The Fear of Hell

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Charlemagne_III said:
That is true for many naturalists. You can find some who are not entirely rank determinists. Atheists Ayn Rand and Jean Paul Sartre, for example, asserted free will. But even the naturalist has to admit that when choices are made, they are most often made by the person making them, rather than by someone else. So the natural causes come from within and are not necessarily predetermined by exterior natural causes.
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We can safely ignore those who reject free will because they (supposedly) cannot think for themselves! In other words they don’t trust their own conclusions.:nunchuk:
 
oldcelt said:
Did you actually mean to ask the bolded question? That answer should be strikingly obvious.

Since I am not at naturalist I can’t speak for them.

The last paragraph simply demonstrates the weakness of your argument…either heaven or hell equals free will…I think not.

Cremation, being eaten by other animals…what will it matter? If our energy cannot maintain a coherent form post-death…it is all irrelevant. I’ll know nothing about it.

John
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What guarantee is there that our mental energy maintains a coherent form even here and now? :confused:
 
oldcelt said:
Did you actually mean to ask the bolded question? That answer should be strikingly obvious.

Since I am not at naturalist I can’t speak for them.

The last paragraph simply demonstrates the weakness of your argument…either heaven or hell equals free will…I think not.

Cremation, being eaten by other animals…what will it matter? If our energy cannot maintain a coherent form post-death…it is all irrelevant. I’ll know nothing about it.

John
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I don’t understand your reasoning, so I won’t answer this.

Must be having one of my dumb days. 😉
 
Well, firstly, we don’t know WHO ends up going to Hell. It could be only the most horrible of people ie-Hitler, John Gacy etc. Regular sinners who otherwise have good intentions are allowed to work themselves into a state of Grace in purgatory.

Many people have theorized that Hell may in fact be more a place of longing and sadness then a pure torture chamber. Where you are cut off from the source of happiness, God, through your own volition. It may very well be that there are not many souls in Hell at all.
 
As an aside, that G. K. Chesterton quote is simply not true. If there were no God, some people would invent one, or many, and some others would be atheists. This situation, of course, is what strong atheists believe is actually true or most likely true.
 
Nixbits said:
As an aside, that G. K. Chesterton quote is simply not true. If there were no God, some people would invent one, or many, and some others would be atheists. This situation, of course, is what strong atheists believe is actually true or most likely true.
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Well right, Chesterton liked to include a lot of humor in his writings. This was a bit of it I suspect. But of course he was of the opinion that God created the world, so of course that opinion that man would not exist without God would flow naturally. If you believe in God, that quote is true for you, if you do not, it is false. I’m sure he realized that it was not a strict syllogism meant for philosophical debate.
 
Nixbits said:
. . . If there were no God, some people would invent one, or many, and some others would be atheists. . .
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I really have no clue what atheists mean when they say there is no God.
According to what I mean by “God”, it is impossible that He could not exist.
Stretching my imagination, or perhaps seriously limiting it, I would say there would be no atheists because there would be no people, no world, no cosmos, not even nothing.
 
Charlemagne_III said:
Sometimes we hear unbelievers say they cannot respect the idea of a God who would prepare for us a place of everlasting suffering. Such a God is petty and vindictive. How would you answer this critique of the Christian hell? :confused:
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I have not read through all the notes but as someone has probably already said God does not send us to hell. We choose hell. Hell is a place without God. If we reject God and do not choose Him it is our choice. It is because of His love for us that he allows us to decide and does not force himself on us, though he is always calling us ever toward him. Yet it is our choice.

As St. Augustine said, “our hearts are restless until they rest in God”, we have a longing for love, goodness and God. We can choose to follow that longing and seek God or choose this world which is the rejection of God and all that is good.
 
Magdalena59 said:
I have not read through all the notes but as someone has probably already said God does not send us to hell. We choose hell. Hell is a place without God. If we reject God and do not choose Him it is our choice. It is because of His love for us that he allows us to decide and does not force himself on us, though he is always calling us ever toward him. Yet it is our choice.

As St. Augustine said, “our hearts are restless until they rest in God”, we have a longing for love, goodness and God. We can choose to follow that longing and seek God or choose this world which is the rejection of God and all that is good.
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So, we choose hell after being created by an omniscient and immutable creator? Doesn’t sound like there was much of a choice there.
 
oldcelt said:
So, we choose hell after being created by an omniscient and immutable creator? Doesn’t sound like there was much of a choice there.
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People don’t choose hell…they choose sin which the devil makes very attractive. By following the 10 Commandments and the teachings of Jesus, we can overcome the ‘wiles of the devil.’
 
truetofaith said:
People don’t choose hell…they choose sin which the devil makes very attractive. By following the 10 Commandments and the teachings of Jesus, we can overcome the ‘wiles of the devil.’
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You left out the omniscient and immutable creator. H knew when he created Satan what would happen.
 
Charlemagne_III said:
Still waiting for you to write a paragraph. 😃
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“This business is well ended.
My liege, and madam, to expostulate
What majesty should be, what duty is,
Why day is day, night night, and time is time,
Were nothing but to waste night, day and time.
**Therefore, since brevity is the soul of wit,
And tediousness the limbs and outward flourishes,
I will be brief: **your noble son is mad:
Mad call I it; for, to define true madness,
What is’t but to be nothing else but mad?
But let that go.”

Polonius from Hamlet
 
oldcelt said:
“This business is well ended.
My liege, and madam, to expostulate
What majesty should be, what duty is,
Why day is day, night night, and time is time,
Were nothing but to waste night, day and time.
**Therefore, since brevity is the soul of wit,
And tediousness the limbs and outward flourishes,
I will be brief: **your noble son is mad:
Mad call I it; for, to define true madness,
What is’t but to be nothing else but mad?
But let that go.”

Polonius from Hamlet
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You were asked to write a paragraph, not quote one. 😉

There can be brevity in a paragraph too. Try to get beyond one or two sentences? 🤷
 
oldcelt said:
You left out the omniscient and immutable creator. H knew when he created Satan what would happen.
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Same with Adam & Eve…so if He said forget it…there would be many saints who would never have the ability to get to heaven.

Satan will get his punishment.
 
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