The Invention of Catholicism?

[trinitybeliever]

BTW, you can go to www.usccb.org and see the report for yourself.

atheist has a good point as does JM.
I am so glad that the Catholic Church ultimately has not only openly confessed the offenses publicly, (as Atheist1 kindly pointed out the US Bishops even have the news on their website for any one to see) the actual priests involved have been punished and the problem has been thoroughly exposed and continues to be discussed publicly. The Church hierarchy has privately and publicly apologized and will continue to. The Church has paid out tens (hundreds?) of Millions of dollars in restitution in multiple court cases. The Church has implemented a teaching program within for religious and laity called the “Virtus” program to recognize and expose these heinous behaviors to prevent them from happening again and to understand and empathize with victims of these assaults. While many do not seem to believe the Church can ever be forgiven for the actions of these relatively few priests. I have forgiven and will do my best to do my part in the healing and repair within our Holy Catholic Church. The fact remains that the Church NEVER has taught anything other than the truth. Unfortunately, Clergy and Laity are human and as such, will sin. Sin offends persons and also offends God our Father. I suppose, as Catholics, we should and will pay that penance. I know that we will. I also know the the gates of hell will not prevail against Jesus Christ’s holy Catholic Church.

God Bless.

Recognise Sin, Confess Sin, Apologize for Sin, Ask For Forgiveness, Offer penence for Sin.

“Forgive us our sins, As we forgive those who sin against us”

 

[dawid]

well how do you know that we are not saved?it is by faith in Jesus Christ and our hope in His promises that we believe we are Saved.

We are saved by grace.

 

[1beleevr]

Whew! jake23 is M-A-D! I guess I should have taken SteveGC’s advice and sent him a private message! And what hate have you seen; what answers have you given:Z-E-R-O! I was directed to this forum by Peggy Frye, who was either unable, or unwilling to answer a question I had! And as far as your claim of love, this is one ting I have seen little of(1John4:20) It has been quite interesting to “hear” all of the different personalities, both catholic, and non catholic. And yes, I am going to Heaven, are you? Even with all of your anger and hatred towards non catholics, I can still call you my Christian brother, because Jesus extended salvation to everyone! Is it difficult for you to accept people for who they are regardless of their race, color, or spiritual preference? Or do you only reach out to catholics, or those who want to convert? And don’t you think that if I wanted to be a catholic, I would have converted by now! I will pray for you, that God helps you with your anger issues.

 

[1beleevr]

Thank you, cazayoux, you just proved my point

 

[1beleevr]

The Truth is JESUS(John 14:6) He told us that we would Know the Truth, and the Truth would set us free! Someday we will know Him completely, and be dressed in His righteousness! Remember, in Acts 10, when Peter fell into a trance, and saw in a vision, a sheet, with all kinds of animals on it. He rejected because he didn’t feel like he should eat any of it. I believe God’s message here was that His grace was good enough for all, not just the Jews. In verse 34 of chapter 10, Peter says, “I can see very clearly that God shows no favoritism. He accepts all who fear Him and do what is right”. So, I guess that means that us non-catholics(Gentiles) can also share in God’s plan of salvation!

 

[1beleevr]

A question for all; do you enjoy a personal relationship with Jesus? Do you walk with Him. and talk with Him everyday? Can you feel the peace and joy only He can give you? We are not capable of generating that degree of contentment by ourselves. And He is approachable, not some distant entity, that we have to jump through hoops and go through mazes to reach! As I continue in this Christian walk, albeit a non catholic walk, as He increases, the things of this world decrease; Hallelujah, my Saviour lives!!! And the most beautiful thing about Him, is He is denomination blind; He sees only hearts, and seeks those who likewise seek after Him! No middleman needed, just go to Him in prayer, and ask. He has assured us that when we ask in His name, the Lord will listen. In a book entitled,“The Shack”, the author paints a picture of a Saviour that more Christians should get to know! Yes, it is right to stand in awe and reverence of Him, but He is also your Friend, your Advocate, your Comfort. No matter where you have come from or where you’re going, He has already traveled that road! He is available to all, regardless of your affiliation! God bless all my brothers and sisters in Christ!!

 

[SteveGC]

Amen, 1beleevr…

And I will speak for most, not all, Catholics on this board, and answer your initial questions with a hardy YES. And our Lord is most certainly accessible to everyone in the world, whether you are a member of The Church, or not.

No Catholic worth his salt would ever suggest or even hint at the fact that Jesus is bound up in The Church and is hidden from others. No way, no day. The Holy Spirit moves freely, endlessly throughout the entire world. This is Catholic teaching.

What we say, however, is that The Church, by virtue of her apostolic designation by Christ, is the conduit of The Holy Spirit. What does this mean? The Holy Spirit comes to the entire world through The Church, as if like a bridge between Heaven and earth. I know you will disagree to no end. And that’s okay. Suffice it to say that we do not discriminate, nor look down upon, nor suggest damnation to ANYONE, even the deliberate anti-Catholics. Jesus is certainly with my anti-Catholic Baptist family, I “see” it, can sense it without a doubt. Love like that is not man-made or forced.

All that said, Jesus wants us to BE ONE. Not one denomination…one BODY. It’s not enough to just be a scattered array of “believers”…unless those “believers” all believe the SAME thing, and ALL the same things that Jesus wants us to believe. Such is not the case, I’m afraid. Here’s some expansion of that from the Catechism:

CCC 831 Secondly, the Church is catholic because she has been sent out by Christ on a mission to the whole of the human race:
All men are called to belong to the new People of God. This People, therefore, while remaining one and only one, is to be spread throughout the whole world and to all ages in order that the design of God’s will may be fulfilled: he made human nature one in the beginning and has decreed that all his children who were scattered should be finally gathered together as one. . . . The character of universality which adorns the People of God is a gift from the Lord himself whereby the Catholic Church ceaselessly and efficaciously seeks for the return of all humanity and all its goods, under Christ the Head in the unity of his Spirit.

You see, the Catholic Church is not a building, or an exclusive club…it’s one body of unified believers. If you go to a parish is Oshkosh Wisconsin, and the next week go to Zimbabwe…the Mass is the same, the sacraments are the same, the teaching is the same, the faith and moral questions are answered in the SAME way. Does this by itself, mean we’re the Church of the NT? Perhaps not by that proof alone. But the Catholic Church is biblical, you just have to see through 2000 years of evolution to realize it.

God bless you on your journey. I do believe you know Christ in a very personal way, and He walks with you. Please understand that devout Catholics share this very same sentiment about their own faith…and so much more. Hard to explain.

God Bless

 

[jlhargus]

Who is JL? Did you mean me, or did you mean to say Ron?

JL: Jmcrae, I meant Ron, you were correct. I referenced you post as background.

 

[trinitybeliever]

Amen, 1beleevr…

And I will speak for most, not all, Catholics on this board, and answer your initial questions with a hardy YES. And our Lord is most certainly accessible to everyone in the world, whether you are a member of The Church, or not.

No Catholic worth his salt would ever suggest or even hint at the fact that Jesus is bound up in The Church and is hidden from others. No way, no day. The Holy Spirit moves freely, endlessly throughout the entire world. This is Catholic teaching.

What we say, however, is that The Church, by virtue of her apostolic designation by Christ, is the conduit of The Holy Spirit. What does this mean? The Holy Spirit comes to the entire world through The Church, as if like a bridge between Heaven and earth. I know you will disagree to no end. And that’s okay. Suffice it to say that we do not discriminate, nor look down upon, nor suggest damnation to ANYONE, even the deliberate anti-Catholics. Jesus is certainly with my anti-Catholic Baptist family, I “see” it, can sense it without a doubt. Love like that is not man-made or forced.

All that said, Jesus wants us to BE ONE. Not one denomination…one BODY. It’s not enough to just be a scattered array of “believers”…unless those “believers” all believe the SAME thing, and ALL the same things that Jesus wants us to believe. Such is not the case, I’m afraid. Here’s some expansion of that from the Catechism:

CCC 831 Secondly, the Church is catholic because she has been sent out by Christ on a mission to the whole of the human race:
All men are called to belong to the new People of God. This People, therefore, while remaining one and only one, is to be spread throughout the whole world and to all ages in order that the design of God’s will may be fulfilled: he made human nature one in the beginning and has decreed that all his children who were scattered should be finally gathered together as one. . . . The character of universality which adorns the People of God is a gift from the Lord himself whereby the Catholic Church ceaselessly and efficaciously seeks for the return of all humanity and all its goods, under Christ the Head in the unity of his Spirit.

You see, the Catholic Church is not a building, or an exclusive club…it’s one body of unified believers. If you go to a parish is Oshkosh Wisconsin, and the next week go to Zimbabwe…the Mass is the same, the sacraments are the same, the teaching is the same, the faith and moral questions are answered in the SAME way. Does this by itself, mean we’re the Church of the NT? Perhaps not by that proof alone. But the Catholic Church is biblical, you just have to see through 2000 years of evolution to realize it.

God bless you on your journey. I do believe you know Christ in a very personal way, and He walks with you. Please understand that devout Catholics share this very same sentiment about their own faith…and so much more. Hard to explain.

God Bless

AMEN!

 

[Rainman2]

Here’s my theory.
JESUS !

michel

Agreed!. I was wondering from the protestant perspective. What is their opinion?

 

[look3467]

Agreed!. I was wondering from the protestant perspective. What is their opinion?

It is Jesus as well!

Let me ask a question, how many ways can we honor Him with?

Coming from a point of reference, the heart; what is the standard if any, of honoring Him:

As a Catholic, a Protestant or any other view?

The real question is: Is Jesus your trusted Savior in whom you can rely to guarantee and TO hold your soul, in safe keeping (as in the wedding vowels) till your end regardless of your own behavior?

If you can, then, truly you are a child of God, for you will have given Jesus alone the credit, the honor and the glory for your souls salvation .

And that is key!

Peace>>>AJ

 

[Rainman2]

It is Jesus as well!

Let me ask a question, how many ways can we honor Him with?

Coming from a point of reference, the heart; what is the standard if any, of honoring Him:

As a Catholic, a Protestant or any other view?

The real question is: Is Jesus your trusted Savior in whom you can rely to guarantee and TO hold your soul, in safe keeping (as in the wedding vowels) till your end regardless of your own behavior?

If you can, then, truly you are a child of God, for you will have given Jesus alone the credit, the honor and the glory for your souls salvation .

And that is key!

Peace>>>AJ

Ok, and how does one show honor to God? We have to do our part by doing the will of God, as in:
Producing good fruit
Denying yourself and picking up Jesus’ cross daily
Keeping all the commandments
Properly caring for your family
Eating the flesh and drinking the blood of the Son of man
Forgiving others who have hurt you or angered you or mistreated you, etc.
Feeding the hungry and clothing the naked
Loving your brother
All of these instructions are in the Bible, and there are more works which show our love and honor to God. It is not just accepting Jesus as your Lord and Saviour.

 

[look3467]

Ok, and how does one show honor to God? We have to do our part by doing the will of God, as in:
Producing good fruit
That is a natural result if we love God.For He is the one credited.

Denying yourself and picking up Jesus’ cross daily.
That is according to your convictions as only you and the Lord know and of which is not the same or everyone.

Keeping all the commandments
There is only but two to keep, and if you strive to keep thoe two, you will have kept all of them.
Properly caring for your family.
Personal responsibility is everybody’s requirement.

Eating the flesh and drinking the blood of the Son of man.
That is a choice given to us to practice "as often as we meet"and however we do it, we do it in honor of Him.
Forgiving others who have hurt you or angered you or mistreated you, etc.
Number two commandment of the two Jesus gave us.

Feeding the hungry and clothing the naked.
If you find it in your heart to do, than do it without restraint, as it is a personal thing between you and God.

Loving your brother.
Number two commandment of the two Jesus gave us.

All of these instructions are in the Bible, and there are more works which show our love and honor to God. It is not just accepting Jesus as your Lord and Saviour.

Yes, your right, except you must first accept Him as Savior in order to follow His teachings.
You would not follow someone’s teachings with your life if you didn’t accept his teachings, would you.

To what degree, and to how you wish to honor Christ is between you and Him.

One thing for sure, is that He will not lead you astray but will only give you what He sees you are able to understand.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[WAYNE_LEYDS]

I don’t know if you are saved or not; I do not know what your beliefs are or to whom they are in. I hope you have received the gospel and the person of Christ.

lol! do you select to see what you want to see?did you not read my reply to you?or do you find it dificult to believe that catholics are saved?we are washed and covered with the blood of Christ!
maybe i should enlighten you…i have an uncle he is a catholic priest.he has the gift of healing.he does not pray to any1 but Jesus infact it is Jesus working through him.When ever he prays for some1 to be healed he invokes the name of Jesus!!and lo and behold the the person is healed.and he has medical backing for some of his healings stating that the persons having some illness or sickness was cured without the use of medical technology what so ever.

 

[jmcrae]

JL:

What does this part mean?

Jmcrae, I meant Ron, you were correct. I referenced you post as background.

Okay.

 

[look3467]

… do you find it difficult to believe that Catholics are saved?we are washed and covered with the blood of Christ!..

Does that mean you are, present tense, secure in your salvation? If yes, then join the protestants who believe by faith in the security of the believer.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[WAYNE_LEYDS]

Does that mean you are, present tense, secure in your salvation? If yes, then join the protestants who believe by faith in the security of the believer.

Peace>>>AJ

i think you do not understand what faith is.faith is believing.yes we are saved by our belief.but our actions justify our faith.faith is actually an action and not just a concept.
im sure you no of the stories of people in the bible?that their actions proved their faith.
every day i sin.and i am ashamed of this.because i remove myself from Gods love.though God never removes His love from me.so i have to recommit myself daily because even tho i believe, i am not perfect.and i should never be arrogant in my belief.always being humble always asking God for His grace.remember faith without works is dead!!

 

[look3467]

i think you do not understand what faith is.faith is believing.yes we are saved by our belief.but our actions justify our faith.faith is actually an action and not just a concept.
im sure you no of the stories of people in the bible?that their actions proved their faith.
every day i sin.and i am ashamed of this.because i remove myself from Gods love.though God never removes His love from me.so i have to recommit myself daily because even tho i believe, i am not perfect.and i should never be arrogant in my belief.always being humble always asking God for His grace.remember faith without works is dead!!

I fully understand what you are saying.
Perhaps, you don’t understand what I am saying?

Salvation is a work of God only, without our help. Meaning, you had no choice in the matter.
The only choice you have is to accept it or reject it, upon receiving knowledge of it.

To understand what that means of no choice, you must ask yourself this question: “Did I chose to be born into this fleshly body and to be alienated from God?”

Of course not, is the correct response, but then, did we have a choice in our being saved from eternal alienation?

The correct answer, of course not, for what part did we play in our gaining of the free gift?

Now, unless faith alone changes our hearts to a “new creature status” our personal works will not reflect it.

For only God in us will work a good in us by us.

…but our actions justify our faith…Wayne

True, it is a tell-tell of who you are, but are not some people doing good actions for the wrong motive, claiming their love for God?

Which brings it back to the heart of the matter, whether truly one has had a change of heart and mind to the point of now desiring with pleasure to do the things of God?

If that is the case, then what hinders us from performing the good that is in us willingly, verses the have to, in order to show that we are Christians?

I don’t disagree with anything you said, I’m addressing the need to understand why one would do good works verses “the need to”.

If God can not have your love willingly should He still want it?

Is that in line with this verse: Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

So unless we do it willingly, we shall be like as a burnt offering which took not the sins away.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[WAYNE_LEYDS]

i think look23467 you some how proved my point.and i agree with you too.God alone saves.we either accept or reject.and as you agree our faith is manifest in our love for Him by our love for others.otherwise show me your faith.

 

[look3467]

i think look23467 you some how proved my point.and i agree with you too.God alone saves.we either accept or reject.and as you agree our faith is manifest in our love for Him by our love for others.otherwise show me your faith.

So, if we both agree, what difference does your being a Catholic and I being a Protestant make as far as salvation is concerned and how we chose to worship God?

Peace>>>AJ