The four Marian dogmas

[Mannyfit75]

You know what i find interesting…Protestants have a tradition too that they don’t like to look at…

Luther wrote on the Virginity of Mary:
It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

Calvin also up held the perpetual virginity of Mary, as did the Swiss reformer, Ulrich Zwingli (1484-1531), who wrote:

I firmly believe that Mary, according to the words of the gospel as a pure Virgin brought forth for us the Son of God and in childbirth and after childbirth forever remained a pure, intact Virgin. (Zwingli Opera, Corpus Reformatorum, Berlin, 1905, v. 1, p. 424.)

ewtn.com/faith/teachings/maryc2.htm
​

True but modern Protestants reject the idea which is sad.

 

[beckers]

Doesn’t sound like to me that the pope woke up and decided to make up something about Mary but that it was a belief held from early Christians.

Then they forgot to put it down in the most important source…the written Word of God. How could they be so silly as to forget to do such a vital thing as that?

And who told you that it was the word of GOD…

Yes that would be the one and only CATHOLIC CHURCH. If you accept that all the books that make it up are the word of God then you have accepted the authority of the catholic church and it’s proclamtions and teachings.

And by they way whoever said that the bible held all the facts? The bible doesn’t say that about itself…

“Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle” 2 Thessalonians 2:14

 

[beckers]

True but modern Protestants reject the idea which is sad.

I agree. I think the “oringal protestant fathers” would be shocked by what they see in today’s world. It’s like they threw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[beckers]

Purgatory ring a bell? The perpetual Virginity of Mary? The sinlessness of Mary? None are Scriptural. Challenge met. Have a good day.

Explain this versus then please…

18 Because Christ also died once for our sins, the just for the unjust: that he might offer us to God, being put to death indeed in the flesh, but enlivened in the spirit, 19 In which also coming he preached to those spirits that were in prison: Which had been some time incredulous, when they waited for the patience of God in the days of Noe, when the ark was a building: wherein a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water. 1 Peter 3:18-20

Why would he need to preach to those in prision? If they are dead and there are only two places (heaven and hell) then what is this place?

Have you even read this article on this web server?
catholic.com/library/Purgatory.asp

 

[Blue_Serenity]

Explain this versus then please…

18 Because Christ also died once for our sins, the just for the unjust: that he might offer us to God, being put to death indeed in the flesh, but enlivened in the spirit, 19 In which also coming he preached to those spirits that were in prison: Which had been some time incredulous, when they waited for the patience of God in the days of Noe, when the ark was a building: wherein a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water. 1 Peter 3:18-20

means state of sin and says nothing of a place between heaven and hell

 

[jmcrae]

means state of sin and says nothing of a place between heaven and hell

They were dead.

If they were in Hell, Jesus could not have preached to them; they would not have been able to hear Him.

If they were already in Heaven, then what did Jesus bother to die on the Cross for?

 

[hoosierdaddy]

And who told you that it was the word of GOD…

Yes that would be the one and only CATHOLIC CHURCH. If you accept that all the books that make it up are the word of God then you have accepted the authority of the catholic church and it’s proclamtions and teachings.

And by they way whoever said that the bible held all the facts? The bible doesn’t say that about itself…

“Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle” 2 Thessalonians 2:14

Actually a Pentecostal church, then a Brethren church, and then a Baptist church told me it was the Word of God. The Holy Spirit bore witness with it (so I guess it was God who really told me).

Wrong. The Catholic Church did not give me the Bible. The Prophets of old and the Apostles in the NT wrote it. You guys just argued for 400 years trying to decide which books were inspired. While you were at it you still added seven of them that weren’t. Good move.

PS the “traditions” in that verse were referring to unwritten (as of then) scripture. Eventually it was written down.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

then what did Jesus bother to die on the Cross for?

Funny you should say that JM. I said the same thing when discussing purgatory.

 

[jmcrae]

then what did Jesus bother to die on the Cross for?

Funny you should say that JM. I said the same thing when discussing purgatory.

Purgatory is the final cleansing with Christ’s blood, “as if through fire” as the Apostle Paul teaches us. Without Christ on the Cross, there could be no Purgatory.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Purgatory is the final cleansing with Christ’s blood, “as if through fire” as the Apostle Paul teaches us. Without Christ on the Cross, there could be no Purgatory.

With Christ on the Cross, there IS NO purgatory.

“as if through fire” is talking about the judgement of our WORKS, not of us. **Jesus took our judgement on our behalf. **This is the Gospel, here I stand.

 

[jmcrae]

The Catholic Church did not give me the Bible.

The Bible did not fall from the sky, printed and bound. It was Pope Damasus who first authorized the publication of Bibles, and it was Pope Innocent I who told us which books they should contain.

The Bibles given to you by modern-day churches got there via the Catholic Church. They didn’t get them from God; they got them from us. We got them from God, and then had them published and distributed around the world for you to copy and retranslate.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

These verses seem to confirm that there was no pit stop on the way to heaven
NT
Matthew 25:34,
Luke 16:22,
Luke 23:42-43,
John 14:2-3,
2 Corinthians 5:1-8,
1 Thessalonians 4:16-18,
Revelation 7:14-17

OT
Psalm 49:15, 73:24-25,
Isaiah 57:1-2,
Daniel 12:13,

 

[hoosierdaddy]

The Bible did not fall from the sky, printed and bound. It was Pope Damasus who first authorized the publication of Bibles, and it was Pope Innocent I who told us which books they should contain.

The Bibles given to you by modern-day churches got there via the Catholic Church. They didn’t get them from God; they got them from us. We got them from God, and then had them published and distributed around the world for you to copy and retranslate.

Retranslate?

The Bible was given to us by God, the prophets, and the apostles. It then took the Catholic Church 400 some odd years to decide which books were in there. They even put seven in that did not belong. I’m really quite sick of reading your proud statements that we “got them from you”. We got them from God. Are you aware that sometimes, some of you sound like you are a cult?

 

[hoosierdaddy]

These verses seem to confirm that there was no pit stop on the way to heaven
NT
Matthew 25:34,
Luke 16:22,
Luke 23:42-43,
John 14:2-3,
2 Corinthians 5:1-8,
1 Thessalonians 4:16-18,
Revelation 7:14-17

OT
Psalm 49:15, 73:24-25,
Isaiah 57:1-2,
Daniel 12:13,

Oh poop brother. You forgot to include references from “Tradition” and the seven extra “books” of Scripture. lol

 

[mikeledes]

Actually a Pentecostal church, then a Brethren church, and then a Baptist church told me it was the Word of God. The Holy Spirit bore witness with it (so I guess it was God who really told me).

Wrong. The Catholic Church did not give me the Bible. The Prophets of old and the Apostles in the NT wrote it. You guys just argued for 400 years trying to decide which books were inspired. While you were at it you still added seven of them that weren’t. Good move.

PS the “traditions” in that verse were referring to unwritten (as of then) scripture. Eventually it was written down.

You certainly agreed with the conclusion of our argument. It’s result was the New Testament canon you love, defend, and use. I guess you accept that the Catholic Church was right in that area? How are you so sure that the Epistle of Jude, for example, belongs in the Bible? A letter can be well written, contain truth, and even be written by an apostle, but that does not make it inspired.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[mikeledes]

Retranslate?

The Bible was given to us by God, the prophets, and the apostles. It then took the Catholic Church 400 some odd years to decide which books were in there. They even put seven in that did not belong. I’m really quite sick of reading your proud statements that we “got them from you”. We got them from God. Are you aware that sometimes, some of you sound like you are a cult?

They put seven books that didn’t belong? How are you so sure the Church didn’t do the same with the NT, adding books that were edifying but not inspired?

God Bless,
Michael

 

[hoosierdaddy]

You certainly agreed with the conclusion of our argument. It’s result was the New Testament canon you love, defend, and use. I guess you accept that the Catholic Church was right in that area? How are you so sure that the Epistle of Jude, for example, belongs in the Bible? A letter can be well written, contain truth, and even be written by an apostle, but that does not make it inspired.

God Bless,
Michael

Keep telling yourself that Michael. I know the books in Scripture are Scripture because GOD HIMSELF promised to protect and preserve His Word. It didn’t take a religious organization with “cult-like” qualities to do it. I say this because you guys try to use fear and falsehoods to try and bully us into your Church. You believe in the real Jesus so you aren’t a cult per se but you are still very scary. Bullying and religious beliefs have no business being in association with each other.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

They put seven books that didn’t belong? How are you so sure the Church didn’t do the same with the NT, adding books that were edifying but not inspired?

God Bless,
Michael

Those seven books contradict Scripture. They were written in a time period when there was NO REVELATION FROM GOD. I’m no professor but anyone can see this if they’re willing to.

 

[mikeledes]

These verses seem to confirm that there was no pit stop on the way to heaven
NT
Matthew 25:34,
Luke 16:22,
Luke 23:42-43,
John 14:2-3,
2 Corinthians 5:1-8,
1 Thessalonians 4:16-18,
Revelation 7:14-17

OT
Psalm 49:15, 73:24-25,
Isaiah 57:1-2,
Daniel 12:13,

These verses do not contradict the notion of purgatory. There are souls that go directly to heaven. All souls in purgatory go to heaven.

God Bless,
michael

 

[mikeledes]

Keep telling yourself that Michael. I know the books in Scripture are Scripture because GOD HIMSELF promised to protect and preserve His Word. It didn’t take a religious organization with “cult-like” qualities to do it. I say this because you guys try to use fear and falsehoods to try and bully us into your Church. You believe in the real Jesus so you aren’t a cult per se but you are still very scary. Bullying and religious beliefs have no business being in association with each other.

He also promised to protect and preserve His Church (Matthew 16:18-19). So explain the Protestant reformation to me? What, God did not keep his promise for over a millenia?

The only bullying here is when people cannot have a decent discussion without insults and being obnoxious.

God Bless,
Michael