THE ELEPHANT IN THE CHURCH a Catholic priest speaks out against homosexual priests

[Kevin_Walker]

tcay584:

There are some pretty incredible acts of deviance perpetrated by heterosexuals (child porn, bestiality, necrophilia, snuff films, the list goes on). It’s a case of “Well…his sin is worse than my sin because he’s queer”.

Please consider what you just lumped together: child pornography is not a heterosexual act again because no adult heterosexual has ever found sexual gratification with another male (so if the child is a boy, the excited observer cannot be a heterosexual).

Also, please note the most infamous example of all the above: Jeffrey Dahmer, who was a homsexual, hung out in homosexual bars & clubs to seek out males as victims. Jeffrey Dahmer, a homosexual, practiced: child porn, necrophilia, cannibalism, ritual murder, torture, and same sex with the victims (both alive and dead).

Not to be a wise guy, but could you name one heterosexual who could compare with Jeff?

The irrefutable fact is that homosexual behaviour is deviant behaviour, and homosexuals should absolutely not be ordained as Catholic Priests.

 

[GloriaPatri4]

Homosexuality and Child Sexual Abuse
byTimothy J. Dailey, Ph. D.

“However, despite efforts by homosexual activists to distance the gay lifestyle from pedophilia, there remains a disturbing connection between the two. This is because, by definition, male homosexuals are sexually attracted to other males. While many homosexuals may not seek young sexual partners, the evidence indicates that disproportionate numbers of gay men seek adolescent males or boys as sexual partners. In this paper we will consider the following evidence linking homosexuality to pedophilia:”

Please read article in its entirety
frc.org/get.cfm?i=IS02E3

 

[tcay584]

Kevin Walker:

Please consider what you just lumped together: child pornography is not a heterosexual act again because no adult heterosexual has ever found sexual gratification with another male (so if the child is a boy, the excited observer cannot be a heterosexual).

Also, please note the most infamous example of all the above: Jeffrey Dahmer, who was a homsexual, hung out in homosexual bars & clubs to seek out males as victims. Jeffrey Dahmer, a homosexual, practiced: child porn, necrophilia, cannibalism, ritual murder, torture, and same sex with the victims (both alive and dead).

Not to be a wise guy, but could you name one heterosexual who could compare with Jeff?.

I was referring to a grown man and a girl child being watched by another grown man. That is indeed heterosexual. A pediatrician friend of my dad’s actually witnessed the results of a grown man raping a 4 month old baby girl. Again heterosexual. There are indeed heterosexual child porn purveyors and consumers.
As to Jeffrey Dahmer, I was referring to the recreational sexual deviant as opposed to the criminally insane. I’ll have to get back to you on that one.

 

[GloriaPatri4]

From Narth

from Clinical/Therapeutic Issues
The Problem of Pedophilia

(Published in 1998)

*Editor’s note: Through publicity generated by this paper, and followed up by radio personality Dr. Laura Schlessinger and the Family Research Council, the American Psychological Association and (even more strongly) the American Psychiatric Association have issued statements clarifying that they reject the normalization of pedophilia. We applaud them for making such a strong public statement. *

*Yet we continue to see editorials which defend the A.P.A. for offering a publishing platform to researchers who fail to see pedophilia as intrinsically harmful. Some well-known psychologists say they see no conclusive evidence of harm to victims of pedophilia. Furthermore, the Journal of Homosexuality continues to prominently feature articles which champion the pedophile-rights movement.

We hope that the A.P.A.'s will continue to reject the claims of pedophile advocates. As a final step, we would like to see the American Psychiatric Association revise its diagnostic terminology back to its former definition, which leaves no room for the possibility of a “psychologically normal” pedophile.*

For many years, Western society has considered adult-child sex to be legally, socially, and morally taboo. Pedophiles have been judged criminal by the courts, sinful by theologians, and psychologically disordered by the mental-health profession.

Slowly, however, that situation has been changing.

A Fringe Element Begins to
Make Inroads into the Mainstream

NAMBLA–the North American Man-Boy Love Association–was once the lone voice lobbying for the normalization of pedophilia. NAMBLA representatives marched in gay-pride parades as a fringe element of the gay-rights movement.

Then in 1990, the *Journal of Homosexuality *produced a special double issue devoted to adult-child sex, which was entitled “Male Intergenerational Intimacy” (1). One article said many pedophiles believe they are “born that way and cannot change” (p. 133). Another writer said a man who counseled troubled teenage boys could achieve "miracles… not by preaching to them

Please read article by clicking on link
narth.com/docs/pedophNEW.html

 

[Riley259]

4 marks:

I don’t think the problem stems from people of the same-sex living together. I grew up in a large family of all boys (no sisters). We lived together in close quarters. We certainly didn’t become sexual predators.

I’m not saying that living in close quarters with someone from the same sex increases the chances of having a same-sex attraction, I’m saying that someone who already has a same-sex attraction is putting themselves at risk for lustful attractions by entering a seminary with members of the same-sex. Hope my clarification helps.

 

[Riley259]

Scout:

I’m sorry, but I’ve had enough of this thread and the majority of self-righteous attitudes floating around in here. I’ve stated what I believe to be true, and if other people want to believe something different, then I guess that’s their right. But everytime I read another post of this thread, the hatred just makes me that much more angry.

So, I certainly hope all of you find your own peace with the situation.

Scout :tiphat:

I certainly can’t speak for the other posters in this thread but I do not hate homosexuals or consider myself a homophobe. I work with and am friends with a handful of homosexual individuals and I have the utmost respect for them in regards to their work and general character. However, I vehemently disagree with their active “gay” lifestyle choices and believe those choices to be sinful and immoral. You can love and respect someone but still disagree with them on some fundamental moral issues - this does NOT make a person a homophobe or bigoted and hateful. In fact my love for my homosexual friends is the reason that I’m firmly against their lifestyle choices - I want them to know the truth about themselves and God’s plan for them which is that they are made in the image of Him and that their ultimate happiness depends upon their submitting to His will even if it causes them some suffering. The truth can sometimes hurt.

 

[Kevin_Walker]

tcay584:

I was referring to a grown man and a girl child being watched by another grown man. That is indeed heterosexual. A pediatrician friend of my dad’s actually witnessed the results of a grown man raping a 4 month old baby girl. Again heterosexual. There are indeed heterosexual child porn purveyors and consumers.
As to Jeffrey Dahmer, I was referring to the recreational sexual deviant as opposed to the criminally insane. I’ll have to get back to you on that one.

“Recreational sexual deviant”? That is what Jeffrey Dahmer claimed. He was a homosexual, necrophiliac, cannibal, pedophile, torturer, just for the fun of it.

 

[Chris_Jacobsen]

The question is really asking, “Should a seminary admit a man who has made a commitment to keep violating the Laws of God?”

And the answer to the question is, “No!”

 

[Dj_Roy_Albert]

Ghosty:

I believe that those with same-sex attractions should definately be allowed into the priesthood so long as it doesn’t create scandal.

Have you been living under a rock for the past 10-20 years???

 

[fix]

tcay584:

But is that particular deviance any more repugnant to God than other forms of deviance?

Well, mortal sin is mortal sin. No sanctifying grace is no sanctifying grace.

Is that particular deviant inclination any more dangerous than another type of deviant inclination?

Yes, it is worse than many others. It is a serious condition that can put children at risk in many ways. There are other conditions that may be equally risky, but who is arguing any of these conditions should be given a green light for the seminary or to work around kids?

There are some pretty incredible acts of deviance perpetrated by heterosexuals (child porn, bestiality, necrophilia, snuff films, the list goes on). It’s a case of “Well…his sin is worse than my sin because he’s queer”.

Yes, heterosexuals commit many grave sins but, heterosexuality is the norm. Homosexuality is a deviation in and of itself.

 

[katherine2]

fix:

Yes, heterosexuals commit many grave sins but, heterosexuality is the norm. Homosexuality is a deviation in and of itself.

there is nothing normative about impregnanting a woman and abadoning her, no matter hwo selective certain people want to be in their catagorization of morality. The conservative inisistance at minimizing heterosexual sins.

 

[Lisa_N]

katherine2:

there is nothing normative about impregnanting a woman and abadoning her, no matter hwo selective certain people want to be in their catagorization of morality. The conservative inisistance at minimizing heterosexual sins.

And what does this statement have to do with the discussion? K2 why do you persist in tossing red herrings into the mix? Has the Church been rocked by priests who impregnate women? Has it spent millions in legal claims for this problem? Have there been hundreds of renegade priests “sowing wild oats” in the flock? NO. If you want to discuss bums who leave pregnant women start a new thread.

Lisa N

 

[fix]

katherine2:

there is nothing normative about impregnanting a woman and abadoning her, no matter hwo selective certain people want to be in their catagorization of morality. The conservative inisistance at minimizing heterosexual sins.

Why twist the truth? Heterosexuality is the norm, it is not pathological. Homosexuality is a deviation and is pathology.

Adultery and fornication are sinful, but not necessarily part of a mental disorder. That some heterosexuals are deviants does not make heterosexuality deviant. All homosexual conduct is deviant by definition.

 

[tcay584]

Chris Jacobsen:

The question is really asking, “Should a seminary admit a man who has made a commitment to keep violating the Laws of God?”

And the answer to the question is, “No!”

If he is not actively engaged in homosexual activity, then he is not violating any law of God’s. A herosexual priest who engages in extramarital sex is violating God’s law. If a priest is chaste, who cares if he’s attracted to men or women?

 

[Brad]

tcay584:

Emotional stablility and the ability to think clearly do not arise from sexual orientation. Do you know any straight people who you could classify as emotionally unstable? How about ones who don’t think clearly? If a trait (emotional stability, clear thinking) can be shared by both homosexuals and heterosexuals, then the cause of that trait must lie outside the realm of the unshared sexual orientation. That’s my logic.
Regards,
Jennifer

Jennifer -

You are basing your statements on flawed assumptions. You are assuming that homosexuality is determined at birth, completely genetic, and outside of anyone’s control. This has been proven false by the numerous testimonies of those formerly living the homosexual lifestyle and now happily married to the opposite sex.

From your assumption, you say that homosexuality is not the cause of emotional instability and you support your case by stating that there are heterosexual people that are emotionally unstable.

My point is the reverse. Emotional instability causes irrational behavior, with homosexual behavior being a classic case.

Although some that engage in homosexual acts give the appearance of emotional stability (just as heterosexuals engaging in adultery give such an appearance), that does not mean that they are emotionally stable.

When you engage in sexual acts oustide of the natural plan of marriage with the possibility of procreation, you will not find happiness. When you further pervert this possibility by seeking happiness through same-sex stimulation, you move even further from inner-happiness.

 

[Brad]

tcay584:

Hey Brad,
Just in case you can’t figure this one out.
Homo: Common colloquialism used to refer to homosexuals. Just take out the word sexuals, and you have homo. Get that? OK, next.
Phobic: Fear, or pertaining to fear, an irrational fear.
OK, now that you have your incredibly tricky definition of both parts of the word…just put them together and you have homophobic. A person with an irrational fear of homosexuals.

Don’t ask stupid questions if you don’t want an overly simplistic answer.

Thank you for the definition. It seems that noone likes to define it but many like to say it. I can tell you don’t like to define it by your snide, sarcastic, and critical response.

Anyways, thank you for the definition. Now I will show you that I (and others here) do not fit the definition.

I have a rational concern regarding normalizing homosexual behavior. I have zero fear of homosexuals.

Let’s use proper terminology.

 

[Brad]

Scout:

Really? That’s funny, because I thought your posts sounded rather childish myself, as did the “neener” comment. Grow up yourself. If you don’t want to agree with me, then don’t. But don’t tell me I sound like a child because I don’t agree with you. THAT is childish. Oh, and the fact that I have a husband and three small children would have nothing to do with the fact that I don’t have time to dig through all the books and articles I’ve read to quote you something that you’ve already made up your mind against anyway.

Here’s the facts I think we can both agree on. You think I’m wrong. That’s fine because I think you’re wrong. Can we all go home now?

Scout :tiphat:

The fact that you have 3 small children and you are not concerned about deviant homosexuals in the priesthood is quite disillusioning. Please put protection of your children above your ideology for their sake.

 

[Brad]

tcay584:

But is that particular deviance any more repugnant to God than other forms of deviance? Is that particular deviant inclination any more dangerous than another type of deviant inclination? Most posts here seem to say yes, and I disagree completely. There are some pretty incredible acts of deviance perpetrated by heterosexuals (child porn, bestiality, necrophilia, snuff films, the list goes on). It’s a case of “Well…his sin is worse than my sin because he’s queer”.

You have accepted the lies of modern culture. You are disgusted at some deviant sexual practices but think others(homosexual acts) are quite normal. Homosexaul acts are just as unnatural. If you looked at this purely intellectually, you would notice that homosexuals are more likely to be connected to other deviant sexual practices than heterosexuals. Again, this is because they are looking for self-fufillment through a sexaul high - and it can never be achieved this way.

 

[Brad]

Child Molestation & Homosexuality

The 1948 Kinsey survey found that 37% of the gays and 2% of the lesbians admitted to sexual relations with under-17-yr-olds, and 28% of the gays and 1% of the lesbians admitted to sexual relations with under-16-yr-olds while they themselves were aged 18 or older. (18)

In 1970 the Kinsey Institute interviewed 565 white gays in San Francisco: 25% of them admitted to having had sex with boys aged 16 or younger while they themselves were at least 21. (19)

In The Gay Report, 23% of the gays and 6% of the lesbians admitted to sexual interaction with youth less than 16 years of age. (20)

In France, 129 convicted gays (21)(average age 34 years) said they had had sexual contact with a total of 11,007 boys (an average of 85 different boys per man). Abel et al reported similarly that men who molested girls outside their family had averaged 20 victims each; those who molested boys averaged 150 victims each. (22) 985, 31 (60%) were homosexual. (15)

cathfam.org/Hitems/ChildMoles.html

In a word - disgusting.

 

[debi]

In theory, chastity is chastity, if a religious is practicing chastity, then celebacy would follow and it would really not matter much what “tendendancies” these people were born with. The reality is for years we have looked the other way as priests have had housekeepers, AND the priesthood /religious life was a vocation that could “hide” the homosexual tendencies. “Johnny always was such a sensitive boy, he would make a caring priest” “Mary was always so strong, yada yada yada” Perhaps many really thought they could control these urges. Perhaps for many years this was true - but times have changed, and for those with a marginally pursued religious vocation (less prayer) these tendencies were too great a burden to control.
Anyway the balance is certainly off now. There is a large % of religious with agendas that are not about saving souls - even their own.
That being said, perhaps there was a time and perhaps there will be again when it did not matter. When there was so much ostracizism from within that the mere thought of being caught was enough to keep any impropiety from happening. That prayer was the norm and God was ALLOWED to conquor all.

I guess I voted I don’t know - now i do. At this time we can’t allow it.