M
MagdalenaRita
Guest
Very good point and true. I didn’t think of it that way.
- Status
M
Maximian
Guest
I noticed that in one of Michael Voris’s recent broadcasts against SSPX he plays a telephone call from a man who introduces himself as a “member of SSPX “ and goes on to complain that the SSPX persuaded his wife to divorce him.
Emeraldlady
New member
My guess is SSPX is using the Petrine privilege in order to rid the sect of ‘suppressive’ spouses to borrow a Scientology term. Petrine privilege means that the Church can dissolve a valid marriage if the spouse is acting to draw a person away from the faith.
Last edited:
M
Maximian
Guest
I think you should avoid this insulting term. That is no way to describe an organisation to which the Holy Father himself has granted permanent faculties of confession, and it is an insult to the Pope to speak like that as it impugns his judgement.
Also I think we should all refrain from making “guesses.”
Last edited:
A
Aulef
Guest
There is one good fruit.
Now we have a real life example of what happens when Tradition and Magisterium are broken so that the Church is, as Gaudium et Spes suggests, “able to adapt to the modern world”.
Now we have a real life example of what happens when Tradition and Magisterium are broken so that the Church is, as Gaudium et Spes suggests, “able to adapt to the modern world”.
M
Maximian
Guest
I thought that was primarily a fundraising exercise, needed because of the enormous cost of abuse settlements? Or is there more to it?
P
puer.dei
Guest
Evangelization as just a “fundraising exercise” – that’s a new one.
S
StudentMI
Guest
Am I the only Michigander tired of hearing about unleashing the Gospel?
S
stoplooklisten
Guest
The New evangelization / New evangelisation is more than that.
New evangelization - Wikipedia
C
commenter
Guest
Strictly speaking there are no Jesuit or Franciscan parishes, though we refer to such informally. Rather there are diocesan parishes (people still under the bishop Ordinary) entrusted to a religious order. The Friary is Franciscan, though even it is in union with the Ordinary.MagdalenaRita:
It’s a bizarre thing that people think that those who attend Mass said by a priest of the SSPX are “members of SSPX “. I often go to a Franciscan mass but nobody suggests Im a franciscan.
The SSPX is a society of priests. They have a few nuns too.
Chapels not in union with the Ordinary are in a totally different situation.
M
Maximian
Guest
That’s quite rude.
M
Maximian
Guest
I was not talking about evangelisation. I was talking about “Unleash the Gospel”
Last edited:
I
ioannes_pius
Guest
Are you aware that, in the very next sentence, Pope St. Paul VI said this?:
“But it [the Council] has invested its teachings with the authority of the supreme ordinary magisterium, which ordinary magisterium is so obviously authentic that it must be accepted with docility and sincerity by all the faithful, according to the mind of the Council as expressed in the nature and aims of the individual documents.”
M
Maximian
Guest
Yes. That’s the key phrase
S
Shasta-Rose
Guest
I agree with Orbis and JSRG. As a fairly recent convert, I think I would have had a problem converting and joining a church where I was assured I would sit and listen to a lot of “dead language gibberish” and not understand more than a word or two of it. As it is, I love going to Mass. I feel more like a welcomed participant than I would if I couldn’t understand most of what was going on. Now, you multiply that by how many other converts have joined in the last handful of years. We are there because what we hear and understand makes sense to us, and if the Church wants to keep getting converts, it just isn’t a draw to say, “You sit here, don’t understand most of it, and near the end you get the host and the precious blood, and after a few more incomprehensible words, you get up and leave.”
I think you have to give potential converts a reason to see why they should actually be there, and you can only do that in their own language. Just the perspective of someone who didn’t grow up steeped in Latin and Catholicism.
I think you have to give potential converts a reason to see why they should actually be there, and you can only do that in their own language. Just the perspective of someone who didn’t grow up steeped in Latin and Catholicism.
P
puer.dei
Guest
That still doesn’t explain why you denigrate it as “primarily a fundraising exercise, needed because of the enormous cost of abuse settlements.” What exactly, in this program, indicates that?
M
Maximian
Guest
If you consider the phenomenal success of Catholic missionaries before the vernacular was introduced, you will surely revise that view.
The power of the old Mass does not depend on the ability of the faithful to understand its words, though a translation is always there in the Missal. It speaks for itself. The new Mass is, undoubtedly, much more dependent on the people’s actual word for word comprehension, which becomes a problem if they are outside their own language zone.
Also, once you have learned the Latin ordinaries (the common parts - Kyrie, Gloria, Creed, sanctus, benedictus, Pater Noster and Agnus Dei - it isn’t actually very much, you rapidly catch onto the meaning.
P
pnewton
Guest
Emeraldlady
New member
Which is really the general experience that saw the vernacular begin.
“In most countries, the Tridentine Mass was celebrated only in Latin. However, there are exceptions. In early seventeenth century China, Jesuit missionaries secured permission from Pope Paul V to celebrate the Catholic Mass in Chinese, part of an effort to adapt their work to Chinese cultural norms and conditions. In Dalmatia and parts of Istria, the liturgy was celebrated in Church Slavonic, and authorization for use of this language was extended to some other Slavic regions between 1886 and 1935. There, “Tridentine Mass” was not synonymous with “Latin Mass”.” (1)
In the 19th century as missionary activity spread to aboriginal people in Africa, the South Pacific islands, Australia, New Zealand etc, Latin had no cultural meaning at all. In effect, it just diminished across the board in practical use. Not just in religious education but medicine, science. mathmatics, law. It’s right that it has some place of honour for posterity but not for general practical use today.
M
MagdalenaRita
Guest
Welcome to the Catholic church. It is good you are here. It is the best place to be.
Latin is a very big part of the Catholic faith even yet today and always will be as the Church even recently expressed that Latin should be retained and the laity should be learning some. One thing about it being a dead language is that the meaning of the words do not change or evolve as they do in other languages, so throughout time the interpretation is always the same.
You also may find that some of the parts of the Mass where ever you attend will be said or sung in Latin, even in the O.F. Mass. Most of the parishioners in the OF Mass where I attend and other parishes have come to know certain prayers and hymns in Latin, understand them and can sing them out very well.
Also, Catholic Missals for the EF will have Latin and English side by side, complete instructions for what is happening during the Mass, and most priests even if they read the Epistle and Gospels in Latin in the Mass will re-read them again in English during the homily, so there are many ways you definitely will be able to understand what is being said without much difficulty.
You can also purchase Missals for the OF Mass that have English/Latin side by side. It’s expensive but worth it. It helps to understand the language of the Catholic church.
I think that is a good point, except that the Church has never said that and I believe that, even if today the Church began speaking more Latin during Mass or however the Church should decide it needs to, converts and reverts (of which I am also) will come to the Church and stay in the Church because of truth and salvation.
God bless
Last edited:
- Status