THE ELEPHANT IN THE CHURCH a Catholic priest speaks out against homosexual priests

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swampfox said:
“Professed” implies a self-identity that transcends their priestly identity. Frankly, I’m tired of watching the Church go down the road to bankruptcy and the hard work of countless faithful immigrants go down the drain, and having my donations go not for good works but to compensate victims of what largely has been the predatory practices of homosexual priests. Continuing to keep the priesthood open to professed homosexuals is pure suicide for the Catholic Church.
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Who’s going to join the priesthood if we don’t let in homosexuals? By some counts, half of all priests are gay. Maybe it’s more.
There aren’t many red-blooded, woman-wanting, heterosexual men knocking at the door of priesthood, choosing to deny their normal sexual impulses and live a life of chastity.
Many churches now don’t have any priests of their own. Take away the gays and the Catholic Church would fall apart. But at least those darn gays would be gone! Hurray!
 
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sbcoral:
Who’s going to join the priesthood if we don’t let in homosexuals? By some counts, half of all priests are gay. Maybe it’s more.
There aren’t many red-blooded, woman-wanting, heterosexual men knocking at the door of priesthood, choosing to deny their normal sexual impulses and live a life of chastity.
Many churches now don’t have any priests of their own. Take away the gays and the Catholic Church would fall apart. But at least those darn gays would be gone! Hurray!
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It was suggested that why the Vatican did not issue a blanket statement banning homosexuals from the priesthood as a result of the sex abuse tragedy was because there would be no more Priests. (The Vatican had already issued a statement against ordaining homosexuals and pederasts as Priests in 1961).

A lot of men had left the seminaries or refused to attend was because of the obvious homosexual atmosphere (kind of as obvious as the alcoholic atmosphere noted working in a shipyard). So the bad drive out the good in any all male institution, including Catholic seminaries.

So in my opinion, its quality and not the quantity of the Priests that are needed. One single incident of grope by a homosexual Priest is one too many, so all homosexual Priests must go.
 
sbcoral,

Perhaps if Catholics began to actually encourage their sons to become Priests the problem would disappear. In today’s culture, parents have 1-3 kids, so encouraging a son to join the Priesthood is not as attractive as it used to be. If parents had 5-10 kids like they used to, then encouraging vocations would come more naturally.

Catholics want “the Church” to solve the problem, but Catholics are NOT willing to do anything to help. Catholics are part of the Body of Christ, and it is our duty to help build that Body.

Pray for vocations…offer mortifications for vocations…enocuraging young men to consider the Priesthood…do everything you personally can…if you have a son, then prayerfully consider encouraging him to join the clergy…etc…

What greater blessing is their then seeing a son become a Priest? Think of all the spiritual grandchildren a parent would have.

This problem would go away in 10 years if Catholics became Catholic again!
 
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sbcoral:
So, what should I do? Spit in the face of the priests who have served me and my family and my parish well for several years? That would show them. That would make up for someone else’s sins. That would be something Jesus would do.
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Well that silly outburst certainly adds to the quality of the discussion. Frankly sbcoral, unless you have been fornicating with these supposed homosexual priests, I don’t think you KNOW what is in their hearts. You may suspect but you do not know. Could we keep the discussion to what is known?

I think the point is that for a number of years at least some seminaries selected FOR a homosexual orientation. Homosexuals who wish to keep up their ‘lifestyle’ will want to protect it. Having a bunch of serious, holy and chaste heterosexuals does interfere with the rollicking good time that was apparently going on behind closed doors at seminaries. There is also frankly little more repulsive to heterosexual males than overt homosexuals or pressure to join that activity. Having read a number of books on the subject, I think it’s clear the Church made a lot of errors regarding tolerating and looking the other way when deviant behavior was starting to infiltrate our seminary students. We need to recognize these mistakes and prevent following the same ‘road to perdition’ in the future.

Lisa N
 
First off, ALL attraction to sin is inherently disordered according to the Church. Period. End of story. Humans have been disordered since the advent of Original Sin. The argument that same sex attraction is unique simply doesn’t fly.

Furthermore, same sex attraction does not necessarily impair one’s ability to think and act rationally. Same sex attraction is not a compulsion by definition, just as heterosexual attraction is not a compulsion. There ARE people with same sex attraction who are compulsive, meaning that they have an impaired ability to think and act rationally, and this is true of any sexual compulsion. Such people should absolutely be barred from the priesthood, just as compulsive gamblers and compulsive liars should be barred.

Sexual compulsives, including some SSAs, have a mental disorder preventing them from acting in a rational manner, and making them unfit as shepards. The reason that homosexual attraction in and of itself has been removed from the list of mental disorders is simply because it doesn’t go hand in hand with irrational behavior, unlike compulsive disorders and things like schizophrenia and depression.

Is homosexual sexual activity wrong? Yes! Is it disordered? Yes! Is attraction to the same sex, or attraction to ANY sinful behavior disordered? Yes! Is attraction the same as compulsion? Absolutely not! Otherwise everyone who’s ever been tempted to steal could be called a compulsive thief, and that is irrational.
 
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sbcoral:
Who’s going to join the priesthood if we don’t let in homosexuals? By some counts, half of all priests are gay. Maybe it’s more.
There aren’t many red-blooded, woman-wanting, heterosexual men knocking at the door of priesthood, choosing to deny their normal sexual impulses and live a life of chastity.
Many churches now don’t have any priests of their own. Take away the gays and the Catholic Church would fall apart. But at least those darn gays would be gone! Hurray!
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That’s simply a silly comment. Those predatory gays are bankrupting Christ’s Church. If what you say is true then we’re doomed already, but I don’t see the evidence that there’s a dearth of priests. Ironically and blessedly, there are many orthodox men of faith, who do not suffer from any homosexual disorder, available and willing to serve as priests and many of them live in countries to which the Church had sent missionaries in the past. In this way, the Church in the US and Europe can cleanse itself and the priesthood. It would seem the only people who would have a problem with that are those who object to orthodox Catholicism and/or nonCaucasian priests.
 
Steve Andersen:
Sigh
At the risk of repeating myself
Homosexuality was removed from the standard manuals of mental health disorders decades ago.

Remember there are those who argue that celibacy is an abnormal behavior in healthy adults
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You seem to be unaware of Church teaching on the matter. See the Catechism.
 
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Ghosty:
First off, ALL attraction to sin is inherently disordered according to the Church. Period. End of story. Humans have been disordered since the advent of Original Sin. The argument that same sex attraction is unique simply doesn’t fly.

Is homosexual sexual activity wrong? Yes! Is it disordered? Yes! Is attraction to the same sex, or attraction to ANY sinful behavior disordered? Yes! Is attraction the same as compulsion? Absolutely not! Otherwise everyone who’s ever been tempted to steal could be called a compulsive thief, and that is irrational.
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Hi Ghosty,

As politely as I can write, you are a bit wrong on both accounts (actually you are very wrong on both accounts).

The 1961 Vatican Document S.C. Rel, 2 FEB 1961
The “Careful Selection and Training of Candidates for the States of Perfection and Sacred Orders”

-and-

The 2002 Catholic Catechism

**clearly stated that homosexuality is “objectively disordered”. **Sin is not mentioned in this definition of homosexuality.

Your second mistake is a common one, the *non-sequitur, *for example: Is attraction the same as compulsion? Absolutely not is somewhat correct because extreme attraction is a form of compulsion. But the error is: Why did you compare attraction to compulsion in the first place? Same Sex Attraction Disorder is a mere euphemism for homosexuality, and homosexuality is a mental health disorder. You concluded your argument with an inappropriate analogy, if anyone was tempted to steal they would all be a compulsive thief. The word temptation wasn’t even used in your argument, so why conclude with it?

The 1961 Vatican document strongly disavows homosexuals from becoming Priests. No homosexual should be a Priest in the first place, and if it wasn’t for homosexuals infiltrating the Roman Catholic Church, there would be no sexual abuse scandal going on right now! 🙂
 
Official Catholic Church teaching on Homosexuality, read on.

From the Catechism:

**
Chastity and homosexuality
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2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
From the Bible:**

**
Romans 1: 24-27
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**. 24 Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts for the mutual degradation of their bodies. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, 27 and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.

**
1 Corinthians 6: 9-10
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**. 9 Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.

**
 
Kevin Walker:
All you have done is to minimilize the mental health disorder which characterizes homosexuality; even if a homosexual is chaste, they are still lacking in emotional stability and clarity of thought. Homosexuals are not supposed to become Priests (or Nuns) in the first place, and if this simple rule was enforced to begin with, then the sexual abuse tragedy in the Church never would have happened!
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I disagree with your pionts. In times long gone by when there was no “gay lib” Candidates for the Priesthood solemnly took thier vow of chastity and lived it. It did not matter your ‘inclination’ as if someone had homosexual leanings they knew they had to work harder at eliminating desire and staying chaste. There was not the Oprahs and lefty commentaters saying homosexuality is OK. I am sure there are many Saints who suffered from ssa but overcame and became Holy as is the call to all of us.
The original poster, tho’ with good intention, fails to see the difference between a man who identifies himself as homosexual (active or not) and a man who knowing his weaknesses in this area, sets his heart on serving Christ and doing his bit for the Kingdom.
The whole world has become gender confused mainly due to the homosexualy orientated media and left wing ideologies of ‘equality’. Stay faithful to the Church and her Mother, re-create Catholic culture rather than being at the mercy of secular culture.
 
I will throw in my 2 cents from an insiders point of view. It is possible that having a few chaste and orthodox men, who happen to suffer from same sex desires, could be good priests. In the old days when discipline was less lax it was perhaps more possible. I am sure we have had some good priests who bore this cross. They knew it was not a “gift” from God, but a consequence of original sin ie. a disordered desire.

BUT…now it is different. Some dioceses, not all by any means, have a higher percentage. Also some of these men choose not to be chaste and import “gay” attitudes into the priesthood or seminary. In some places it reached a critical mass. This is not even across the board. Some dioceses are free of such influence. The percentage is probably not as high as some like to put it. They don’t really know. It’s just propaganda.

So, I think it is time to be less lax. Now is not the moment in history to take such risks. And it is a risk to ordain such men. Especially when the culture is working so hard to mainstream immoral lifestyles. It is hard to expect they would be immune from this. It would be an intolerable hardship. It has a bad effect on the morale of the priesthood. Also it makes vocations work extremely difficult. If a young man sees obviously homosexual priests who prance around do you think he wants to be one of them? The most noble thing a homosexual can do right now is to NOT enter the priesthood. That would be a very honorable thing and God would surely bless him for it. I would admire such a sacrifice and the individual making it. If he lived a chaste and holy life. Perhaps joined a 3rd order. He would probably rank ahead of me in the Kingdom of God, if I make it.

Maybe at some point we can allow selected men who we suspect might have this problem, but who are absolutely chaste and orthodox, to become priests. However, it would be only a very very few, as it was in the old days. But I think for now we need to avoid ordaining them. Sure a few will slip in since we are not perfect. Hopefully they will be solid men who will live as good priests. That’s my perspective.
 
I’m not SUPPOSED TO KNOW if my Priest is Homosexual or Heterosexual because my Priest is SUPPOSED TO BE CELEBATE! If a Priest is professing that he is Homosexual, than that tells me that he is not chaste and faithful to the vows of Celebacy. If my Priest professes that he is Heterosexual than that would mean he is not chaste and faithful to his vow of celebacy either. He is a Priest, yes I know they are human but their sexuality should not be an issue. To me, professing ones sexuality means you are practicing it, otherwise why is it an issue? To answer your question, my answer is No professed Homosexual should be a Priest. How can a Homosexual Priest give me The Holy Eucharist if he is a “practicing Homosexual?”
 
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GloriaPatri4:
THE ELEPHANT IN THE CHURCH

2/17/200510:21:00 PM
By Fr. Charles Dahlby

As a Catholic priest I have an investment in issues that affect the Church and the people of God and as a Christian I have an obligation to speak out. So let me make the following points as clearly as I can:
  1. Most of the scandals and evils we see in the Church today are brought about primarily by homosexuality.
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## Poor R.E.
dissent
adultery
fascist politics
marxism
poverty
unemployment
liturgical abuses
intolerance
bigotry
superstition
irreverence
lapsation
lack of priests
careerism among clergy
**- are caused by homosexuality ? **
It’s a point of view. ##
  1. Even though Church documents forbid the acceptance of homosexuals into the seminary and their ordination to the priesthood, those in authority have for years looked the other way, (Don’t ask, don’t tell) and homosexuals have flocked into the Church. Now they have positions of authority! They use this authority to protect and promote one another creating a distinct sub-culture that is rapidly becoming dominant. This sub-culture is the ideal homosexual environment. As a priest no one questions why you aren’t married. You get respect that you never earned. You have a target-rich environment, especially if you have a school, and if you slip up and get caught the civil authorities will not want to prosecute you because you’re a priest and, as we have seen, the Church will cover you, defend you, and may set you up in another parish or even another diocese so you can continue to prey on God’s people. A homosexual predator could not hope to find a more friendly and supportive environment than priesthood in the American Catholic Church!
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## Not all homosexuals are predators. A priest who cannot distinguish paedophiles from homosexuals has no business to speak like this. ##
  1. To those who try to avoid the truth and hide behind some phony facade such as “addiction” or claim the answer will be found in a
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good workshop on chastity are either fools or liars.

**## That’s one way to describe Father John Harvey. The Vatican appears not to agree, since it adopted his ideas as the foundation for the 1986 Letter of the SCDF on “The Pastoral Care of the Homosexual Person”. **
**This priest’s alternative suggestion is…? **
**The way some people denounce homosexuality with a vigour seldom spared for other evils, never ceases to amaze me. **##
Get a few old diocesan directories and a magic marker and go through them: How many heterosexual priests died of Aids? How many heterosexual priests have been pedophiles? How many heterosexual priests have been a source of sex scandals? (Only a small percentage of these ever reach the newspapers!) How much money have heterosexual priests cost the Church in lawsuits, pay-offs and cover-ups?
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  1. Many priests are aware of homosexuals in the priesthood, but they do not have the spirituality or the courage to confront the issue, so they lapse into a false charity that is nothing more than an excuse for doing nothing. (A response that Jesus did not allow!) Or they try to wash their hands of anything outside their parish boundaries. Also not allowed!)…
 
If as several posters and the original article point out, the Church forbids homosexuals from being ordained to the priesthood, then they should not be admitted to seminaries and they should not be ordained. Period.
 
VATICAN TO ENFORCE 1961 DOCUMENT BANNING HOMOSEXUAL PRIESTS AND RELIGIOUS

Implementation Previously Left to Local Bishops

ST. PAUL, MINNESOTA, March 27, 2002 (LSN.ca) - The March 14 edition of the U.S. Catholic paper, the Wanderer reports on Vatican reaction to the growing revelations of mostly homosexual sex scandals within the U.S. Catholic Church.

The Holy See has recognized that a major contributor to these sex abuses has been the reluctance of bishops to apply the 1961 document from the Sacred Congregation for Religious which prohibits the admission of homosexuals to the diocesan priesthood and religious orders. The document states: “Those affected by the perverse inclination to homosexuality or pederasty should be excluded from religious vows and ordination,” because priestly ministry would place such persons in “grave danger”.

A March 6 Catholic News Service (CNS) article stated that Vatican officials are “pressing harder so that people of permanent homosexual orientation are screened out as candidates for the priesthood”. The CNS article also reported that the Congregation for Catholic Education is considering a “new document” reformulating the instructions of the 1961 document on the question of admitting homosexuals to seminaries.

See related LifeSite coverage:
POPE’S SPOKESMAN SAYS HOMOSEXUALS “JUST CANNOT BE ORDAINED” PRIESTS
lifesite.net/ldn/2002/mar/02030402.html
CLERGY SEXUAL ABUSE SCANDAL MORE ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY THAN PEDOPHILIA
lifesite.net/ldn/2002/mar/02032205.html
ARE PEDOPHILES CRIMINALS OR VICTIMS
lifesite.net/interim/2001/jan/05pedophi…

See the CNS article:
catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/20020…
 
I am amazed at some of the ignorant statements made on this forum. What is going to take to get some of you to understand that homosexuality and pedophilia are NOT the same thing, and to think that every homosexual is some kind of predator is absolutely wrong. It’s like saying all black men can’t be trusted around white women. Both statements are just plain ignorant! :mad:

The scandal in the Church had nothing to do with homosexuality. It was the result of a some very sick individuals who were attacking children and other individuals covering for them.

You cannot make the assumption that if you’re gay, you’re a pedophile and can’t be trusted around children.

Scout :tiphat:
 
Kevin Walker:
You seem to be in denial to the fact that homosexuality is a mental health disorder so that even a chaste homosexual Priest will be mentally deranged and incapable of emotional stability and clarity of thought.
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You are correct. I completely, absolutely disagree with you on this. If your reasoning stands, anyone with any inclination towards any sin is toast. I agree with you that acting on homosexual desires is wrong, but I do not believe that homosexual=pedophile=deranged and incapable of abstaining. I believe that all sin (hetero, homo, or any kind) is hideous to God, especially where children are involved, but I’m not looking for a scapegoat to blame this on. The Church cannot be exclusive…that’s not what Christ taught. I for one don’t want Him looking at me at the judgement and saying “What were you thinking? Don’t you know they are My children too?”.
 
A lot of poeple here are in need of prayer in order to increase their compassion. I will offer for that in my Rosary today.I am amazed and at the same time saddened at some of the statements being made here.
 
Do you have compassion for the thousands of gay wolf in Gay sheeps clothings victoms. Pulease. dont waste your “prayers” on us. Save it for the victoms who may grow up to act out this horedous and most hanius act.
 
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