The importance of immigration

[philipl]

The industrial revolution was built by a massive jump in technical advancement. If you had to pick one thing, it would be the steam engine.

It was the steam engine. BTW The watts steam engine operated at slightly above atmospheric pressure. It wasnt until later pressure boilers started being used

 

[Theo520]

It was the steam engine. BTW The watts steam engine operated at slightly above atmospheric pressure. It wasnt until later pressure boilers started being used

I find it deeply disturbing that progressives here choose to rewrite basic world history just to bolster their immigration talking points.

Since it must be intentional, it shows a complete disconnect with integrity.

 

[blackforest]

Seems anything short of a captial crime and they think you are good to go.

Evidence?

Don’t you wan’t your kids to be a bit selective in whom they marry, or invite into your family?

They’re not my spouse or my family, they’re my neighbors. I don’t always get to choose my neighbors. (If I did, I’d have much more pleasant ones than those who live upstairs from me. ) I do know that Christ commands us to love them.

 

[Rhubarb]

Feel free to keep telling yourself that, friend.

I mean, yes, technology was important. The steam engine had been around for a long time before our economy exploded in the gilded age. It was the immigrants that drove the hammers, and the plows, and the rivets. Factory workers who were taking product home for finishing work at home. A steam engine doesn’t do anything without people to run it. And shovel coal into it. The scalability of it all is what made the US economy explode. It doesn’t take a lot of reading to find the information and arguments. I teach the subject, for goodness sake. The immigration waves through our history always lead to growth. And there’s always reactionary people who are opposed to it, who were proven wrong in the end. Be it the No-Nothings that bashed Catholic immigrants, the reactionaries that were brutally repressive to the Chinese immigrants, and so on and so forth.

 

[Rhubarb]

We don’t need bio-engineers and such. The “point system” is laughable. I sincerely doubt many on this board would have enough points to qualify, if they weren’t already citizens.

Perhaps an anecdote? In Northern California specifically there is a huge backlog of construction jobs. I know this because I work with rebar firms in the area. There are many jobs that are going un-done because there just aren’t the laborers needed to do the work. Locals will not - we have a stack on a desk in the controller’s office of checks for locals who took the work, bucked iron for like, 2 hours and quit. And they’re too embarrassed to pick up their checks for the work because they couldn’t hack it.

There’s a reason we’ve brought in immigrants for decades to do the work that there is just not enough workers to do. My grandmother still tells stories about her father and my grandfather driving around Fresno looking for workers to pick the grapes, before the grapes rotted on the vine. These are serious problems. These aren’t jobs that are being taken from citizen. And it’s work that needs to be done.

 

[Theo520]

We don’t need bio-engineers and such. The “point system” is laughable. I sincerely doubt many on this board would have enough points to qualify, if they weren’t already citizens.

So you think the Canadian and Australian systems are a joke? Why is it a problem if they have a higher standard than the average education of citizens?

Since you are avoiding the family analogy, You seem to be saying you don’t care if your neighbor is a squatter, rather than a person who moved in legally. Most want their neighbors to be there legally.

And yes, you are repeating historical BS if you claim population drove the industrial revolution. We actually had an oversupply of labor as people moved off small farms into metro areas, we had a shortage of jobs. Nothing there was driven by immigration. Any lie for the cause though, right?

 

[Rhubarb]

I didn’t say population drove “the industrial revolution” I said that immigration is what gave the US the push it needed INTO the industrial age, which was already going on. And onward into the 1900s.

These are different things that “drove the industrial revolution”, which happened all over the world.

Call it BS if you want but it gets 4s and 5s on AP tests. Which are fairly rigorous. I’m not saying technology was important. I’m just saying you’re acting like a child in the way you discuss it. But as the song says: living is easy with eyes closed. Why bother investigating something when your local party office HQ will tell you all you need to think. Or send talking points for Hannity and Tucker Carlson to vomit all over their desk.

The greatest irony is the old adage that if we don’t study history we’re bound to repeat it. Your attitude and thinking is the same as the No-Nothings that wanted to keep the Catholics out of this country because they were foreign and different and wouldn’t assimilate. Taking all the jobs for good protestant Americans.

 

[ATraveller]

they can’t pass the drug tests. THAT is the problem.

This.
And yet the most pro-mass migration activists happen to, in all practicality, promote illicit drugs use. The 60’s pro-drugs monster is still alive and this is the consequence. Only those in the upper classes can get away with illicit drugs use. Everyone else below can’t yet it’s promoted and glorified. Discouraging it is now ‘judgmental’, ‘mean’ and ‘being on the wrong side of history’ (which is a stupid phrase often used by those who can’t argue based on facts).

 

[on_the_hill]

I don’t know if the cause is a pro-drugs monster from the 60s. I do know it’s the pro-drugs opioid manufacturers who caused the current epidemic. Pfizer knew opioids were addictive and still paid doctors to prescribe it in vast quantities. Most addicts are white middle class middle aged men.

 

[Kulkillian]

Since you’re (I’m guessing, mostly) Polish, you might appreciate this:

As after three negotiating rounds in the German fast food sector the employers had not come up with any substantial offer, NGG, the German Food, Beverages and Hospitality Trade Union, had started strike actions. Starbucks reaction was to recruit workers in Poland to “volunteer” to “support” Starbucks Coffee Shops in Germany to ensure full service to clients in the event of strikes, preconditions were basic German language skills, EU passport and flexibility.

NGG sharply criticized these attempts to break the strikes in Germany. Following the actions of Polish trade unions and workers in front of Starbucks outlets in Warsaw and Poznan, the company AmRest, which operates Starbucks in Central Europe and in Germany, gave up attempts to recruit strike breakers amongst their Polish workers.

The Polish workers knew what was going on, and wanted nothing to do with it.

Solidarity is the only weapon available to workers in conflict with entrepreneurs. But it is not easy. We have to repeat loudly that such battles are won by consistency, principles and sacrifice. Starbucks’ actions are a nineteenth century capitalist’s trick: Economic blackmail and turning one group against another.

Responsible levels of immigration are good for the economy. Irresponsible immigration laws reduce the power and cost of labor (which is pretty much the point of irresponsible immigration laws).

But it’s a foregone conclusion that the immigration during the 1800s is what gave the US the push it needed into the industrial age, and onward into the 1900s.

Immigration creations jobs, it creates customers, it creates growth.

The 1800s was not a good time for American workers, and to be honest it wasn’t that great for the Irish immigrants either. The immigrants aren’t the villains here, most of us would bend and break laws to provide for our families and assure our survival. The problem is with elected officials making bad laws, and with good laws not being enforced.

 

[on_the_hill]

Years ago, after Poland joined the EU, there was a shortage of white asparagus in Germany.

White asparagus is a German delicacy. It had traditionally been harvested by Polish migrant workers. Young Poles would travel to Germany to pick the asparagus and tour the country. It was a win-win.

EU restrictions put and end to that practice. The result was a culinary disaster. Germans love white asparagus but really don’t want to pick it.

For a present day comparison, check out what’s happening to the Chesapeake blue crab harvest. The economy is being crushed by Trump’s immigration policies http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-crab-visa-shortage-20180502-story.html

 

[Theo520]

I said that immigration is what gave the US the push it needed INTO the industrial age,

Explain yourself then, if you have such a different connotation between ‘pushed us into the industrial age’ and my interpretation of your words, that immigration drove us into the industrial age.

Then explain how it made our industrial revolution different than the UK, also industrializing but with people leaving.

 

[philipl]

Another logical fallacy being used. Watt didnt invent the steam engine. He did improve it. It was his method of using the steam engine to turn a wheel that caused the industrial revolution to go into to high gear. There were industries before the steam engine but it required so much human labor those factories were not very efficient. BTW yes they used immigrants, but the welfare state wasnt around to help support them.

 

[Theo520]

before the steam engine, industry was largely limited to river side locations where they could employ water wheels to create the mechanical energy and turn those wheels.

 

[ATraveller]

Drug addiction and drug culture all have a profound impact. The culture that’s glorified, it’s about being in a stupor. It fosters passivity and laziness in some and it pulls others into destruction.
Oddly enough, places like India and many African countries are suffering from pain because of restrictions on opioids due to misuse in the US. And when they’re prescribed, people in those places aren’t addicted. It appears it’s not just a problem from the supply side but also on the demand side. There is something terribly wrong with American culture. Something like a hidden despair among the American people.

 

[Augustinian]

Pfizer knew opioids were addictive

The fact that opioids are addictive was known long before Pfizer started his pill making company

 

[on_the_hill]

Yes. But in the case of oxycodone, etc., the manufacturers explicitly denied that they were addictive, saying that it was a “pseudo” addiction.

Aside from all that, new research shows that some types of pain that are commonly prescribed opioids are treated just as effectively with ibuprofen or Tylenol.

 

[Augustinian]

Aside from all that, new research shows that some types of pain that are commonly prescribed opioids are treated just as effectively with ibuprofen or Tylenol.

I think it depends on the severity of the pain, but you’re right that a lot of patients are over treated.

When I broke my arm last year, they gave me dilaudid, but just for a day, a handful of Vikes and that was that. I was in pretty severe pain, and I did need it but not for very long. Some doctors might give a patient a hundred pills or more.

 

[Annie]

My dentist told me to take a particular combination of the two. That worked as well as the prescription stuff which had codeine in it.

 

[Annie]

We have huge numbers of people here who are not working, and yet we have to bring in immigrants to do the work?

Used to be that working construction or manufacturing was a good job which would allow a man to support a family. Men wanted those types of jobs. They did not want to work at Wal-Mart, MacDonald’s, or a gas station long-term.

Many women do not have the physical abilities to do some of those jobs, but they could do other, lighter tasks which, being safer as a general rule, involved less pay.

We seem to have had a cultural push that blue collar work is beneath us. Everyone has to go to college and get a white collar job afterwards. Our expectations have been raised so much that there are many who weren’t able to go the college route simply gave up and don’t work at all.

There are problems in our society that are simply masked by immigration.

I have no problem with changing the laws to allow more legal immigrants in (if they don’t discriminate based on systemic problems such as the UN refugee system) but I also think we need to consider why there are many people in the U S who are not working when they could be.