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Sailor_Kenshin
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You’re right! How could I have been so blind?Oh silly you…as long as the bible goes against what they WANT they dont wanna hear about it
They just want us all to accept what they do as “normal” & “moral”
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tmango
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There is no doubt that the family structure is under attack from all sides. We are at war with principalities and powers looking for souls, and the easiest way to get those souls is to destroy that family structure. Divide and conquer. They are dividing this country along the lines of morality. Destroy the family through the promotion of abortion, homosexuality, pornography, and the destruction of the family unit. Their methods of attack are well planned, but we are mounting a counter attack. Many of us are battling back against abortion, gay marriage, the proliferation of pornography, and the removing of God from the public’s eye. Just remain strong in your faith and live your faith as an example to all of those watching that they may see us catholics as an example to be followed, not discriminated against. Afterall, we know who wins in the end.
Jesus through Mary…Pray the rosary daily
Jesus through Mary…Pray the rosary daily
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He_Man
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I was referring to the posters who whined about the article being nasty, without actually refuting anything in it. You made reference to the OP not responding, and my point was “respond to what?” Challenge him or her on the points made, and then a response is warranted. Saying “I don’t like the tone” like so many did doesn’t warrant a discussion.
At least MattC did this, even if he is dead wrong.
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Sailor_Kenshin
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I like the almost-rhyme! Think I’ll calligraphy it.
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Elric
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Why is it wrong?
Which version of the bible would that be?
It is funny because a lot of slavers used the bible as an excuse for slavery citing that it was their God given right. Maybe there is more to the slavery/homosexual comparison than you think?
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wifeandmomoftwo
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Pope Eugene IV in 1435 wrote to Bishop Ferdinand of Lanzarote in his Bull, Sicut Dudum:
…They have deprived the natives of their property or turned it to their own use, and have subjected some of the inhabitants of said islands to perpetual slavery, sold them to other persons and committed other various illicit and evil deeds against them… We order and command all and each of the faithful of each sex that, within the space of fifteen days of the publication of these letters in the place where they live, that they restore to their earlier liberty all and each person of either sex who were once residents of said Canary Islands…who have been made subject to slavery. These people are to be totally and perpetually free and are to be let go without the exaction or reception of any money… [Panzer, p. 8; also pp. 75-78 with original critical Latin text]
Pope Paul III in 1537 issued a Bull against slavery, entitled Sublimis Deus, to the universal Church. He wrote:
*…The exalted God loved the human race so much that He created man in such a condition that he was not only a sharer in good as are other creatures, but also that he would be able to reach and see face to face the inaccessible and invisible Supreme Good… Seeing this and envying it, the enemy of the human race, who always opposes all good men so that the race may perish, has thought up a way, unheard of before now, by which he might impede the saving word of God from being preached to the nations. He (Satan) has stirred up some of his allies who, desiring to satisfy their own avarice, are presuming to assert far and wide that the Indians…be reduced to our service like brute animals, under the pretext that they are lacking the Catholic faith. And they reduce them to slavery, treating them with afflictions they would scarcely use with brute animals… by our Apostolic Authority decree and declare by these present letters that the same Indians and all other peoples - even though they are outside the faith - …should not be deprived of their liberty… Rather they are to be able to use and enjoy this liberty and this ownership of property freely and licitly, and are not to be reduced to slavery… [Ibid., pp.79-81 with original critical Latin text]
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Popes Gregory XIV (Cum Sicuti, 1591), Urban VIII (Commissum Nobis, 1639) and Benedict XIV (Immensa Pastorum, 1741) also condemned slavery and the slave trade.
Pope Gregory XVI in 1839 issued a Bull, entitled In Supremo. Its main focus was against slave trading, but it also clearly condemned racial slavery:
We, by apostolic authority, warn and strongly exhort in the Lord faithful Christians of every condition that no one in the future dare bother unjustly, despoil of their possessions, or reduce to slavery Indians, Blacks or other such peoples. [Ibid., pp.101]
With all these formal condemnations, it is a shame that the Popes were largely ignored by the Catholic laity and clergy. The Popes were so ignored that some people today claim that they were silent.
users.binary.net/polycarp/slave.html
Now that we listen to our Pope and our Church we are called bigots, anti-homosexual or the best one of all ANTI-CHRISTIAN .
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Elric
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I have to ask what your point is with this exactly?
This doesnt refute what I wrote, or have that much relevence really. People used (some people still use) the bible to condone/justify slavery.
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He_Man
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Even Jesse Jackson said the equation of slavery to gay rights is a joke.
Legitimize homosexuality, and in 50 years, the fight for equal rights for bestiophiles will begin. It never stops with deviant behavior.
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wifeandmomoftwo
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And I am showing you that the Church is not one of them. (condone or justify slavery).
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wifeandmomoftwo
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“The comparison with slavery is a stretch in that some slave masters were gay, in that gays were never called three-fifths human in the Constitution and in that they did not require the Voting Rights Act to have the right to vote,” Jackson remarked in an address at Harvard Law School.
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Elric
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Im sorry, I wasnt actually aware that I mentioned anything about “the church”. I was refering to social opinions pre US Civil War.
But if you want to use “the churches” opposition to slavery as an example, that fine.
Basically they went against something that is apparently written in the bible because they believed it was wrong and were pretty much more enlightened than those who were around when said passages were apparently written. Good for them (honestly, good for them, slavery is wrong).
Now we are in an age where we are more enlightened and know more about a lot of things than we did before (like mental illness, neurological disorders, migraines, stomach ulcers ect), perhaps it is time to repeat such an act and really stop the persicution of a group of people?
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Elric
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Well that is his opinion, it doesnt mean that it is right.
Well that is your opinion, it doesnt mean that it is right. What makes you say that homosexuality is devient behaviour?
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wifeandmomoftwo
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The church does not persecute gays…as much as you want to believe otherwise.
*CCC2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. **They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. *These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
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Sailor_Kenshin
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Just a teeny bit of common sense will go a long way in ‘explaining’ why it is deviant.
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wifeandmomoftwo
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Becuase it is…
CCC 2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
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wifeandmomoftwo
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He_Man
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I try and lives by the teachings of OUR Catholic Church, for starters.
By definition it deviates from the norm, so it is deviant behavior.
How can you know think it is deviant behavior? Don’t infer angst or hatred here simply because we are accurately labeling things.
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KathleenElsie
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Slaves were forced into bondage against there own will. Are you saying that gays are being forced into bondage and moved places against their will? Are gays made to work without pay? Can gays be bought and sold against their own free will? How about not being allowed to own land or other personal items? No then the situations are not the same by a long shot?
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Tim_Kirchoff
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It’s better than the other analogy that was used earlier on…
At least they’re getting closer
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Elric
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Who said anything about the situations being the same?
I wasnt suggesting any of the things that you have cited (although gays can be bought and sold against their own free will where slavery is still alive and well), they would be absurd suggestions to make. But there are other way that they are compariable, although the comparison is stronger post 1865.
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