THE ELEPHANT IN THE CHURCH a Catholic priest speaks out against homosexual priests

[sbcoral]

swampfox:

You are the one who is resorting to mean spirited name calling.

Huh? When did I do that? I love everyone, including people who are different from me.

 

[Lisa_N]

Scout:

What would you call that, besides being patronizing?

Scout :tiphat:

I didn’t say it wasn’t patronizing. Your presentation is of one who is young and assuming that your own experience and opinion has the same weight as extensive study by experts. Frankly I didn’t pat you on the head, I sent you back to the library for more research.

Lisa N

 

[Lisa_N]

sbcoral:

Huh? When did I do that? I love everyone, including people who are different from me.

Calling people homophobic bigots or hateful doesn’t sound too loving to ME. YMMV

Lisa N

 

[tcay584]

Brad:

The logic is that homosexuality is intrinsically disordered and heterosexuality is natural and normal.

Where is your logic?

Emotional stablility and the ability to think clearly do not arise from sexual orientation. Do you know any straight people who you could classify as emotionally unstable? How about ones who don’t think clearly? If a trait (emotional stability, clear thinking) can be shared by both homosexuals and heterosexuals, then the cause of that trait must lie outside the realm of the unshared sexual orientation. That’s my logic.
Regards,
Jennifer

 

[Lisa_N]

Scout and others who believe that this is a pedophelia problem, the DSM states that the target of such fantasies is USUALLY under age 12. Pre-pubescent. As you can see by reading the various studies, the majority of victims were over 12. The following from Crimelibrary.com
Lisa N
crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/psychology/pedophiles/

It is important to understand the differences between pedophiles and molesters. Pedophilia, which is a psychological disorder, is a distinct sexual preference for pre-pubescent children. The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM 111-R), which is published by the American Psychological Association, supplies this definition of pedophilia: “recurrent, intense, sexual urges and sexual arousing fantasies of at least six months duration involving sexual activity with a pre-pubescent child” (DSM, V.3, 1987). Generally, this means the target of the fantasy will typically be less than 12 years old. Notice the definition does not require the person to actually engage in a sexual act. Pedophilia is a psychological disorder that does not require, and usually does not involve, a criminal act. The pedophile might keep his desires a secret. He may never go public or share his fantasies with anyone. At times, they will even marry a single mother to gain or continue access to her children. Pedophiles can be very determined and single-minded in their efforts to stay close to children. Maintaining access to children at all costs is one of the defining trademarks of pedophilia, which will be discussed later. Child molesters, however, can have many different motivations for their crimes. And those motives, surprisingly, are often not of a sexual origin.

 

[tcay584]

Brad:

Oh, I get it. So you are willing to toss around terms like “homophobic” and not define them and then call us haters and intolerants because we disagree with your opinion.

That makes you “others-righteous” or does it just make you at least equally as self-righteous but just with a different opinion?

Hey Brad,
Just in case you can’t figure this one out.
Homo: Common colloquialism used to refer to homosexuals. Just take out the word sexuals, and you have homo. Get that? OK, next.
Phobic: Fear, or pertaining to fear, an irrational fear.
OK, now that you have your incredibly tricky definition of both parts of the word…just put them together and you have homophobic. A person with an irrational fear of homosexuals.

Don’t ask stupid questions if you don’t want an overly simplistic answer.

 

[sbcoral]

Lisa N:

Calling people homophobic bigots or hateful doesn’t sound too loving to ME. YMMV

Lisa N

Lisa, I even love hateful bigots. That is how large my wonderful heart is.

 

[GloriaPatri4]

Lisa N:

Scout and others who believe that this is a pedophelia problem, the DSM states that the target of such fantasies is USUALLY under age 12. Pre-pubescent. As you can see by reading the various studies, the majority of victims were over 12. The following from Crimelibrary.com
Lisa N
crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/psychology/pedophiles/

The pedophile might keep his desires a secret. He may never go public or share his fantasies with anyone. At times, they will even marry a single mother to gain or continue access to her children. Pedophiles can be very determined and single-minded in their efforts to stay close to children. Maintaining access to children at all costs is one of the defining trademarks of pedophilia, which will be discussed later. Child molesters, however, can have many different motivations for their crimes. And those motives, surprisingly, are often not of a sexual origin.

That is frightening!

 

[swampfox]

sbcoral:

Lisa, I even love hateful bigots. That is how large my wonderful heart is.

Then you must love yourself if what you expressed reflects your being.

 

[tcay584]

Lisa N:

I
I for one would like to see what you have that provides evidence this was not mostly a problem of predatory homosexuals.

Lisa N

I think the adjective you used here is so completely correct and timely. Predatory is the key. Not just homosexual, but predatory homosexual. That’s as evil and bad as a predatory heterosexual sex offender to me. That one word has been left out up until now, and it changes the entire focus of the conversation. I will not argue, nor do I think anyone else would, that a sexual predator of whichever orientation should be tolerated within the Church or general society.
Regards,
Jennifer

 

[Scout]

Lisa N:

I didn’t say it wasn’t patronizing. Your presentation is of one who is young and assuming that your own experience and opinion has the same weight as extensive study by experts. Frankly I didn’t pat you on the head, I sent you back to the library for more research.

Lisa N

Ah…so then you admit that you did call me “young”. I am not young and my presentation is not that of someone who is young, so don’t patronize me. I am not a child, so don’t treat me like one. And you didn’t “send” me anywhere. You wouldn’t trust my sources, even if I gave them to you. Go do your own homework. I know where I stand on the situation and nothing you say or “claim” is going to change my mind.

Scout :tiphat:

 

[Scout]

Lisa N:

I didn’t say it wasn’t patronizing. Your presentation is of one who is young and assuming that your own experience and opinion has the same weight as extensive study by experts. Frankly I didn’t pat you on the head, I sent you back to the library for more research.

Lisa N

Ah…so then you admit that you did call me “young”. Or did you just “suggest” it? Perhaps there have been other statements of yours that should’ve been labeled as “suggested” as opposed to “fact”.

I am not young and my presentation is not that of someone who is young, so don’t patronize me. I am not a child, so don’t treat me like one. And you didn’t “send” me anywhere. You wouldn’t trust my sources, even if I gave them to you. You wanna know why I stand where I stand, go do your own homework. I’m not your mother. I know where I stand on the situation and nothing you say or “claim” is going to change my mind.

Scout :tiphat:

 

[RomanRyan1088]

Lucania:

I’m not SUPPOSED TO KNOW if my Priest is Homosexual or Heterosexual because my Priest is SUPPOSED TO BE CELEBATE! If a Priest is professing that he is Homosexual, than that tells me that he is not chaste and faithful to the vows of Celebacy. If my Priest professes that he is Heterosexual than that would mean he is not chaste and faithful to his vow of celebacy either. He is a Priest, yes I know they are human but their sexuality should not be an issue. To me, professing ones sexuality means you are practicing it, otherwise why is it an issue? To answer your question, my answer is No professed Homosexual should be a Priest. How can a Homosexual Priest give me The Holy Eucharist if he is a “practicing Homosexual?”

AMEN!!! :clapping:

 

[fix]

tcay584:

Emotional stablility and the ability to think clearly do not arise from sexual orientation. Do you know any straight people who you could classify as emotionally unstable? How about ones who don’t think clearly? If a trait (emotional stability, clear thinking) can be shared by both homosexuals and heterosexuals, then the cause of that trait must lie outside the realm of the unshared sexual orientation. That’s my logic.
Regards,
Jennifer

The issue is that homosexuality is a mental condition. The behavior is deviant. Heterosexuality has a subset of deviants, but it is not the norm. Homosexuality is deviant by definition. Whether it is acted out on prepubecsent, adolescent or adult it is an unstable emotional condition.

 

[Lisa_N]

Scout:

Ah…so then you admit that you did call me “young”. Or did you just “suggest” it? Perhaps there have been other statements of yours that should’ve been labeled as “suggested” as opposed to “fact”.

I am not young and my presentation is not that of someone who is young, so don’t patronize me. I am not a child, so don’t treat me like one. And you didn’t “send” me anywhere. You wouldn’t trust my sources, even if I gave them to you. You wanna know why I stand where I stand, go do your own homework. I’m not your mother. I know where I stand on the situation and nothing you say or “claim” is going to change my mind.

Scout :tiphat:

Scout I said you SOUND young. You may not believe your presentation sounds like a young and rather naive individual but IMO it does sound as if you are merely the world’s greatest expert on your own opinion. Using “wanna” does not make a good impression. Then to claim I wouldn’t trust your sources so you won’t reveal them is frankly beyond childish. This is followed by nothing you can say will change my mind…well I am still waiting for the “neener neener neener!” If you aren’t a young person, you play one very well.

So what are the sources you have that dispute the Bishop’s Report, the Jay Report, the various books and publications?

Lisa N

 

[Scout]

Lisa N:

Scout I said you SOUND young. You may not believe your presentation sounds like a young and rather naive individual but IMO it does sound as if you are merely the world’s greatest expert on your own opinion. Using “wanna” does not make a good impression. Then to claim I wouldn’t trust your sources so you won’t reveal them is frankly beyond childish. This is followed by nothing you can say will change my mind…well I am still waiting for the “neener neener neener!” If you aren’t a young person, you play one very well.

So what are the sources you have that dispute the Bishop’s Report, the Jay Report, the various books and publications?

Lisa N

Really? That’s funny, because I thought your posts sounded rather childish myself, as did the “neener” comment. Grow up yourself. If you don’t want to agree with me, then don’t. But don’t tell me I sound like a child because I don’t agree with you. THAT is childish. Oh, and the fact that I have a husband and three small children would have nothing to do with the fact that I don’t have time to dig through all the books and articles I’ve read to quote you something that you’ve already made up your mind against anyway.

Here’s the facts I think we can both agree on. You think I’m wrong. That’s fine because I think you’re wrong. Can we all go home now?

Scout :tiphat:

 

[GloriaPatri4]

Scout:

You’ve decided your opinion on the situation, and so have I. Nobody posting on this thread is going to change their minds about the situation, no matter what evidence is being given. I know I’m not going to change my mind because I don’t trust your evidence, and you’re not going to trust mind, so what difference does it make?

Scout :tiphat:

Dear Scout,

Please produce your evidence, I will read it and consider it.

 

[tcay584]

fix:

The issue is that homosexuality is a mental condition. The behavior is deviant. Heterosexuality has a subset of deviants, but it is not the norm. Homosexuality is deviant by definition. Whether it is acted out on prepubecsent, adolescent or adult it is an unstable emotional condition.

But is that particular deviance any more repugnant to God than other forms of deviance? Is that particular deviant inclination any more dangerous than another type of deviant inclination? Most posts here seem to say yes, and I disagree completely. There are some pretty incredible acts of deviance perpetrated by heterosexuals (child porn, bestiality, necrophilia, snuff films, the list goes on). It’s a case of “Well…his sin is worse than my sin because he’s queer”.

 

[otm]

AsStAnselmPrays:

I said “no” because since the Church has denied professed homosexuals the Eucharist, what’s the point of having a homosexual ADMINISTER the Eucharist? There isn’t any. At every Mass, the bread and wine is consecrated, and it is eaten and drank by the priest. Hello, that means that a homosexual is consuming the body and blood of Christ, something that “lay homosexuals” aren’t allowed to do. Homosexual priests defeat the purpose of the Vatican’s stand on homosexuality.

I do not wish my response to be seen as a defense of ordaining homosexuals. However, you are painting with too broad a brush.

Homosexuals who have openly supported the homosexual lifestyle (that is, sexual activity) have been banned from receiving Communion. That ban was specific to those openly protesting.

You are making the assumption that because a priest might have homosexual, as opposed to heterosexual tendencies, he is therefore sexually active. That does not logically follow. what about the priest who has homosexual tendencies, but lives a chaste life?

I would agree with you that an unchaste priest makes absolutley no sense.

How do you respond to the chaste ones?

 

[GloriaPatri4]

Child Molestation & Homosexuality

The 1948 Kinsey survey found that 37% of the gays and 2% of the lesbians admitted to sexual relations with under-17-yr-olds, and 28% of the gays and 1% of the lesbians admitted to sexual relations with under-16-yr-olds while they themselves were aged 18 or older. (18)

In 1970 the Kinsey Institute interviewed 565 white gays in San Francisco: 25% of them admitted to having had sex with boys aged 16 or younger while they themselves were at least 21. (19)

In The Gay Report, 23% of the gays and 6% of the lesbians admitted to sexual interaction with youth less than 16 years of age. (20)

In France, 129 convicted gays (21)(average age 34 years) said they had had sexual contact with a total of 11,007 boys (an average of 85 different boys per man). Abel et al reported similarly that men who molested girls outside their family had averaged 20 victims each; those who molested boys averaged 150 victims each. (22) 985, 31 (60%) were homosexual. (15)

cathfam.org/Hitems/ChildMoles.html