The Forbidden Subject: The Ordination of Women

[reggieM]

not true, in closed convents women in some orders served in roles as servers even in the Tridentine and Greek Liturgies.

True. The liturgical rule against women serving in the sanctuary was never an absolute thing. But exceptions needed reasonable grounds - as in convents that were closed to men.

 

[IWantGod]

No it doesn’t. Frankly it annoys me and saddens me as to just how little Church history and Catholic theology people have even been exposed to.

As I have said a zillioin times:
Show me a successful priest and I will show you an army of women doin the heavy lifting.
And not for the glory, the prospect of being revered or to be noticed.
For the simple love of God and His Church on earth.

We women who work hard in the church are baffled by this assumption that we are less.
Priests are priests. I am not. God knows the difference, and so do I.
I do not need to be ordained. I have a role. It’s not confect the Eucharist or Sacraments. That’s fine by me. I will help my priest to do his job in any way he needs though.

God bless our priests.

So the Job of women is to mother the priest just as Mary mothered Jesus?

Why can’t women be priests?

 

[IWantGod]

I think the reason why people are offended is because women historically have been reduced to nothing but breeders and mothers and household servants and cooks, and are seen as having little value else where in life. Even in the time that Jesus walked the earth a women’s word had little to no value. Even in the book of genesis eve is presented as gullible, deceptive, weak and essentially the root cause of all the sin in this world.

Thus its not unreasonable to think that an all male priesthood is simply a continuation of an ancient prejudice against women.

Maybe Jesus chose men at that time because he knew that men were far too ignorant, arrogant and prejudice to accept a woman as having the authority of a priest.

That seems like a likely scenario to me. I see no other reason why God would not consider a women as a priest.

 

[Thom18]

I think the reason why people are offended is because women historically have been reduced to nothing but breeders and mothers and household servants and cooks, and are seen as having little value else where in life. Even in the time that Jesus walked the earth a women word had no value. Even in the book of genesis eve is presented as gullible and deceptive.

Thus its not unreasonable to think that an all male priesthood is simply a continuation of prejudice against women.

Jesus himself gave us an example for the all male priesthood: all of His apostles were men, and only to men did He give the power to forgive sins, offer the Eucharist, ordain, etc. This was following in the steps of the all male priesthood of the Old Testament. If Jesus wished to open up the priesthood to women, He would have said or done something that left that possibility, but He didn’t.

 

[pensmama87]

I think the reason why people are offended is because women historically have been reduced to nothing but breeders and mothers and household servants and cooks, and are seen as having little value else where in life. Even in the time that Jesus walked the earth a women’s word had little to no value. Even in the book of genesis eve is presented as gullible, deceptive, weak and essentially the root cause of all the sin in this world.

Thus its not unreasonable to think that an all male priesthood is simply a continuation of an ancient prejudice against women.

Maybe Jesus chose men at that time because he knew that men were far too ignorant, arrogant and prejudice to accept a woman as having the authority of a priest.

That seems like a likely scenario to me. I see no other reason why God would not consider a women as a priest.

This is a highly over simplified view of history.

 

[Ontheway]

I think the reason why people are offended is because women historically have been reduced to nothing but breeders and mothers and household servants and cooks, and are seen as having little value else where in life. Even in the time that Jesus walked the earth a women’s word had little to no value. Even in the book of genesis eve is presented as gullible, deceptive, weak and essentially the root cause of all the sin in this world.

Thus its not unreasonable to think that an all male priesthood is simply a continuation of an ancient prejudice against women.

Maybe Jesus chose men at that time because he knew that men were far too ignorant, arrogant and prejudice to accept a woman as having the authority of a priest.

That seems like a likely scenario to me. I see no other reason why God would not consider a women as a priest.

Maybe the attitude expressed in your statement above is the reason?

 

[MaryT777]

Jesus himself gave us an example for the all male priesthood: all of His apostles were men, and only to men did He give the power to forgive sins, offer the Eucharist, ordain, etc. This was following in the steps of the all male priesthood of the Old Testament. If Jesus wished to open up the priesthood to women, He would have said or done something that left that possibility, but He didn’t.

Yes, it’s that simple folks.

Well said.

 

[IWantGod]

Jesus himself gave us an example for the all male priesthood: all of His apostles were men, and only to men did He give the power to forgive sins, offer the Eucharist, ordain, etc. This was following in the steps of the all male priesthood of the Old Testament. If Jesus wished to open up the priesthood to women, He would have said or done something that left that possibility, but He didn’t.

God: Who should i use as priests?

Adam: That woman you created is not very intelligent, i will never respect them as a priest. Woman is for cleaning and baby.

God: Well i guess i’m gonna have to use men.

 

[GEddie]

God: Who should i use as priests?

Adam: That woman you created is not very intelligent, i will never respect them as a priest. Woman is for cleaning and baby.

God: Well i guess i’m gonna have to use men.

WHy would God ask Adam for guidance?

That makes no sense.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Thom18]

God: Who should i use as priests?

Adam: That woman you created is not very intelligent, i will never respect them as a priest. Woman is for cleaning and baby.

God: Well i guess i’m gonna have to use men.

Who is suggesting that? Certainly not myself, and I haven’t seen anyone else giving off that sort of impression. I’m merely pointing out that God only allowed males (and of a certain tribe) to be His priests in the Old Testament, and that Jesus only gave priestly duties to men as well. I never mentioned intelligence or respect, or cleaning or birthing.

Why are you suggesting that, unless one is a priest, all they can do is clean and have children?

 

[Brendan_64]

Why can’t women be priests?

Why can’t men give birth?

Women cannot be priests, Pope St John Paul II settled this in Ordinatio Saverdotalis. Read it.

A woman cannot act in Persona Christi because she doesn’t share his male human nature.

 

[IWantGod]

Why can’t men give birth?

Women cannot be priests, Pope St John Paul II settled this in Ordinatio Saverdotalis. Read it.

A woman cannot act in Persona Christi because she doesn’t share his male human nature.

Its a mans world. Its a mans world. but it’d be nothing, nothing, nothinggggg, with out a women or a girl.

Thats what James brown said.

 

[Brendan_64]

Its a mans world. Its a mans world. but it’d be nothing, nothing, nothinggggg, with out a women or a girl.

Thats what James brown said.

James Brown or St Pope John Paul II, who shall we turn to on this issue?

However without the loving, selfless obedience of Mary to God’s request to bear His only begotten son, humanity may well not have been saved.

 

[simpleas]

such as?

not true, in closed convents women in some orders served in roles as servers even in the Tridentine and Greek Liturgies.

Deaconess still exist in some form.
all or nothing? If you don’t like the meal I prepared, your only option is to starve?

Here is a few examples from previous rules etc :

“Consecrated women are forbidden to touch the sacred vessels and altar cloths and to carry incense round the altar”.
Wherefore (Pope) Soter =a forged letter in the ‘False Decretals’] wrote to the bishops of Italy: “It has come to the notice of the apostolic See that consecrated women or nuns among you touch sacred vessels or palls and carry incense round the alter. No one in his senses doubts that this behaviour deserves condemnation and correction. Therefore we command you on the basis on the authority of this Holy See, that you put an end to this behaviour thoroughly and as soon as possible. And in order that this kind of plague will not proliferate further in other provinces, we order that the practice be discontinued as soon as possible”.

Decretum Gratiani Distinction 23, Chapter 25. Corpus Juris Canonici, edited by A.Friedberg, Leipzig 1879-1881; reprint Graz 1955; vol. 1, col. 85.

“Sacred Vessels may only be handled by consecrated men.”
“The Holy See decrees that the consecrated vessels may be handled only by holy men (males) ordained to the Lord’s service and by no others, in order that the Lord in his anger may not punish his people with calamity, in which those who have not sinned [against this commandment] may be also destroyed, since it often happens that the righteous suffer for the ungodly.”
<For it is highly unbecoming that any sacred vessels of the Lord would serve human needs or would be touched by others than by men (males) who stand in the Lord’s service and have been consecrated to him.> (=addition in the official Editio Romana declared the authentic edition by Pope Gregory XIII in 1580 AD).

Decretum Gratiani Section III, Distinction 1 de cons., Chapter 41. Corpus Juris Canonici, edited by A.Friedberg, Leipzig 1879-1881; reprint Graz 1955; vol. 1, col. 1304-1305.

It is interesting to know that women are not considered valid matter when it comes to the priesthood.

 

[simpleas]

Why can’t men give birth?

Women cannot be priests, Pope St John Paul II settled this in Ordinatio Saverdotalis. Read it.

A woman cannot act in Persona Christi because she doesn’t share his male human nature.

Was Eve not taken out of Adam? Wouldn’t that me she shares his nature as does he share hers? They were not made separately according to Genesis.

 

[reggieM]

“Sacred Vessels may only be handled by consecrated men.”
“The Holy See decrees that the consecrated vessels may be handled only by holy men (males) ordained to the Lord’s service and by no others, in order that the Lord in his anger may not punish his people with calamity, in which those who have not sinned [against this commandment] may be also destroyed, since it often happens that the righteous suffer for the ungodly.”
<For it is highly unbecoming that any sacred vessels of the Lord would serve human needs or would be touched by others than by men (males) who stand in the Lord’s service and have been consecrated to him.> (=addition in the official Editio Romana declared the authentic edition by Pope Gregory XIII in 1580 AD).

Decretum Gratiani Section III, Distinction 1 de cons., Chapter 41. Corpus Juris Canonici, edited by A.Friedberg, Leipzig 1879-1881; reprint Graz 1955; vol. 1, col. 1304-1305.

Parishes where the EF Mass is offered still observe this. Notice, it speaks only of the ordained, so lay men are not permitted to touch the vessels either. That is, they must use gloves or a cloth to touch the vessels. It’s an act of reverence towards God and not a statement against women as such.

 

[pnewton]

So the Job of women is to mother the priest just as Mary mothered Jesus?

Why can’t women be priests?

Going back to the original article, the answer is because the priesthood is a Sacrament. The very nature of Sacraments is such that they must mirror that which they represent. Baptism must use water, not sand. The Eucharist must be bread, not brussel sprouts. The priesthood must be a man, not a woman.Man is no more a superior element over woman than bread is superior to any other food. It is simply what was used and is the symbol that ties best to Jesus, who was a man.

 

[Brendan_64]

Was Eve not taken out of Adam? Wouldn’t that me she shares his nature as does he share hers? They were not made separately according to Genesis.

This symbolises that man amd woman were created in a state of marriage. They are one in marriage.

And yes, they were created separately (in the Genesis 2 creation account). In Genesis 2, man was created first (namng all the animals etc) then created a woman to be one with him in flesh (ie in marriage).

It does not mean that there is essentially no difference between the sexes. God did not create androgynous humans. He created us male and female, as is clear in Genesis 1.

Christ was male, therefore a female cannot act in Persona Christi as she cannot be the male human person of Christ during the sacrament of the Eucharist.

This has been settled by Pope St John Paul II in Ordinatio Sacerdotalis. Female priests are an impossibility.

 

[simpleas]

Parishes where the EF Mass is offered still observe this. Notice, it speaks only of the ordained, so lay men are not permitted to touch the vessels either. That is, they must use gloves or a cloth to touch the vessels. It’s an act of reverence towards God and not a statement against women as such.

And what of this :

“Consecrated women are forbidden to touch the sacred vessels and altar cloths and to carry incense round the altar”.
Wherefore (Pope) Soter =a forged letter in the ‘False Decretals’] wrote to the bishops of Italy: “It has come to the notice of the apostolic See that consecrated women or nuns among you touch sacred vessels or palls and carry incense round the alter. No one in his senses doubts that this behaviour deserves condemnation and correction. Therefore we command you on the basis on the authority of this Holy See, that you put an end to this behaviour thoroughly and as soon as possible. And in order that this kind of plague will not proliferate further in other provinces, we order that the practice be discontinued as soon as possible”.

Decretum Gratiani Distinction 23, Chapter 25. Corpus Juris Canonici, edited by A.Friedberg, Leipzig 1879-1881; reprint Graz 1955; vol. 1, col. 85.

 

[simpleas]

This symbolises that man amd woman were created in a state of marriage. They are one in marriage.

And yes, they were created separately (in the Genesis 2 creation account). In Genesis 2, man was created first (namng all the animals etc) then created a woman to be one with him in flesh (ie in marriage).

It does not mean that there is essentially no difference between the sexes. God did not create androgynous humans. He created us male and female, as is clear in Genesis 1.

Christ was male, therefore a female cannot act in Persona Christi as she cannot be the male human person of Christ during the sacrament of the Eucharist.

This has been settled by Pope St John Paul II in Ordinatio Sacerdotalis. Female priests are an impossibility.

Ok, women are invalid matter…