The "I'm fed up with bad church music" thread

[friardchips]

We must regretfully report mission failure.

Nothing snobby about it.

A simple way to reason whether an expression can be objectively good or bad would be to take a simple example and follow the rule through.

…Can something be lacking in reverence?

If a person wore shorts and t-shirt to Church every Sunday and on the t-shirt had famous celebrities printed on it, with “I love money” scrawled all over, it could be sensibly deduced that such donned attire is not suitable (there could be more extreme examples we could use, if necessary, if this example is questioned as satisfactory).

Is this person culpable?

If the person doesn’t know better, then no. But the responsibility for that person’s education would then fall onto those around them, who do.

If the people around that person do not know better, then it would be the responsibility of others in the wider community to point this out.

There is such a thing as ignorance, which can (possibly) almost completely rid a person of personal culpability.

There is too, such a thing as culpable ignorance, which brings into the argument the fact that there are plenty of opportunities for people to learn between what is good and what is not.

 

[po18guy]

If the Bishops have addressed this very problem, it is not insignificant. Some of today’s music is akin to the Twelve listening to their iPods at the last supper.

The priest who married DW and I moved to a proto-Cathedral some years back. As to the music, he asked us: “Do you remember the guitar guy? I got rid of him.” A choir and Gregorian chant is now in his place.

Locally, a “clapping alleluia” is the worst offender. And no, I do not.

 

[PraiseChrist]

I’m going to try not to sound like a music snob here (even though I am pretty sure I am one), but I am fed up with hokey, schmaltzy music used in the place of good hymns or pieces of music for worship. This is in no way an attack on the musical talent of cantors or choirs (I’ve heard some good choirs given really BAD music) or to say that old music is better than new/contemporary. I’ve heard some things that just; they seem to me to detract from the sanctity of the mass rather than to add to it. This past Sunday the entrance hymn/song was “Alle, Alle , Alleluia” which I’m reasonably sure ripped off the melody from “Ten Little Indians” and a further Alleluia before the gospel (Bob Hurd/Ken Canedo). Anything involving a blues scale does not register as sacred and/or elevating to me.

If you want to make a change, then it’s probably only going to happen if you volunteer to be a part of the choir program, and once there, bring the idea up with the choir/music director.

 

[Bonnie]

While I appreciate all types of music, I am spoiled by Anglican musical history.

Back in the '80s someone I knew told me she visited an Anglican church with a friend. She said the music was so lovely, so like what Catholic music used to be like, that she ended up in tears. The parish we both belonged to was big on the '60s faux folk mass.

I joined the Church in '76, just when the phoney folk music was taking hold. I like real folk music, and some of the songs can have a place in the mass, but most do not.

 

[JanetF]

My parish plays different types of music at different masses.

We have a youth mass at noon that is very energetic and plays modern music. If it draws in young people I’m all for it. And I’m biased because my daughter used to sing in the band before going away to college. The band leader is very reverent and his choices in music are usually songs he has written or those written by Mark Hart etc. He doesn’t play Casting Crowns (because they’ve been known to bash Catholics at their concerts) or other protestant music.

The other masses during the weekend play the less modern but still post-vatican II hymns that I grew up with, but seriously can’t they find other music other than Ode to Joy to use with the new lyrics.

If the music draws people to Mass which is turn draws them close to our Lord, then is it really “bad”.

 

[nodito]

What did the pastor and/or music director say when you volunteered to help coordinate/direct/plan the liturgies?

I get the desire for good music. But if the problem is lack of variety, it could well be that “variety” is outside the scope of whoever is planning the liturgies and playing the music. It could be that your music taste is just different. But since we ARE the church, it doesn’t do much to complain about aspects of it that we are not able or willing to help address.

 

[pianistclare]

Oh goody. Another “let’s all mention the worst musicians and dump on them” thread.
:crutches:

How swell. :nope:

I’d weigh in, but I’m hungry.
And no, its NOT because of the pot thread.


Gather Us In? That piece was old 30 years ago.
But then, people LONG for the OLD STUFF. Except when it’s the old stuff they don’t like.
I need a scorecard… wait…lemme look around in my office…

oh. nevermind

You can’t win.
Nobody really cares enough to fix the music in the Catholic Church.
So go ahead, trash the poor volunteer with no resources, no liturgical training, and no talent in the chairs.

You know, because it’s all HIS fault.
uh-huh.
riiiiiiiiight

I gotta go. Gotta rehearse for Sunday.

 

[Bonnie]

But since we ARE the church, it doesn’t do much to complain about aspects of it that we are not able or willing to help address.

Which leaves those of us with no musical talent out in the cold.

 

[pianistclare]

Which leaves those of us with no musical talent out in the cold.

You can always donate to the Music Ministry. They often need $$ to buy suitable sheet music. Or to have the instrument tuned, even.

 

[OraLabora]

This thread needs a corresponding “I love chant so much that I formed or joined a schola/contributed $ to a schola” thread.

Really, that’s what we should see more of. Threads about people getting involved in music ministry and doing something about what it is they don’t like.

Maybe not everyone can chant a complex Mode V gradual with change of key mid-way, but there are many simpler chant settings that one can use and easily learn. Heck the Vatican even thought so and released some years ago the Graduale Simplex with simpler chant settings that use simple antiphons and psalm tones. And there are equivalent vernacular projects such as the Simple English Propers project.

And certainly almost anyone can learn the simpler settings for the Ordinary of the Mass.

Less whinge, more effort please. If a total music dud like myself could learn chant, then almost anyone can.

 

[Bonnie]

You can always donate to the Music Ministry. They often need $$ to buy suitable sheet music. Or to have the instrument tuned, even.

No extra money. This is a pretty small town, so I know most of the people in the music ministry. They’ve got a heck of a lot more money than I do. Husband & I live on SS.

We had a visiting musician last weekend & I enjoyed his music. It was pretty modern (husband didn’t care for it) but really well done. And he kept the volume down so for the hymns we all sang I could actually hear the congregation. We sounded pretty good!

At our usual parish the musicians are good about not being too loud. The only quibble is sometimes the leader seems to be playing different notes than what are in the hymnal, but it doesn’t trip us up - much.

 

[Gertabelle]

Oh goody. Another “let’s all mention the worst musicians and dump on them” thread.
:crutches:

…

Gather Us In? That piece was old 30 years ago.
But then, people LONG for the OLD STUFF. Except when it’s the old stuff they don’t like.
I need a scorecard… wait…lemme look around in my office…

oh. nevermind

You can’t win.
Nobody really cares enough to fix the music in the Catholic Church.
So go ahead, trash the poor volunteer with no resources, no liturgical training, and no talent in the chairs.

You know, because it’s all HIS fault.
uh-huh.
riiiiiiiiight

I gotta go. Gotta rehearse for Sunday.

:bighanky:

Seriously, I dread to think what people say about us behind our backs after mass – “That organist was HORRIBLE! Why don’t they get someone who can actually play?” Yeah, 'cause there are so many trained organists in the US today – and they’re all willing to play for FREE.

And, “Why did they sing that awful song?” or “Why didn’t they sing [insert favorite song here] at mass today? It would have fit the readings so much better.”

And again, “Can’t they sing even one song written in the past 100 years?!” or “Why don’t they sing more chant/polyphony/[insert favorite style here]? It’s the only type of music appropriate to mass.”

Like the rest of the Catholic Church, the music ministry isn’t a democracy. Join the choir, play an instrument, and you’ve got a chance of having a voice. Meanwhile, those of us choosing the music (with our pastor’s guidance, let me assure you!) know that discontent and judgment are always right beneath the surface. But we can only do what we can do.

You can always donate to the Music Ministry. They often need $$ to buy suitable sheet music. Or to have the instrument tuned, even.

Yeah. Our piano is sooooo out of tune. But our parish has very little income, and it has a parish school to support that serves many lower-income families.

I wish someone would have made the donation to get it tuned before Easter, but no such luck. Those of us in the choir loft may just start a collection of our own – “All right, everyone, hand over your loose change!” – until we have enough.

 

[ktmeyer]

We must regretfully report mission failure.

Oh Yeah, I might agree that I don’t like a lot of the music at mass, But I also try not to yuck someone else’s Yum. Somebody likes the music or they wouldn’t be using it. And I bet back in Mozart’s gate there were lots of people saying they didn’t like his modern music.

 

[tawny]

Oh goody. Another “let’s all mention the worst musicians and dump on them” thread.
:crutches:

How swell. :nope:

I’d weigh in, but I’m hungry.
And no, its NOT because of the pot thread.


Gather Us In? That piece was old 30 years ago.
But then, people LONG for the OLD STUFF. Except when it’s the old stuff they don’t like.
I need a scorecard… wait…lemme look around in my office…

oh. nevermind

You can’t win.
Nobody really cares enough to fix the music in the Catholic Church.
So go ahead, trash the poor volunteer with no resources, no liturgical training, and no talent in the chairs.

You know, because it’s all HIS fault.
uh-huh.
riiiiiiiiight

I gotta go. Gotta rehearse for Sunday.

Great response! Parishioners sometimes forget that Music Directors, Choir members & Musicians are all volunteers. Or, if they are paid it is a minute stipend.

 

[nodito]

Which leaves those of us with no musical talent out in the cold.

Bonnie, I have no musical talent either. But if I were really unhappy with the music ministry in my Church, I can think of several things I might do to help, rather than critique it.

-Donate money for sheet music, etc (as someone else mentioned)
-Organize a bake sale or car wash to raise a bit of money to help tune instruments
-Offer to help plan the liturgies, researching the upcoming readings, picking appropriate songs, etc
-Offering to volunteer to watch children during Mass so talented musicians with young families could participate
-Offer to join the choir anyway to help sing (in my experience, choirs tend to sound nicer when there are many people singing chorus)
-Asking what the choir director needs and volunteering to help find someone to meet that need

I’ve also noticed that complimenting a particular song choice can go a long ways towards getting that song and those like it played more frequently.

 

[phil19034]

I understand what you are saying…

Yesterday, I attended Mass at another parish close to my house and my Pentecost was ruined until I attended Bible Study.

No matter how much I prayed for patience, I could not focus on the Mass because the Music director had people playing the drums and was rocking out during mass with his Billy Joel like piano playing and all the electric guitars.

I noticed some people with a look of disgust on their faces while others were taping their feet or nodding their heads with the rhythm.

Regardless if you liked that kind of music (and I don’t) it was obviously a distraction on both ends of the spectrum and the music was taking center stage over the Mass. People like me were disgusted with the music, while people who liked it appeared to be more fixated on the beat than praying the hymns.

The only time I was actually able to pray was when the music director did a Latin solo before the rest of the band broke out into their concert again.

Needless to say, I refrained from communion because I was not in the right frame of mind.

There is a reason why Church documents have historically said that percussion instruments (which includes the piano) were not approved for Church use. Percussion instruments have a way of taking center stage over, which is way many secular artists use them – they how a person focus on the music, beat and rhythm. Which is great for art, but not good for worship.

God Bless

 

[victrolatim]

My favorite excuse about carrying on with the same 10 outdated folk tunes is that “We have to attract the youth”…

I’m partial to hymns and chant, but there are some contemporary pieces/songs that I like and find very contemplative.

Drums and electric guitars…ugh

Acoustic guitars can be very pleasant. I recall an All Souls service I went to where the organ played with an acoustic guitar. It was a very nice sound.

Occasionally churches around here will have a polka mass. Coming from a person with Polish ancestry…just run when you see one of those in the bulletin.

 

[Bonnie]

Bonnie, I have no musical talent either. But if I were really unhappy with the music ministry in my Church, I can think of several things I might do to help, rather than critique it.

-Donate money for sheet music, etc (as someone else mentioned)
-Organize a bake sale or car wash to raise a bit of money to help tune instruments
-Offer to help plan the liturgies, researching the upcoming readings, picking appropriate songs, etc
-Offering to volunteer to watch children during Mass so talented musicians with young families could participate
-Offer to join the choir anyway to help sing (in my experience, choirs tend to sound nicer when there are many people singing chorus)
-Asking what the choir director needs and volunteering to help find someone to meet that need

I’ve also noticed that complimenting a particular song choice can go a long ways towards getting that song and those like it played more frequently.

I’m unable to most of those, but I do compliment the song leader (don’t know what else to call him) when he’s chosen something I really like. Doesn’t seem to affect later choices.

But those who don’t like us oldsters carping about the music don’t have to take it for long. We’ll be gone in 10-20 years & they’ll be the oldsters carping about the music their kids & grandkids like.

 

[phil19034]

Great response! Parishioners sometimes forget that Music Directors, Choir members & Musicians are all volunteers. Or, if they are paid it is a minute stipend.

I think that most people actually do understand that. But I think what happens is that there are two kinds of music ministries out there

1. Music ministries that do what the pastor tells them to do (which I think is most of them)
2. Music ministries that tell father it is their way or the highway.

I have spoken with two pastors who both love traditional music (and who love the Extraordinary Form - from two different dioceses) at length about the music ministries in their parishes.

They have both mentioned to me that have both tried to replace the OCP music missals with different hymns and have tried to ban specific hymns that they say both believe are not faithful to Catholic theology, but the music ministries in their parishes will not listen to them.

In both parishes, the volunteer ministries have held Father hostage by stating that they will only play what they want to play or Father will need to find other musicians.

So I honestly think when people complain about the musicians specifically, they are referring to the musicians who refuse to follow Father’s wishes.

So if you are a musician, doing what Father wants you to do, please do not take any offense to these posts: you are doing what you should be doing. But if you are disobeying Father and playing what you want, then please understand that your way of worship is not shared by everyone – just like those of us who like chant need to understand that our way of worship is not shared by everyone.

God Bless!

 

[Bonnie]

I’m partial to hymns and chant, but there are some contemporary pieces/songs that I like and find very contemplative.

I know what you mean. I’m very fond of Servant Song by Sr. Donna Marie McGargill.