The Fear of Hell

[Charlemagne_III]

To fear hell, one has to believe that it exists, and that heaven exists, and that going or not going in one or the other is entirely and solely a matter of one’s choice.

In other words, you’re either talking only about Catholics; or you’re taking a lot for granted about other people.

You don’t have to believe in hell to fear that it exists. Many atheists on their deathbeds decide they had better fear it. Why would they decide suddenly to fear it if they hadn’t been aware all the while it was possible that it exists, and that they had better get their act together before they end up in the very place they said did not exist?

Another thing I take for granted about people who are not Catholics is that they are not altogether sure they have the truth, and that is why they are searching for truth at Catholic Answers.

 

[rinnie]

Did you read my earlier reply here in this thread?

Okay in this post you said only Catholics are able to make the choice to begin with. I disagree. Protestants believe in hell.

How do you fill God plays gotcha?

 

[Lucy107]

You don’t have to believe in hell to fear that it exists.

Yes, one does. Otherwise that fear is just pathological paranoia, not a justified fear.

Many atheists on their deathbeds decide they had better fear it. Why would they decide suddenly to fear it if they hadn’t been aware all the while it was possible that it exists, and that they had better get their act together before they end up in the very place they said did not exist?

That goes for those particular atheists. Not for just anyone who is not a Catholic.

Another thing I take for granted about people who are not Catholics is that they are not altogether sure they have the truth, and that is why they are searching for truth at Catholic Answers.

Awww. How nice.

Nedless to say, blanket statements like yours from earlier and from another poster certainly are not the sort of statements that suggest the maker of those statements is open to actually discuss anything or that he cares about the people he supposedly talks about.

 

[rinnie]

Lucy I do agree with you on one thing though, to fear hell you have to believe it exists. I can give you that one.

And I can agree that if you reject God you reject hell also. Because if you don’t believe he exists, how could you fear living without him in the next world, if you don’t want him in this world.

Or even if you believe he exists, you can choose to live your life without him in this world, and why would you want him in the next if you reject him here. I can see this. It happens everyday.

And for us Catholic’s in the state of mortal sin, we forget this sometimes. And wonder why we don’t feel close to God, but forget we chose to separate ourselves from him with our sin.

 

[Lucy107]

Okay in this post you said only Catholics are able to make the choice to begin with. I disagree. Protestants believe in hell.

“Protestants” believe in hell on very different terms than Catholics.
As for those who are popularly known as “Protestants,” we’d need to go denomination by denomination, as, for example, Calvinists believe in hell on predestination terms, something quite different from other Christian denominations.

But that’s not the point here. Neither you nor the other poster were talking about Catholics, or Christians, but about everyone, Christian or not. Completely disregarding that many people don’t believe any specifically Christian doctrine, such as the one that humans are made in God’s image.

From the way you spoke, it appears you’re simply eager to judge and condemn people, regardless of what they actually know or don’t know, regardless of what they actually believe or don’t believe.

Like those medieval Christians who took for granted that the whole world has the necessary and sufficient knowledge of the Gospel, and that therefore, all should be judged by the same standards.

How do you fill God plays gotcha?

The other poster said that God plays hide and seek. I asked him if he thinks God also plays gotcha.

I don’t think God plays gotcha, nor hide and seek.

 

[rinnie]

Proof that you can believe that he exists, but refuse to accept and follow him would be Satan.

Not that people can refuse to believe in the devil either. People have free will to believe and live the way they want.

The biggest lie the devil ever pulled over the world was to get people to deny he exists. That’s his number one weapon.

 

[Lucy107]

Or even if you believe he exists, you can choose to live your life without him in this world,

I don’t know how that is possible at all.

I cannot imagine what that would be like - to believe that God exists, and yet choose to live as if He didn’t exist.

And for us Catholic’s in the state of mortal sin, we forget this sometimes. And wonder why we don’t feel close to God, but forget we chose to separate ourselves from him with our sin.

Well, why do you Catholics do that??

 

[rinnie]

I don’t know how that is possible at all.

I cannot imagine what that would be like - to believe that God exists, and yet choose to live as if He didn’t exist.

Well, why do you Catholics do that??

To answer your first question, simple, follow what works for you, forget who you hurt, forget right or wrong, have no morals. Only love of self. Forget what he teaches, and do what you want. It happens all the time. Do you have a TV? Did you ever watch the news. I can’t believe you never saw people who believe God exists and chose to live as if he didn’t. Its called sin. Sin is how we believe God exists and choose to live as though he does not.

To answer you second question, simply human weakness or love of self. The thing about sin is this, no matter how evil or bad it is, we always seem to get something out of it.

And rather it hurts us, or others, at the time we don’t care. This is something in it that we unfortunately grave.

 

[rinnie]

I don’t know how that is possible at all.

I cannot imagine what that would be like - to believe that God exists, and yet choose to live as if He didn’t exist.

Well, why do you Catholics do that??

Oh and the other reason is this, we cannot have God in our life if we choose to live in sin. You can’t have it both ways. When we choose to live our life in a state of mortal sin, we choose sin over God.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Nedless to say, blanket statements like yours from earlier and from another poster certainly are not the sort of statements that suggest the maker of those statements is open to actually discuss anything or that he cares about the people he supposedly talks about.

Just the opposite. The question is not whether we care about you, but why are you here if you do not care about yourself?

Are you just here to beat up on Catholics?

 

[Charlemagne_III]

The other poster said that God plays hide and seek. I asked him if he thinks God also plays gotcha.

I don’t think God plays gotcha, nor hide and seek.

It is God who plays hide and seek. It is the devil who plays “Gotcha!”

 

[rinnie]

Just the opposite. The question is not whether we care about you, but why are you here if you do not care about yourself?

Are you just here to beat up on Catholics?

But lets be honest we do care about him or her. Remember what Christ told us, if we only love those who love us, what is the reward in that?

 

[Lucy107]

Just the opposite. The question is not whether we care about you, but why are you here if you do not care about yourself?

And on goes the manipulation…

Are you just here to beat up on Catholics?

I can’t fathom the worldliness of some Catholics.
I don’t understand how someone can claim to believe in God, and yet behave as some people who claim to be Catholics do.

 

[rinnie]

And on goes the manipulation…

I can’t fathom the worldliness of some Catholics.
I don’t understand how someone can claim to believe in God, and yet behave as some people who claim to be Catholics do.

Because we are all human Lucy. I know as a Catholic there are times I know if I were to meet God face to face he would say to me, you are a disgrace to me.

Being Catholic does not make us any less human.

 

[Bahman]

Proof that you can believe that he exists, but refuse to accept and follow him would be Satan.

We need to prove what we believe is not work of Satan. Very strange situation! Satan apparently is the genius hence how we could beat him and realize the truth?

Not that people can refuse to believe in the devil either. People have free will to believe and live the way they want.

Well, we need to define evil first.

The biggest lie the devil ever pulled over the world was to get people to deny he exists. That’s his number one weapon.

In fact that the teaching of church which denies the existence of pure evil.

 

[Lucy107]

It is God who plays hide and seek.

God plays hide and seek??

To answer your first question, simple, follow what works for you, forget who you hurt, forget right or wrong, have no morals. Only love of self. Forget what he teaches, and do what you want. It happens all the time. Do you have a TV? Did you ever watch the news. I can’t believe you never saw people who believe God exists and chose to live as if he didn’t. Its called sin. Sin is how we believe God exists and choose to live as though he does not.

Then your standards for what counts as “belief in God” are trivial.

Proof that you can believe that he exists, but refuse to accept and follow him would be Satan.

I really don’t buy the usual Satan doctrine.
I think Satan is God’s servant, per God’s command, and he has the unfortunate and thankless task to show people the extent of their own willingness to go against God.

Not that people can refuse to believe in the devil either. People have free will to believe and live the way they want.

That’s just crazy, or a cheap excuse. One cannot simply believe “whatever one wants.”

The biggest lie the devil ever pulled over the world was to get people to deny he exists. That’s his number one weapon.

I think that is quite a schizophrenic way to see things. Blaming things on Satan is a convenient excuse for not looking at one’s own willingness to sin.

 

[Lucy107]

Because we are all human Lucy. I know as a Catholic there are times I know if I were to meet God face to face he would say to me, you are a disgrace to me.

Being Catholic does not make us any less human.

Really??

 

[Charlemagne_III]

God plays hide and seek?

Yes, we run to hide our sins. He seeks to prove his love.

 

[Lucy107]

Yes, we run to hide our sins. He seeks to prove his love.

Who do you mean by “we”?

 

[Aloysium]

Who do you mean by “we”?

Are you suggesting

• you believe yourself to be sinless?
• that Charlie forgot about Mary?
• that some of us are not wicked?

Mankind has fallen by its own choice,
Sin is within us all.
Death is the consequence of sin.
Jesus is the cure.

. . . or is it the hiding (shame), the running away part?
We do run to sin; that’s the problem - it is in our nature.

Everything you have ever done will be known to all at the end of time. How does that feel?