The hypocrites in the Catholic Church

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Liberalsaved said:
***“As long as they can find something to continually, eternally blame for the issues in their own sector, while at the same time being a culprit that is totally unverifiable, they can continue to push the blame off on a non-existant villain.”
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Let’s face it, if we were to somehow eliminate such logical fallacies as “strawmen”, “red herrings” and “a priori reasoning” from these forums, we would lose more than half the volume of purported rational content and argumentation. :rolleyes:
 
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shs-aod:
Let’s face it, if we were to somehow eliminate such logical fallacies as “strawmen”, “red herrings” and “a priori reasoning” from these forums, we would lose more than half the volume of purported rational content and argumentation. :rolleyes:
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I tried rational argument and got called fascist.
 
Liberalsaved said:
"I tried rational argument and got called fascist."
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That’s all? 😉

Maybe you, Frommi and I should go over to the “Free Republic” Religion Forum and harden our sensibilities a bit more… :cool:
 
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shs-aod:
That’s all? 😉

Maybe you, Frommi and I should go over to the “Free Republic” Religion Forum and harden our sensibilities a bit more… :cool:
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I know not this Free Republic. Explain, please.
 
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josephdavid:
Start with www.reformation.com

Also new studies show approximately thousands or children are abused sexually in public schools each year.
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I don’t quite get why that is such an important thing to keep posting. Does that somehow diminish the Catholic Church’s culpability?
 
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Liberalsaved:
Of course, it isn’t at all corrupt burecracy covering up for sexual predators and knowing what they are doing.

I find it entirely truthful that most priests are good people. However, a lot of this board can’t handle the fact that some are very bad people.
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I have to ask, are you a Catholic? Do you truly support the Catholic Church and its teachings? If you answered yes to each of these questions, you may want to remember what happened in Scripture with Judas. Jesus appointed him as one of his disciples. But Judas was a phony, crook, corrupt, etc. What if people throughout the ages only focused on what Judas did to Jesus and judged Christianity by what he did and not what Christ did? I see a striking correlation here between the abuse scandal and what Judas did to Christ. I talked to a good priest recently who said he can’t go out in public with his collar on when he takes his nieces and nephews out for lunch for fear of what might be done or said about him. But you continue to focus on these bad priests when good ones suffer as a result of this…but I guess that is typical and expected of you after reading through your posts.
 
Goldy said:
“But you continue to focus on these bad priests when good ones suffer as a result of this, but I guess that is typical and expected of you after reading through your posts.”
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Admittedly, some of us have a difficulty overlooking the fact that thus far the Church in the United States has paid out close to a billion dollars in legal costs and settlements with victims. And this doesn’t take into account the large sums of money lost through embezzlement and fraud by some members of the clergy.

And the crisis is far from over. What can we expect to come out of the Archdiocese of Los Angeles in terms of further monetary settlements and expenditures? Some speculate that it may be far worse than what has already transpired in Boston and Covington.

It’s really hard not to lose focus.
 
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snoopy:
I don’t quite get why that is such an important thing to keep posting. Does that somehow diminish the Catholic Church’s culpability?
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No, but it does point out that the problem is not limited to Catholic priests as the media seem to want us to believe.
 
I worked as a Victims Advocate until a few months ago, I did it for over 10 years. The busiest unit in our DA’s office was the Crimes Against Children Unit… We had a few kids that where a molested by priest… I can tell you that Catholics are more angry about this then the general public. But, It has to be put in perspective if things are going to change. IT IS NOT A CATHOLIC CHURCH PROBLEM, IT IS A SOCIETAL PROBLEM… Until people get this in their heads it won’t change. Do you realize that children are in more harms way with their FAMILIES than their priest! I would say even with their mothers. I could make you heads spin telling you some of the things I have seen. These priest aren’t the Church.
 
“The smoke of Satan has entered the Church”, Pope Paul VI. He was right. The hypocrites in the Church are those who deny the fact that Jesus is God.
 
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Liberalsaved:
I disagree that this is a false dilemma. I think you fail to mention that [some] Catholics are in the habit of spreading false information about all those groups.
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Official bodies of the Catholic Church? No. As for spreading false information: anti-Catholicism is the last acceptable prejudice in our society. It is rampant and vicious. Why do you think we have the Catholic League or the Catholic Civil Rights League?
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Liberalsaved:
I never defended those groups as perfect.
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I do not understand the relevance of this statement. Please clarify.
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Liberalsaved:
But the fact is that even among a general populace whose favorite thing to do is not take responsibility, Catholics, and I base all this on experience, are high, albeit not highest (politicians are highest) on the list of people who like to play the blame game without ever looking inward.
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This is no more than prejudice.
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Liberalsaved:
The fact remains Homsoexuals do not want to distabilize the family and the Church and force decadence on the populace.
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You say it is a fact. I say it is debatable.
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Liberalsaved:
Liberals do not want everyone to be able to get drive-through abortions or abolish the name of God from the public sector.
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Look at their voting record in parliament and tell me that.
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Liberalsaved:
These and so many other conspiracy theories, for that is what they are
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Actually they are not. A conspiracy theory posits not much evidence, not much logical argumentation, and blames some secret organization. The Catholic Church is not involved in this kind of nonsense in spite of the strawmen you are attempting to build.
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Liberalsaved:
save people from having to solve the internal problem.
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If you believe that the Catholic Church is devoid of people struggling to solve internal problems, then you are just plain looking at the wrong Church.
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Liberalsaved:
As long as they can find something to continually, eternally blame for the issues in their own sector, while at the same time being a culprit that is totally unverifiable, they can continue to push the blame off on a non-existant villain.
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Looks like you have described your own position quite well.

By the way this is a Catholic forum and this is one of the rules of this forum:
Non-Catholics are welcome to participate but must be respectful of the faith of the Catholics participating on the board.
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Hmmmm so I suppose non-catholic is now defined by not whether you are a member of the Church but whether you agree with the majority.

Oddly enough I’d say such attitudes are pushing me toward calling it quits. Not the desired effect, I’d imagine.
 
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Liberalsaved:
Hmmmm so I suppose non-catholic is now defined by not whether you are a member of the Church but whether you agree with the majority.

Oddly enough I’d say such attitudes are pushing me toward calling it quits. Not the desired effect, I’d imagine.
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It’s defined by baptism. In the sense that it’s used here, it’s defined by acceptance of the teachings of Holy Mother Church, which is ruled by Christ, not by a majority.
 
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Liberalsaved:
Hmmmm so I suppose non-catholic is now defined by not whether you are a member of the Church but whether you agree with the majority.
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That would be your definition, not a definition approved by the Church.
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Liberalsaved:
Oddly enough I’d say such attitudes are pushing me toward calling it quits.
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Well, I would recommend that you examine your attitudes more closely then. As for calling it quits: are you Catholic? If you are Catholic, then you should know where to go with questions. If you don’t then anyone here will be glad to direct you.
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Liberalsaved:
Not the desired effect, I’d imagine.
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The desired effect is produced by a thorough understanding of what the Church actually teaches, not what anyone has decided arbitrarily that the Church teaches. There are several very knowledgeable posters on the Apologetics Forum, including Church Militant. Catholic Answers also has an Ask an Apologist Forum. You can direct your questions to those forums and get very solid answers. Why don’t you do that?
 
“let the wheat and the tares grow together until the harvest…”
 
snoopy said:
I don’t quite get why that is such an important thing to keep posting. Does that somehow diminish the Catholic Church’s culpability?
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geezerbob answered well and I will add that while we should not engage in your-mom’s-ugly-too, it is legitimate to bring this up because people are bound and determined to try to get others to believe that specifically Catholic doctrine and disciplines cause or contribute heavily to sexual abuse. A contention not supported by the facts in the least and to continue to suggest they do constitutes anti-Catholicism of the ugliest sort.

Scott
 
That was why I asked for the stats in the first place, because I suspect abuse is not a uniquely Catholic trend. The difference I see, and we may know more about other denoms as victims in other Churches come forward, is that the Bishops were so complicit by moving priests around so much and failing to disclose to their new parishes. Had the Bishops just taken the time to tell St. Barnabas (for instance) that the priest he was assigning to them was an accused pedophile who had received counseling, then the parents might have been more vigilant with their children or people might have taken the opportunity to parish shop. Would have saved a lot of victims.

I think though that this is because of the authority that Catholic Bishops wield. Episcopalian Bishops don’t have or at least don’t use the kind of authority that can assign a priest to a parish without that parish’s consent. I suspect the same is true with Methodists.
 
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