The Insidious Creeping of the Gay Movement

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I ask again, are we supposed to confirm homosexuals in their sin in the name of 'tolerance?"

Then why not confirm the rights of murderers and child pornographers----strictly in the name of ‘tolerance,’ of course.

 

[jssaxon]

I ask again, are we supposed to confirm homosexuals in their sin in the name of 'tolerance?"

Then why not confirm the rights of murderers and child pornographers----strictly in the name of ‘tolerance,’ of course.

You are comparing consensual sex between adults to murder?

 

[bones_IV]

You are comparing consensual sex between adults to murder?

NO! What you are saying is suggestive of moral relativism.

Read Pascendi Dominici Gregis by Pope Pius X.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

You are comparing consensual sex between adults to murder?

No. But some are.

Sin is sin. It is never morally justified to ‘tolerate’ it. Take a look around you at the society that such ‘tolerance’ has gotten us. Tthen take your moral relativism and peddle it elsewhere.

 

[fix]

Actually, your translation of the Bible told you that…not God. Basic rights include the right to marry, the right to hold hands in public without scorn, the right to visit your partner in the hospital. Those are the rights I speak of.

Where do you think rights come from? Is there a right to act wrongly?

 

[He_Man]

Did you understand what I wrote or did you just jump to conclusions?

I did not say anything about homosexuals not having souls worth saving. I simply believe that homosexuality is not a sin and you should stop using shoddy justification to shrug off personal accountability for your actions, thoughts, and beliefs.

Matt

It has been said before, but what you believe is irrelvant. This isn’t the Church of MattyC.

it is the Church of Jesus Christ; we follows His rules, and His teachings as handed down through those He left in charge.

If everyone lived their lives by THEIR OWN peosonal belief, you do realize you and I would probably be dead right now? Anarchy would ensue.

 

[He_Man]

Actually, your translation of the Bible told you that…not God. Basic rights include the right to marry, the right to hold hands in public without scorn, the right to visit your partner in the hospital. Those are the rights I speak of.
They are not special rights. They are equal rights. Yes, they can marry a member of the opposite gender, but that is equivalent to saying: You can wear jeans, provided they are size 32. it is the exact same reasoning behind each statement. They are not special rights, they are equal. You could marry a member of the same gender too, if same sex marriage was allowed, so it would apply to everyone; its not a special right.

Also, they do not have the right to freedom of expression. That would include the expression of love. Do they have the full ability to life, liberty, and a pursuit of happiness? No. Therefore, they do not have all the same rights that you do.

Regardless of whether you believe homosexuality as a sin or not, you should at least give them the respect to treat it with tolerance.

Matt

Did you just make up the list of rights? If so, you forgot the right to play video games and the right to dessert.

You seemed teed off, but you can’t seem to offer anything substantive other than “THIS IS WHAT I THINK!!” Where are you basing this? We have given the bible and the Catechism as proof of where we derive our beliefs; where do you derive yours, because if I recall my AP government class, hand-holding isn’t in the Constitution.

 

[He_Man]

You are comparing consensual sex between adults to murder?

Mortal sin is mortal sin. Both can lose your soul to hell.

 

[tmango]

I think everyone is getting off the track, and there seems to be a lot of going back and forth and no give on either side. All I can say is that God loves the sinner, but hates the sin. Our catholic beliefs are what they are. They come from Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the teachings of the Magisterium. This is our faith. If one does not agree with these core beliefs, then I would think that he is not a catholic. Simply…it is what it is. There is no adding or taking away from our beliefs and still remain a catholic. Our faith is to be lived, and that means to Love Thy Neighbor. Loving thy neighbor does not mean to enable that same neighbor to fall into sin, or to change our beliefs to accomodate that sinner, so as to not hurt his or her feelings. Our belief does not mean we have to conform to the thinking of others that disagree with us. It seems that WE CATHOLICS are seen as the intolerant ones, yet we get discriminated against by so many others. Where is the tolerance for us? Why must we change our beliefs because others disagree?

As for homosexuality, it is a sin. No ifs, ands, or buts. The sixth commandment: “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” makes this act a sin. According to the catholic catechism, sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes. It also states that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. They are contrary to natural law. Homosexuals must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition. Homosexual persons are called to chasity.”

This is the teaching of the Magisterium, therefore, it is our faith. It is what it is.

Marriage is one of the seven sacrements of the catholic faith, therefore, we catholics cannot promote same sex marriages. Again, this is our faith.

Lastly, according to Sacred Scripture, in Leviticus, Chapter 18, vs 22 it states, “You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination.” If you read all of chapter, is speaks of incest and adultery of all forms that are to be avoided. Again, this is our faith as catholics.

All I ask is that we are allowed as much tolerance and understanding as we give to those that do not believe as we do. A couple of my friends are homosexual, and I do not preach to them, nor do they attempt to change my way of thinking. I respect them and love them, and I pray for them as well. We each know how the other feels and we tolerate each others lifestyle. This is how it should be. We can agree to disagree and still love and care about each other.

Would I support same sex marriage----no. Would I support the life partner of someone close to death in a hospital to be allowed in to see their partner…yes…of course. We do have some common ground. Let’s find it and live together in peace.

May our Lord give us all the blessing of his grace so that we may come together in friendship.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Who said anything about the situations being the same?

I wasnt suggesting any of the things that you have cited (although gays can be bought and sold against their own free will where slavery is still alive and well), they would be absurd suggestions to make. But there are other way that they are compariable, although the comparison is stronger post 1865.

Go back and read your own post #45.

 

[mattyc4]

It has been said before, but what you believe is irrelvant. This isn’t the Church of MattyC.

it is the Church of Jesus Christ; we follows His rules, and His teachings as handed down through those He left in charge.

If everyone lived their lives by THEIR OWN peosonal belief, you do realize you and I would probably be dead right now? Anarchy would ensue.

I am not arrogant enough to impose my beliefs on others–nor should they accept it. I would be horrified if I created another religion.

I mean, imagine if I created a religion or church had the audacity to allow millions of africans to die from AIDS, because I considered contraception a greater evil than preventing death and suffering to millions-- leaving millions of children parentless and in the clutches of a drastically shortened lifespan. I mean, imagine what evil could come of that.

If everyone had personal accountability and responsibility for their own decisions the world would be, without a doubt, a better place.

Matt

 

[mattyc4]

Where do you think rights come from? Is there a right to act wrongly?

Where do rights come from? Well, the rights I speak of come from the USA constitution. The Bible was certainly not the first book that set out some rights.

Matt

 

[mattyc4]

Did you just make up the list of rights? If so, you forgot the right to play video games and the right to dessert.

You seemed teed off, but you can’t seem to offer anything substantive other than “THIS IS WHAT I THINK!!” Where are you basing this? We have given the bible and the Catechism as proof of where we derive our beliefs; where do you derive yours, because if I recall my AP government class, hand-holding isn’t in the Constitution.

Handholding is under freedom of expression. I am pretty sure AP Government covers the constitution.

This is what general compassion, morality, and intellect tells many. I claim no special insight. I derive my evidence from a variety of sources, including the bible.

Matt

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

I mean, imagine if I created a religion or church had the audacity to allow millions of africans to die from AIDS, because I considered contraception a greater evil than preventing death and suffering to millions-- leaving millions of children parentless and in the clutches of a drastically shortened lifespan. I mean, imagine what evil could come of that.
**WOW! You know what would STOP the spread of AIDS…NOT condoms…ABSTINENCE!
Just imagine how many millions of people could of been saved if they kept their sexual depravity or lust from controlling them! **

Matt

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

Actually, your translation of the Bible told you that…not God. Basic rights include the right to marry, the right to hold hands in public without scorn, the right to visit your partner in the hospital. Those are the rights I speak of.
They are not special rights.
Matt

Where do rights come from? Well, the rights I speak of come from the USA constitution. The Bible was certainly not the first book that set out some rights.

Matt

I am sorry but where in the Constitution does it say that you or anybody has the the right to marry? Hint, it is not! These are the basic rights afford to all in this country…what are gays being excluded from?

These are the “rights” that we have in the Constitution:

Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press petition and assembly.
Amendment 2 - Right to Bear Arms
Amendment 3 - Quartering of Soldiers
Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure
Amendment 5 - Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings
Amendment 6 - Right to Speedy Trial, Confrontation of Witnesses
Amendment 7 - Trial by Jury in Civil Cases
Amendment 8 - Cruel and Unusual Punishment
Amendment 9 - Construction of Constitution
Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People
Amendment 11 - Judicial Limits
Amendment 12 - Choosing the President, Vice President
Amendment 13 - Slavery Abolished
Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights
Amendment 15 - Race No Bar to Vote
Amendment 16 - Status of Income Tax Clarified
Amendment 17 - Senators Elected by Popular Vote
Amendment 18 - Liquor Abolished
Amendment 19 - Women’s Suffrage
Amendment 20 - Presidential, Congressional Terms
Amendment 21 - Amendment 18 Repealed
Amendment 22 - Presidential Term Limits
Amendment 23 - Presidential Vote for District of Columbia
Amendment 24 - Poll Taxes Barred
Amendment 25 - Presidential Disability and Succession
Amendment 26 - Voting Age Set to 18 Years
Amendment 27 - Limiting Congressional Pay Increases

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

Handholding is under freedom of expression. I am pretty sure AP Government covers the constitution.

This is what general compassion, morality, and intellect tells many. I claim no special insight. I derive my evidence from a variety of sources, including the bible.

Matt

There is no Freedom of Expression in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights.
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law** respecting an establishment of religion**, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.billofrights.html

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Where do rights come from? Well, the rights I speak of come from the USA constitution. The Bible was certainly not the first book that set out some rights.

Matt

So the Constitution pre-dates the Bible. Interesting. No wonder history teachers are not permitted to teach events in linear time any more. It might interfere with… something or other.

And where did the US Constitution (a fine document, BTW) get its idea of rights?

 

[Elric]

Go back and read your own post #45.

Ok, I did that. What exactly was it meant to show?

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

And where did the US Constitution (a fine document, BTW) get its idea of rights?

Hey, Hey Sailor …Im still trying to get where in the Constitution marriage is a right and where the Freedom of Expression part is…lets not bombard the poor guy with too many questions we may never get the answers we seek.

 

[mattyc4]

So the Constitution pre-dates the Bible. Interesting. No wonder history teachers are not permitted to teach events in linear time any more. It might interfere with… something or other.

And where did the US Constitution (a fine document, BTW) get its idea of rights?

I never said that, nor implied it. I simply said there were codes of conduct prior to the Bible.