The Invention of Catholicism?

[ron77nyc]

Yes, in a certain sense they are, and I suppose in that sense, one could say that the Catholic Church began with Adam and Eve. But the visible Church on earth under the New Covenant began with Jesus and the Apostles.

I’m just going out on a limb here, but I don’t think Jews consider themselves Catholic, but yes, they are certainly joined to the Catholic Church in an important way.

To say the Catholic Church began with Adam and Eve is like saying Abraham was the first Jehovah’s Witness or John was the first Baptist.

 

[jake23]

If any denomination other than the Catholic Church honors Christ as Savior, than they are all under the same umbrella of Christ.

Except that the differences have to do with how they desire to honor Him, much as like siblings honoring their father and mother their own way.

So the argument goes amongst the siblings, as to who has a better church, who is closer to God and or who is more entitled to have the honor of Gods presence via what ever practice is deemed worthy.

If we can not be all sons of God via Jesus, than a church membership will not make a bit of difference.

It is the same as saying “If there is no Godly love demonstrated, than God is not in us”.

We do recall the story of the Good Samaritan? Was he a Jew?

Luk 10:31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
Luk 10:32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
Luk 10:33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,

What have we here? A priest that was supposed to exercise Godly compassion, a Levite which represented the levitical priesthood and than a Samaritan, who by whom the Jews wanted no association with.

The Samaritan was not of the fold, of the Jewish sect, yet he demonstrated Godly Compassion.

What good was the synagogue to the priest and the Levitical priest when compassion was lacking in demonstration?

Take note: Godly love demonstrated in compassion need only be generated from the heart and need not be a member of anything except understand respect for God and or for others beliefs.

Be whatever you want to be, a Catholic or a protestant, but if your works don’t demonstrate God’s love in your daily living, than I can safely say, your religion is no earthly or heavenly good.

If we are to learn something new about God which one of us has discovered, lets us judge with the eye of love, its validity.

The question was asked of Jesus: Mar 10:37 They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory.

What was Jesus’ response? Mar 10:40 But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared.

Well I guess that didn’t sit to well with the other siblings, did it?

So, be it that… Mar 10:43 But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister…we shall all be ministers if we wish to be great!

Peace>>>AJ

I’m going to star calling you blind 3467! I like how you misconstrude the verses! Seriousely go to gellege and get a degree on the matter so we can start agreeing with each other!

 

[banjo]

That authority has been abused so many times that I wonder about the accuracy of that interpretation of scripture.

ron,
Read the parable of the net (Mt 13:47ff). It should come as no surprise to find people in the Church who do not live up to their calling. The thing to note is that there is never a suggestion of getting rid of the net or finding another way to fish because the net has undesireable things in it. Christ warned us, “It is inevitable that scandal should occur.” (Mt 18:7) So in spite of the weaknesses of some we hold to the truth and authority of the Church’s teachings and try to remember the great number of those who have lived up to their calling down through the centuries.

 

[jmcrae]

To say the Catholic Church began with Adam and Eve is like saying Abraham was the first Jehovah’s Witness or John was the first Baptist.

Actually, it’s more like saying that Jews are Catholic.

 

[ron77nyc]

Because you seem to ne resistant to the Church’s teachings on the matter.
"By their fruits you shall know them" (Matthew 7:16).

Maybe because I’m aware of what is going on.

I’m not suggesting you do anything. I’m asking why you would identify yourself as Catholic when you are obviously disgusted with the Church and her teachings.
Again, I refer to Matthew 7:16 (above).

Which false teachings are you referring to?

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink, or in respect of a festival day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbaths, 17 Which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ. 18 Let no man seduce you, willing in humility, and religion of angels, walking in the things which he hath not seen, in vain puffed up by the sense of his flesh, 19 And not holding the head, from which the whole body, by joints and bands, being supplied with nourishment and compacted, groweth unto the increase of God.

The head is Jesus and no one else..

Romans 14:5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.
Romans 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
Galatians 4:10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.

Observance of special days is the Old Covenant. Catholics are again condemned with mortal sin for not observing holy days.

Then, please tell me - how do you interprest those scripture passages?

Scriptures relating to the infallibility of Peter and “no salvation outside the church” were valid when they were first written but have proven themselves to be outdated. All popes are not in complete agreement on all issues of the faith so some of those popes have erred.

 

[look3467]

"We are are justified by works,>>>CoachSTL

Dear friend, our righteousness is as filthy rags, so no matter how right we may think we are with God in what ever we do.

You see, if it were not for God giving us (for free) His righteousness, ours would have only kept us in prison of hell still.

You are not understanding the meaning. Read James and try to listen to what he is saying. "We are are justified by works, and not by faith alone. Faith is the first thing Christ tells us we need. The works are not works of vain merit. The works are merited grace to us because of faith.>>>CoachSTL

It is a hard thing to understand what a very simple function of the Holy Spirit is.

Would you say that faith in God is first recognized in the heart?

Would you say that the Holy Spirits’ stirring causes the heart to have faith in God?

If your answer to both of those questions is yes, than it is your souls’ heart (spirit) that has been reborn.

Rebirth means that your once dead spirit is now made alive in Jesus via the Holy Spirits stirring in your heart to repentance (Meaning a change of heart, of mind towards God).

Also rebirth means born of God and are as a son and one which will never again die.

Now, lets look at James faith by his works.

One can not do good works without having first the rebirth, a change of heart.

When that happens, good is the resultant because it is God in you that motivates the good works.

Without God in the so called “good works”, is no value, but as a false work.

Example: A rich man, in the name of God, gives away allot of money with the motive of a tax shelter, will bring nothing but damnation to himself.

So, I say to you, faith in God is what generates good works and not the other way around.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[ron77nyc]

ron,
Read the parable of the net (Mt 13:47ff). It should come as no surprise to find people in the Church who do not live up to their calling. The thing to note is that there is never a suggestion of getting rid of the net or finding another way to fish because the net has undesireable things in it. Christ warned us, “It is inevitable that scandal should occur.” (Mt 18:7) So in spite of the weaknesses of some we hold to the truth and authority of the Church’s teachings and try to remember the great number of those who have lived up to their calling down through the centuries.

There are 2 sides to the Church. The bride of Christ and the Vatican. There is a spiritual side and a political side. Beware of that political side.

 

[look3467]

I’m going to star calling you blind 3467! I like how you misconstrued the verses! Seriously go to college and get a degree on the matter so we can start agreeing with each other!

You think college would make a difference, over simple faith?

You think that a college degree is the only acceptable thing with God?

Well, how about a poor soul who has not the opportunity to be a college graduate, is salvation far from him?

God stirs a movement in the heart of your spirit, and that requires no special education, but simple faith, as the word says, faith the size of a mustard seed can move mountains.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[elvisman]

Maybe because I’m aware of what is going on.

WHAT is going on?

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink, or in respect of a festival day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbaths, 17 Which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ. 18 Let no man seduce you, willing in humility, and religion of angels, walking in the things which he hath not seen, in vain puffed up by the sense of his flesh, 19 And not holding the head, from which the whole body, by joints and bands, being supplied with nourishment and compacted, groweth unto the increase of God.

The head is Jesus and no one else..

Romans 14:5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.
Romans 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
Galatians 4:10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.

Observance of special days is the Old Covenant. Catholics are again condemned with mortal sin for not observing holy days..

These passages are referring to the Old Mosaic Law which NOBODY could adhere to completely. The fact that it was impossible illustrates that only with God are all things possible.

**As for mortal sin for not observing holy days - you’re off the mark. **The sin is in the direct disobedience and refusal.
You either have to come to terms with the fact that Jesus left a vibible Authority to his Church or not. If you accept this then you must accept all the truths of the Church. To reject them is to reject Jesus.
As I told you before - truth is truth.

Scriptures relating to the infallibility of Peter and “no salvation outside the church” were valid when they were first written but have proven themselves to be outdated. All popes are not in complete agreement on all issues of the faith so some of those popes have erred.

Truth doesn’t have an expiration date, my angry friend.
If it’s true 2000 years ago - today - and 2000 years from now.
What you are exhibiting is relativism - your trut*h vs. my truth.*
This is a slippery slope down a very dark path.

 

[elvisman]

There are 2 sides to the Church. The bride of Christ and the Vatican. There is a spiritual side and a political side. Beware of that political side.

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves"
— Matthew 7:15

In other words, beware of people who claim to represent the truth and spew lies and hatred. Sort of like a person who claims to be a Catholic yet speaks only evil about the Church.**

 

[cazayoux]

It seems like a contradiction. Fasting is a discipline but if you don’t do it you’ll be condemned to hell. What does that mean? You need some motivation so we’ll give it to you?

Fasting is not equated to escaping being condemned to hell.
It’s a practice.
It is a wholesome and good thing for your spiritual life.

michel

 

[cazayoux]

According to Catholic thought authenticity is based on longevity therefore the gates of hell will not prevail against anything that is not of God.

Not so.
Authenticity is based on the authority of the one that founded (Jesus) and leads (Holy Spirit) the church. You are right that the gates of hell will not prevail against that church.
Longevity is not the basis, but merely one proof-point, based on that very promise of Jesus.

michel

 

[ron77nyc]

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves"
— Matthew 7:15

In other words, beware of people who claim to represent the truth and spew lies and* hatred*. Sort of like a person who claims to be a Catholic yet speaks only evil about the Church.

I’m just answering questions that you initiated and maybe you can’t handle my response so you attack me and call me proud and evil. Don’t feel so threatened. I’m not a religious leader. No one follows me and I don’t want them to. I don’t come in sheep’s clothing. I have nothing to hide and nothing to gain by speaking my mind. I am an American. We do that here.

 

[cazayoux]

There are 2 sides to the Church. The bride of Christ and the Vatican. There is a spiritual side and a political side. Beware of that political side.

only two? …

The Bride of Christ
The Body of Christ
The pillar and foundation of truth
The branches of the vine
The one
The holy
The Catholic
The apostolic
:
:

 

[cazayoux]

Now, lets look at James faith by his works.

One can not do good works without having first the rebirth, a change of heart.

When that happens, good is the resultant because it is God in you that motivates the good works.

Without God in the so called “good works”, is no value, but as a false work.

Example: A rich man, in the name of God, gives away allot of money with the motive of a tax shelter, will bring nothing but damnation to himself.

So, I say to you, faith in God is what generates good works and not the other way around.

Peace>>>AJ

You have done a great job of stating the Catholic position on good works.

I thought of a question, though, since we are in James.
If one has faith and becomes a Christian and does not do good works, what kind of faith did he have?

michel

 

[cazayoux]

Rebirth means that your once dead spirit is now made alive in Jesus via the Holy Spirits stirring in your heart to repentance (Meaning a change of heart, of mind towards God).

Also rebirth means born of God and are as a son and one which will never again die.

“… and one which will never again die.”

Should I take this to mean that you think that once you are ‘reborn’, you assured of heaven?

michel

 

[elvisman]

I’m just answering questions that you initiated and maybe you can’t handle my response so you attack me and call me proud and evil. Don’t feel so threatened. I’m not a religious leader. No one follows me and I don’t want them to. I don’t come in sheep’s clothing. I have nothing to hide and nothing to gain by speaking my mind. I am an American. We do that here.

I’m not threatened by your apparent hatred of the Catholic Church. That is something you have to reconcile with God.

As for what you are or aren’t - There’s an old saying:
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and talks like a duck - it must be a duck.

By the way - I’m an American, too - but I’m a Christian first.
Would that you were as well . . .

 

[ron77nyc]

**I’m not **threatened by your apparent hatred of the Catholic Church. That is something you have to reconcile with God.

As for what you are or aren’t - There’s an old saying:
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and talks like a duck - it must be a duck.

By the way - I’m an American, too - but I’m a Christian first.
Would that you were as well . . .

Too bad you have to get angry and accusatory instead of just saying, “I disagree.” I know you want to have the last word so go ahead.

 

[elvisman]

Too bad you have to get angry and accusatory instead of just saying, “I disagree.” I know you want to have the last word so go ahead.

It’s not about having the last word. It’s about truth vs. your warped view of the truth. Somebody filled your head with a lot of falsehoods.

I’ll just say that I will pray for your return to the Church established by our Lord Jesus that is the pillar and foundation of truth - The Catholic Church.

 

[jake23]

You think college would make a difference, over simple faith?

You think that a college degree is the only acceptable thing with God?

Well, how about a poor soul who has not the opportunity to be a college graduate, is salvation far from him?

God stirs a movement in the heart of your spirit, and that requires no special education, but simple faith, as the word says, faith the size of a mustard seed can move mountains.

Peace>>>AJ

Once again over your head! No you dont need to got o college, just the catholic church! but if you are to dispute the church than yes you better get a college education on the matter! I like how you manipulate with the whole too poor for college comment! I am from a verry poor family and managed paying for college, infact still paying it, but hey good try! Do you even know the meaning of the parable of the mustard seed??? not likely. Seriousely you shouldnt make acusations when you are not knowledgable on the matter, which you are not. It amazes me how protestants can be so judgemental and opinionated but have no real knowledge of the Bible. Wow you can read an bible with english text! does not mean you understand it. Try to read a swedish novel translated to english and it will sound funny to you and you will misunderstand what the auther was trying to get accross! unless you are fluent in swedish! You are trying really hard to avoid the truth about the catholic church so why are you on here? We love to answer questions but you seem to disregard everything so what is your point? I only see hate and manipulation from you.