The "Gay Gene": Does it Matter?

[Joe_5859]

The Church says no to activity, but doing so makes no sense…If we are to accept homosexuality as a natural condition, then acting upon this condition cannot be unnatural…The Church wants sex reserved for married peoples, but it refuses to marry a gay couple, so what are gays to do?

I don’t think the Church refers to it as a “natural condition”. But even if it did, you could also say that sexual attraction between heterosexual people is a “natural condition.” This doesn’t mean that people are therefore allowed to act on that impulse indiscriminately. There are still moral laws that we are to follow. We are called to exercise self-control.

From a Christian point of view, our “natural condition” is tainted by Original Sin. This means that we will feel an inclination to do things that we ought not to do.

Some people are also born more hot-tempered than others. Does their “natural condition” excuse them if they decide to act on it and beat their spouse or children? Absolutely not.

I do empathize with those who suffer from SSA. I can only imagine what it would be like. I have a friend who was very entrenched in the gay subculture for many years and it brought him much pain. Now that he has come to the Church, he is living a celibate life and is much, much happier. Not that it isn’t hard, but he’s much happier now than he was before because now he relies on the Lord.

 

[pathia]

Remember, God loves you more than any human can.

If he loves me why would he forbid me from marrying who I love? That is cruelty not love. Any number of other churches would marry me, even the most conservative states in the US would marry me, even those with the biblical definition of marriage in their constitution. Only the catholic church says no.

 

[buffalo]

If he loves me why would he forbid me from marrying who I love? That is cruelty not love. Any number of other churches would marry me, even the most conservative states in the US would marry me, even those with the biblical definition of marriage in their constitution. Only the catholic church says no.

You are looking at this through our own human lens. It is hard to understand and deal with.

Try to look at it as a parent. You know that something is not good for your kids and you warn them about it. Many times they don’t yet understand and rebel.

 

[pathia]

You are looking at this through our own human lens. It is hard to understand and deal with.

Try to look at it as a parent. You know that something is not good for your kids and you warn them about it. Many times they don’t yet understand and rebel.

That’s just even more cruel. I am sterile. I cannot have children and of course I can’t easily adopt until I get married, which is not allowed.

 

[buffalo]

That’s just even more cruel. I am sterile. I cannot have children and of course I can’t easily adopt until I get married, which is not allowed.

Perhpas I didn’t understand your post.

 

[pathia]

Perhpas I didn’t understand your post.

I had a confusing birth. Eventually they settled on some surgical clarification that left me impotent and nonfunctioning but visually distinctive in gender.

Once I was kicked out by my parents I had additional surgery to remove my impotence as a woman. My birth certificate and baptismal papers now disagree. I am legally female, however the church has me in its records as male so considers me to have SSA yet I do not.

 

[davidv]

I had a confusing birth. Eventually they settled on some surgical clarification that left me impotent and nonfunctioning but visually distinctive in gender.

Once I was kicked out by my parents I had additional surgery to remove my impotence as a woman. My birth certificate and baptismal papers now disagree. I am legally female, however the church has me in its records as male so considers me to have SSA yet I do not.

Why would the mix-up, in documents, label you with SSA? And, how is SSA an impediment to marriage?

 

[buffalo]

I had a confusing birth. Eventually they settled on some surgical clarification that left me impotent and nonfunctioning but visually distinctive in gender.

Once I was kicked out by my parents I had additional surgery to remove my impotence as a woman. My birth certificate and baptismal papers now disagree. I am legally female, however the church has me in its records as male so considers me to have SSA yet I do not.

So then what is the issue. The Church’s records?

 

[pathia]

So then what is the issue. The Church’s records?

Yes, the refuse to alter baptismal records to reflect my actual identity.

 

[LittleDeb]

Yes, the refuse to alter baptismal records to reflect my actual identity.

Hi Pathia,
My heart, once again, goes out to you. I want to thank you for remaining here on CAF to be a voice for others in your circumstance. Please understand that the Church has to move exceptionally slow on these very deep, delicate matters. For the Church to remain “free from error” a struggle such as yours has to be examined from every angle.

A century ago the medical advances didn’t exist to correct the inter-sexed condition. All inter-sexed were called to celibate chastity. Let’s take for example the topic of this thread, genetics. If there is a genetic cause for your inter-sexed condition does it change that you, in fact, have the condition? What about the person who is not actually inter-sexed but instead has had a traumatic life that has led him or her to believe he or she is inter-sexed? How does the Church discern the difference between them and you?

Just because medical science has advanced to the point to make men appear as women, it doesn’t change the very soul of the person. Has the Church (or anyone for that matter) been able to design a “what is the sex of the soul” test? Marriage is only possible between a man and a woman. I know you agree with that. We know that marriage is not just a biological uniting of complementary bodies (though that is necessary) but it is also a uniting of complementary souls.

I am on your side in this. I do believe that there are some people with your condition. I also believe there are some people who erroneously believe they are “women trapped in a man’s body.” I completely support medical correction for the inter-sexed to match their biology with their soul. But, I am also very insulted that there are men out there who believe they can be a woman with a lot of surgery and adapting female affectations.

That is what the Church is facing, discernment of the sex of the soul. She must discern the sex of a soul to ensure complementarity. Without complementarity, there is no marriage. It doesn’t matter if pastor Bob wants to say the words, he doesn’t join them, God does. We are a perfect complementary design from God. His design is flawless.

Why are you, personally, called where you are? I don’t know. I hope it is to help others like you. Your sterility is one of the things that has given you credibility with me. Men who have fathered children don’t hold much water with me when they claim to be “in the wrong body.” Also, same sex attraction people who “discover they knew they were gay all along” also don’t impress me. I didn’t know I was opposite sex attracted until I was about 6-8 years old. Why do they “get” to know so much earlier?

Long story short (oops too late once again) is that it isn’t just about biology. It is always about the soul first and foremost. I can’t prove that my soul is female any easier than you can. My biology is female and I am opposite sex attracted. I have no idea why I, personally, was called to marriage. I am certainly no expert at it. But the Church is the Bride of Christ. I have to trust her that she knows what marriage is and follow her lead.

 

[TShawn]

Lil Deb–

You should not speak on matters concerning Transexuals as you did regarding men who feel “trapped in the wrong body.” With sincere respect, I find you ignorant on the topic as a female who is “trapped in the wrong body”. I find your statements insulting to me personally. - Tshawn

 

[blessedtoo]

Lil Deb–

You should not speak on matters concerning Transexuals as you did regarding men who feel “trapped in the wrong body.” With sincere respect, I find you ignorant on the topic as a female who is “trapped in the wrong body”. I find your statements insulting to me personally. - Tshawn

With respect, she was not speaking on the issue of transexuals at all. She was speaking to pathia’s particular case. This thread is not about either one of these issues.

 

[DanteAlighieri]

Having not read the entire thread, I will nonetheless answer the OP:

It certainly does not matter.

Possibility 1: There is No Gay Gene

If this is the case, and SSA is entirely the result of choice and/or environment, then it is incumbent on those who experience it to subdue it in order to conform to the moral law.

Possibility 2: There is a Gay Gene

If this is the case, and there is a genetic predisposition to SSA, one still must subdue it in order to conform to the moral law – just as one with a genetic predisposition to alcoholism or addiction must, or one with a genetic predisposition to severe depression must.

A genetic predisposition does not remove our free will. It also does not illustrate an acceptability of the predisposed behavior. While it may cause all sorts of difficulties for one who strives to live morally, ultimately one must accept the cross one has been given and carry it – not succumb to it.

One can also take hope from remembering that even the Almighty Son of God fell under the weight of His own cross – three times. Even if we fall – even if our crosses are so unbearably heavy that they bear down on us every minute of every day – we can still get back up with His help.

Peace,
Dante

 

[LittleDeb]

Lil Deb–

You should not speak on matters concerning Transexuals as you did regarding men who feel “trapped in the wrong body.” With sincere respect, I find you ignorant on the topic as a female who is “trapped in the wrong body”. I find your statements insulting to me personally. - Tshawn

Blessedtoo is correct, I wasn’t speaking on transsexuals. I was giving the example as the difference between a genetic/biological problem vs. merely someone who asserts something without foundation. Just because someone (anyone) makes an assertion, it doesn’t make it so. And even if someone’s claim is currently backed by science, it doesn’t change the Truth. Science has been wrong before and will be wrong again. Truth is unchanging. I firmly believe that there are people whose biology doesn’t match their sex. I also believe that there might be a genetic predisposition to SSA. And there are people out there who claim to have these genetic disorders, yet they don’t.

But the whole topic of the thread is that a genetic cause for SSA doesn’t change anything. Regardless of the reason for SSA, it doesn’t change the definition of marriage. It also doesn’t change God’s perfect design.

Our development can sometimes be turned from God’s perfect design. I have endometriosis. It probably has a genetic factor in development. That wouldn’t make it moral for me to have invitro-fertilization just because I struggle with fertility. There is one way to make a baby and my genetics don’t change that.

There are those who propose a change in the definition of marriage by saying that it is not a unity of complementary bodies and souls. There are those who say that God makes more than two sexes. They argue that God designed it that way. Their assertions do not change Truth.

I’m sorry you found my wording insulting. That was not my intent. Please let me know how to word it more correctly. My exact wording is below. Please note the bolded words.

I am on your side in this. I do believe that there are some people with your condition. I also believe there are some people who erroneously believe they are “women trapped in a man’s body.” I completely support medical correction for the inter-sexed to match their biology with their soul. But, I am also very insulted that there are men out there who believe they can be a woman with a lot of surgery and adapting female affectations.

May God bless you in your commitment to chastity.

 

[justinthemartyr]

since the “gay gene” does not exist, it therefore does not matter.
There is no “it” to matter.

 

[MdntDrmr]

Not to get off subject, but I did find some websites that support the gay gene and the reason they are searching so hard seems to be to help people who want to change it. I mean, would it help if there was some pill or surgery that made this person straight?

***“I am 99.5% certain that homosexuality is genetic.” ***Was what one researcher said!

Here are the links that say YES, the gay gene does exist for all those that say there is no research to prove it. Do not speak before you check what you say. This is how so many people get misjudged by so many. Besides, according to the Bible I read, I am not here to judge, I just interpret what I can and go with how I interpret it. But, I do not see why any person would CHOOSE to be homosexual. They are beat, hurt, cursed, and even killed for being homosexual.

http://www.skeptictank.org/gaygene.htm

mission.org/jesuspeople/thegaygene.htm

This is excellent; it explains that the “Gay Gene” actually comes from the mothers. It shows that when they check, the gene is passed from the mother and it is exact.

Survival of genetic homosexual traits explained

Genetic factors that contribute to male homosexuality may produce "hyper-heterosexuality" in women, creating more babies

www.newscientist.com

These are just three of over 5000+ articles that came up. I also have a Doctorate Recipient that write a huge paper on how God did create some people this way and how it has been happening for years……so on and so on, but the main point that I found in the paper was that, when the Bible was written, they said man, and when they said man, it only referred to a married person or a male that did manly work. This would leave feminine males out. They did not call them men. Therefore when it is said, let no man lay with man as he does with a woman, or however it is said, it has been distorted so much. This means let no two married men or two physical men, such as carpenters, other ….males and I can’t think of the word that is used. I will look this up and post what I can if I find it.

I hope this does not offend anyone. I just want WORLD PEACE and everyone to get along.

 

[blessedtoo]

Here are the links that say YES, the gay gene does exist for all those that say there is no research to prove it. Do not speak before you check what you say. This is how so many people get misjudged by so many. Besides, according to the Bible I read, I am not here to judge, I just interpret what I can and go with how I interpret it. But, I do not see why any person would CHOOSE to be homosexual. They are beat, hurt, cursed, and even killed for being homosexual.

http://www.skeptictank.org/gaygene.htm

First, this link does not work.
Second, there is no “judging” here and we as Catholics do not just go by how “we” individually interpret the Bible. We have Tradition and Scripture as well as the Magesterium to help us with discernment.
Third, you are accusing others of not doing their research so I challenge you to back up the claim that homosexuals, as a group, are “beat, hurt, curse and killed” for being homosexual.

mission.org/jesuspeople/thegaygene.htm
This is excellent; it explains that the “Gay Gene” actually comes from the mothers. It shows that when they check, the gene is passed from the mother and it is exact.

Did you read the whole article? He explicity asserts that there is no such thing as a “gay gene” and spends pages explaining how the political activism of special interest groups has inhibited authentic study. Here is an excerpt:

What about all the evidence that shows that homosexuality "is genetic”?
There is not any, and none of the research itself claims there is; only the press and, sadly, certain researchers do—when speaking in sound bites to the public.
Science is being seriously obstructed in its effort to answer that questions. If we were allowed—encouraged—to answer it, we would soon develop better ideas on what homosexuality is and how to change, or better, prevent it. We would know who was at greater risk for becoming homosexual and what environments—family or societal—foster it. As one prominent gay activist researcher implied, all genetic things being equal, it is a whole lot easier to become “gay” in New York than in Utah. So who do you think would benefit most from that kind of research?

This is actually an excellent article to counter the “gay gene” argument.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn6519-survival-of-genetic-homosexual-traits-explained.html

This link doesn’t work either.

These are just three of over 5000+ articles that came up.

Did you read all 5,000 the same way you read the above? Just because there is a plethora of research does not mean the conclusions are what you seem to want to assert. I could also research the opposing view and present as many articles. The question in this thread is “does it matter?”. The answer is no.

I also have a Doctorate Recipient that write a huge paper on how God did create some people this way and how it has been happening for years……

so on and so on, but the main point that I found in the paper was that, when the Bible was written, they said man, and when they said man, it only referred to a married person or a male that did manly work. This would leave feminine males out. They did not call them men. Therefore when it is said, let no man lay with man as he does with a woman, or however it is said, it has been distorted so much. This means let no two married men or two physical men, such as carpenters, other ….males and I can’t think of the word that is used. I will look this up and post what I can if I find it.

Well, you completely lost me here.

I hope this does not offend anyone. I just want WORLD PEACE and everyone to get along.

At any cost?

 

[MdntDrmr]

First of all those links work fine. Just cut them and paste them in your browser and there they are. Secondly, it does matter because, if it didn’t, we would not be discussing it.

 

[MdntDrmr]

back up the claim that homosexuals, as a group, are “beat, hurt, curse and killed” for being homosexual.

Do I need to go further than the name Matthew Sheppard? Sean Kennedy? Those are just two that can be named off the top of my head that have gained national attention.

 

[buffalo]

Not to get off subject, but I did find some websites that support the gay gene and the reason they are searching so hard seems to be to help people who want to change it. I mean, would it help if there was some pill or surgery that made this person straight?

***“I am 99.5% certain that homosexuality is genetic.” ***Was what one researcher said!

Here are the links that say YES, the gay gene does exist for all those that say there is no research to prove it. Do not speak before you check what you say. This is how so many people get misjudged by so many. Besides, according to the Bible I read, I am not here to judge, I just interpret what I can and go with how I interpret it. But, I do not see why any person would CHOOSE to be homosexual. They are beat, hurt, cursed, and even killed for being homosexual.

http://www.skeptictank.org/gaygene.htm

mission.org/jesuspeople/thegaygene.htm

This is excellent; it explains that the “Gay Gene” actually comes from the mothers. It shows that when they check, the gene is passed from the mother and it is exact.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn6519-survival-of-genetic-homosexual-traits-explained.html

These are just three of over 5000+ articles that came up. I also have a Doctorate Recipient that write a huge paper on how God did create some people this way and how it has been happening for years……so on and so on, but the main point that I found in the paper was that, when the Bible was written, they said man, and when they said man, it only referred to a married person or a male that did manly work. This would leave feminine males out. They did not call them men. Therefore when it is said, let no man lay with man as he does with a woman, or however it is said, it has been distorted so much. This means let no two married men or two physical men, such as carpenters, other ….males and I can’t think of the word that is used. I will look this up and post what I can if I find it.

I hope this does not offend anyone. I just want WORLD PEACE and everyone to get along.

If its genetic you can bet that someone will find a cure. As soon as that cure comes out will those afflicted seek it out?