are often not only left scarred for life, but they are now more likely to commit the same offenses themselves. If you don’t want to take my word for it, or Kendra’s word for it, or the word of any of the other people who have admitted to being abused in this thread then please read up on it on your own. We, especially considering what the Church has gone through, desperately need to understand this issue fully and be prepared to handle it appropriately should it ever happen to our own children.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

So, I have received permission from Robert Bay to post a poll regarding the Duggar situation. I think doing so will provide a better picture of what CAF posters think about this, as most of the posters active in the main topic are those who are passionate about the topic. I’ve tried to present a very pro-Duggar option, a very anti-Duggar option, one that’s somewhat moderate between the two extremes, and of course the “other” option.

ETA: Okay, I know this is in the wrong forum, but I have asked for it to be moved to the World News forum. Sorry!

 

[ToeInTheWater]

What can/should this Duggars scandal teach the church?

christianpost.com/news/what-should-the-duggar-scandal-teach-the-church-139474/

Thank you very much for the link! It is refreshing, because many of the evangelical sites are parroting the “he’s repented, we have to forgive” line, often with a side of “the evil Left is just stirring this up to smear this Christian family and distract us from same-sex marriage and abortion”.

What I think this author pointed out is that Josh did not merely commit sexual sin, he committed a sin of violence, and therefore, what he did is different from sexual sins such as adultery, homosexual sex, and others that do not involve violence and force.

The first step is to recognize that sexual abuse is not merely sexual immorality. Sexual immorality, any sexual contact outside the bounds of covenantal marriage, is sin and comes under the just condemnation of God’s law. Immorality is a matter of a sin against God and, usually, sin against others—a spouse, the other party, and so forth. Immorality, by itself, is dealt with in terms of a call to repentance and the sort of discipleship it takes to overcome sinful patterns by the power of the Spirit and, where possible, to restore broken relationships.

Sexual abuse is immoral, but it is far more than just sexual. Sexual abuse is an act of violence, in which one leverages power to sexually violate the helpless. The resulting aftermath is not just a guilty conscience awaiting judgment on the part of the perpetrator, but a victim who has been assaulted. Sexual abuse is not just a sin but also a crime, not just a matter of personal unrighteousness on the part of the perpetrator but also a matter of public injustice.

Of course, I’m sure some would argue that what Josh did wasn’t at all violent, but he still assaulted his victims. He may not have threatened them with a weapon, he may not have held them down, but here is one quote from the police report that is still posted on the In Touch website
Original In Touch article

that illustrates the power gap between him and one of the victims:

James said that ___ was reading to ____ and ____ was sitting on ___ lap, ___ had touched ___breasts and vaginal area. James said that ___ then ran out of the room and called ___ and told ___ what ___ had done.

Although I suppose it’s possible that a girl closer to Josh’s age was sitting in his lap, isn’t it more reasonable to conclude that this was a girl young enough where sitting in her big brother’s lap, reading a book, would not raise any eyebrows?

For all those who blithely assume that the girls weren’t that badly affected by this, PLEASE read the actual report. Here’s another disturbing quote:

James said that in March of 2002, ___, who had just ____, came to him very upset and crying. James said that ____ had told him that ___ had been sneaking into ____ room at night and had been touching ____ on the breasts and vaginal areas while ___ were sleeping. (Apparently ____ were sleeping in a common room at this time). ____ told James that this had occurred once as one of ___ was sleeping on the couch. Apparently ____ had always been asleep when these incidents occurred. James said that when ___ later told ___ what had occurred, ___ had said that ___ remembered one time when ____ woke up and ___ was taking ___ blanket away, but ___ did not remember anything else.

Hmm, “very upset and crying”, that certainly seems like distress to me, not someone who had no idea what was going on. Also, though difficult tell due to blanks (where the text was blacked out), it seems that it’s possible that some of the victims actually had to witness what Josh did to other victims!

Now, to be fair, it IS true that these quotes are from what Jim Bob (that’s who “James” is) stated his daughters told him. Further down in the report, the actual interviews with the girls do suggest they had forgotten the details. But that does NOT mean they were not affected.

For those who’d claim such, then would you say it’s not as bad a sin to molest, say, a 2 year old baby, than to molest a 12 year old, because the baby isn’t even going to remember what happened at such a young age?

 

[Theo520]

What constitutes ‘handling the situation well’ has evolved much since it happened.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

One thing I’ve given a lot to is Jim Bob and Michelle’s role in all this. A lot of comments defend them to at least some degree saying that at least they did something and that they sought out the advice of their church and law enforcement. Something I will say is that, in a situation like this, as a parent it has to be extremely difficult to wrap your head around and accept the fact that not only has one of the worst things you can imagine happening to your daughters happened, but it was your own son who did it. I’m guessing there was a lot of anguish, disbelief and confusion. This was their oldest child, still their baby, and facing the reality of what he had done had to have been a heart-rending, daunting task.

They almost assuredly discussed the possible outcomes of what would happen to Josh if they called the police or CPS. They had to have considered the impact it would have on his future and on them and the rest of the family if he was arrested and possibly even sent to prison. There’s a good chance they looked into it even more than what was reported. In their disbelief and their uncertainty it makes sense that they took Josh at his word and believed that talking to him and having him promise not to do it again would put an end to the problem. Most people (at least those who have never dealt with child sexual abuse) would agree that they acted in a loving and reasonable manner.

But then he did it again. And again. And again.

At what point do they quit being loving but naive parents and start becoming enablers? At what point are they complicit in his crimes? After a full year of regular reports from your daughters that he’s been molesting them, at what point should they have finally wizened up and taken a responsible course of action?

If you’re ignorant to the realities of child sexual abuse then it’s reasonable that you would excuse them for how they responded after the first accusation. But surely at some point you have to see that they mishandled this horribly. Yes, it would be tragic to have to watch your child face a judge and potentially be sentenced to juvenile detention or even prison for their actions. But it’s far more tragic to hide the abuse, allow it to continue and to show your daughters that they aren’t safe and can’t rely on their parents to protect them. That’s exactly what Jim Bob and Michelle did.

I can’t say this often enough: Child sexual abuse is not like other crimes. It’s not just a sin or a criminal offense that goes away once someone is caught. It’s a devastating violation of a person, so horrible that victims are often not only left scarred for life, but they are now more likely to commit the same offenses themselves. If you don’t want to take my word for it, or Kendra’s word for it, or the word of any of the other people who have admitted to being abused in this thread then please read up on it on your own. We, especially considering what the Church has gone through, desperately need to understand this issue fully and be prepared to handle it appropriately should it ever happen to our own children.

:clapping::clapping:

 

[Gordon_Sims]

Now, to be fair, it IS true that these quotes are from what Jim Bob (that’s who “James” is) stated his daughters told him. Further down in the report, the actual interviews with the girls do suggest they had forgotten the details. But that does NOT mean they were not affected.

I pointed out in an earlier response that trauma has a funny effect on the human brain, memories in particular, to the point where victims will often misremember or not remember at all the abuse that occurred. I’m far more inclined to believe that the statements Josh and the girls made at the time of the abuse are a lot closer to the facts than what the girls said several years later.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

Here are more quotes from the police report that suggest it’s not as simple as “the victims forgave him and moved on”:

As I noted in my prior post, the report is posted on the In Touch website.

Here’s one quote from an interview with an actual victim:

Inv. Taylor then asked if __ knew why __ was there for interview. ___ then started to cry. Inv. Taylor handed __ a tissue. ___ said that ____ did something to ___ four years ago. ___ said ___ did not remember what ___ had done exactly. ___ said all ___ remembers is that ____ was on the washing machine and ___ picked ___ up and did something to ___ said ___ was ____ when it happened. ___ said ____ did not remember what ___ had done. ___ said ___ had stuck hand up ___ dress, but did not remember what ___ had done.

Later from the same interview:

Inv. Taylor asked how ___ felt about ____ now. ___ said that ___ does not totally trust ___ said that __ still loves ___ said that ___ does feel safe at home.

So at least ONE victim stated that she did not totally trust her abuser. And obviously was still upset about what happened years later, even if she had forgotten the details.

Also, this quote, from the interview of another victim, puts the Duggars obsessions with side hugs, including between sibs, in a more disturbing light:

Inv. Taylor then asked if anyone had touched ___ breasts. ___ said sometimes if ___ gets hugs. Inv. Taylor asked who gives __ hugs. ___ said from ___ mother and father. ___ said sometimes from ___ friends. ___ said it was okay. ___ said ___ is also hugged by ____. ____ said that was okay with ___. ___ said ___ was not touched any other times.

Oh, and BTW, this is what the supposedly chastened, remorseful Josh Duggar stated on national TV during one of the show episodes, according to US weekly:

In the video, Duggar, 27, is seen talking about a cinema visit he was due to take with his then-fiancee Anna Duggar before they married…Josh’s siblings Jana and John David Duggar were selected to chaperone, in what the reality star described as a “double date.”

“We chose Jana and John David – we thought why not, have a double date,” Josh says to the camera, looking jovial. The video clip then cuts to what appears to be him having a laugh with producers of the show. “We are from Arkansas, no?” he adds, with a huge smile on his face.

Now, I do realize that Josh was not actually 27 at the time this episode aired, in 2008. He is 27 now, he was 20 then. But still, I’d argue he’s old enough to have grown out of the “boys will be boys” excuse.

Anyway, though the article gets the age wrong, I assume they got the rest correct, as the actual clip is posted on that site. I personally didn’t click on it, though, since I got the feeling it would induce me to vomit

And BTW, if the same producers he’s laughing with knew about the molestation charges, I’d find them disgusting as well.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

Sorry to double-post but one more telling quote from the report:

Inv. Taylor asked about the training camp that ___ was sent to. ___ said it was in Little Rock. __ said that it was a Christian place. ____ said that ____ dad knows the guy that is in charge of the center. ___ said that ____ went to help re-model a building.

Inv. Taylor asked who ___ told in the church. ____said they told the elders of their church. Inv. Taylor asked for their names. ____ said that ___ did not want to tell ___ said that she needed to ask ___ father.

 

[zaffiroborant]

They may have more trouble repackaging the Duggars after cancelling Honey Boo Boo for the molestation connection. Do TV networks care if they are perceived as hypocrites?

As much as I believe the show needs to be cancelled, I believe this situation is completely different than Honey Boo Boo. June was ACTIVELY dating/living with the creep that molested her children. It would have been absolutely wrong and inappropriate to film a show with that going on.

On the other hand, with the Duggers, this is something that happened a decade ago and is not something that is going on currently. If not for the issue of the girls being the victims, they could have continued on with the show and left Josh and his family out of the whole thing…just like they did with Jon Gosselin.

But the girls should not be forced to remain on TV. So to me, THAT is the issue. It has not a thing to do with Honey Boo Boo.

I’m not so sure a network is going to see it your way, I’d bet the girls being victims doesn’t come to mind at all. And the example of Jon Gosselin doesn’t come anywhere near the loathsomeness of incestuously molesting kids.

 

[gh4]

There should have been an option for:
I don’t know, I wasn’t there and am not a friend or a confidant of the Duggars, so like 99.999% of the rest of the world, I have no clue exactly what happened.

 

[zaffiroborant]

There should have been an option for:
I don’t know, I wasn’t there and am not a friend or a confidant of the Duggars, so like 99.999% of the rest of the world, I have no clue exactly what happened.

Well they did say what happened, and they have made themselves public figures putting their lives out for public scrutiny and comment. If they’re going to swim with the TV star crowd they’re going to get the full treatment.

 

[Mary_Estelle]

I wish I (and you) were free of all temptation.
I wish I (and you) were free of any weakness.
I wish I(and you)were free of sin.
I wish I(and you) were to be beyond any future sin.
I wish that all of us will have redemption and forgiveness for our many faults and failures.
I wish and pray that I will rise above the comments and judgments about the Duggers.