The Invisible Crisis: Small Children Crossing the US Border on Their Own

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markomalley said:
You were the one trying to drag it down a rathole by suggesting that the the government wholesale confiscate 80% of the income of certain people in order to finance this destabilization effort.
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I don’t recall ever doing so. Show me the quote.
 
North America should also seek to develop, wherever possible, a common approach in the broader international arena. For instance, whereas Canada, Mexico, and the United States are participating in talks for the Trans-Pacific Partnership, Washington is pursuing a free trade agreement with the European Union on its own. It would be preferable to bring Ottawa and Mexico City into this negotiation.

It also makes sense to explore how to align Canada and the United States with the Pacific Alliance – a coalition that unites Chile, Colombia, Mexico, and Peru in support of free trade and open economies – and pursue deeper cooperation between North and South America in addressing security, development, and governance challenges in Central America and the Caribbean.

Enhancing North American coordination in the fight against transnational criminal networks and drug traffickers should be another priority. Canada and the United States have a clear interest in supporting Mexico’s efforts to strengthen its rule of law institutions.

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.foreignaffairs.com%2Farticles%2F140940%2Fdavid-petraeus-and-robert-zoellick%2Fperfect-partners&ei=1cmeU9GSMI6TyASZ8oKgCQ&usg=AFQjCNEsPXv8Z82KKGUbfQa08afZgfKVnQ

Throughout the decade, well, before 2012, the average number of children crossing the border unaccompanied was approximately 7,000. This year, that number is expected to reach 90,000 and up to 130,000 next year.
 
Tomdstone said:
The thread concerns children crossing the border. IMHO, they are escaping the drug wars which have been inflicted on their area, at least partly, due to the demand in the United States for illegal drugs.
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You sure about this as it defies logic in my book. Some reports would have us believe that children made the rational decision to travel almost 2,000 miles on their own efforts! Of course, how they managed to cope with the trauma of leaving the only security they ever knew behind – their own families, how they got the physical necessities to survive a trip like that, and how they managed to evade the dangers of human traffickers and drug lords along the way is not speculated upon. Common sense alone would say that the fact that so many arrived here successfully was dependent upon some very major players lending assistance.
 
markomalley said:
Yes, envy is a really, really ugly thing. No matter what the math.
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You know, a few months ago I read a post on an immigration thread that accused most Americans of “despising the poor.” Those were his words, and although I will not mention the poster’s name the implication was there that we simply cannot be bothered with them and wish they would just go away.

Lately, and more often I perceive a *hatred * on these threads for the wealthy and have heard terms such as the filthy rich and the curse of the rich so prevalent is the socialists theme becoming. Will anyone re-read that portion of Rerum Novarem and search their hearts?
 
markomalley said:
Actually, this thread is about the callous attempt by the Obama Administration to use innocent children and (not so) innocent teens in yet another effort to destabilize this country even further than it is.

You were the one trying to drag it down a rathole by suggesting that the the government wholesale confiscate 80% of the income of certain people in order to finance this destabilization effort.

Yes, envy is a really, really ugly thing. No matter what the math.

edited to add an appropriate quote to substantiate my statement.
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You’re blinded by “envy” and while you’re wanting to attribute it to me, it is your own.

Whether you like it or not, this “humanitarian crisis” of immigration flooding in the United States includes the fact that the United States is the one funding it (to the tune of $1.9 BILLION dollars). You cannot escape a discussion about the FUNDING. And if you think that examining monetary resources is an act of “envy”, then I think you have a problem.

What an obstruction you’ve created! Get this “envy” BS out of the way.

A couple of months ago, after learning about Thomas Piketty’s book, I began a focused inquiry into the matter of wealth. I found that Forbes list and spent WEEKS examining way more than is relevant to this conversation, but what IS relevant I have brought. If you had even the slightest awareness of the REALITY, you might shed YOUR green skin and eyes, and actually SEE.

Isn’t it true that, just like Thomas Piketty, even the Church calls for economic reform?! Well then, is the Church aware that Thomas Piketty calls for 80% tax?! Do you understand what it means to tax 80% on people like Bill Gates and Christy Walton, versus taxing 80% on Mr. & Mrs. American Jones?

Get the simple point, markomalley.
 
gmx2014 said:
You’re blinded by “envy” and while you’re wanting to attribute it to me, it is your own.

Whether you like it or not, this “humanitarian crisis” of immigration flooding in the United States includes the fact that the United States is the one funding it (to the tune of $1.9 BILLION dollars). You cannot escape a discussion about the FUNDING. And if you think that examining monetary resources is an act of “envy”, then I think you have a problem.

What an obstruction you’ve created! Get this “envy” BS out of the way.

A couple of months ago, after learning about Thomas Piketty’s book, I began a focused inquiry into the matter of wealth. I found that Forbes list and spent WEEKS examining way more than is relevant to this conversation, but what IS relevant I have brought. If you had even the slightest awareness of the REALITY, you might shed YOUR green skin and eyes, and actually SEE.

Isn’t it true that, just like Thomas Piketty, even the Church calls for economic reform?! Well then, is the Church aware that Thomas Piketty calls for 80% tax?! Do you understand what it means to tax 80% on people like Bill Gates and Christy Walton, versus taxing 80% on Mr. & Mrs. American Jones?

Get the simple point, markomalley.
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:dts: I don’t recall the Church advocating stealing from the rich to help the poor.
 
gmx2014 said:
You’re blinded by “envy” and while you’re wanting to attribute it to me, it is your own.

Whether you like it or not, this “humanitarian crisis” of immigration flooding in the United States includes the fact that the United States is the one funding it (to the tune of $1.9 BILLION dollars). You cannot escape a discussion about the FUNDING. And if you think that examining monetary resources is an act of “envy”, then I think you have a problem.

What an obstruction you’ve created! Get this “envy” BS out of the way.

A couple of months ago, after learning about Thomas Piketty’s book, I began a focused inquiry into the matter of wealth. I found that Forbes list and spent WEEKS examining way more than is relevant to this conversation, but what IS relevant I have brought. If you had even the slightest awareness of the REALITY, you might shed YOUR green skin and eyes, and actually SEE.

Isn’t it true that, just like Thomas Piketty, even the Church calls for economic reform?! Well then, is the Church aware that Thomas Piketty calls for 80% tax?! Do you understand what it means to tax 80% on people like Bill Gates and Christy Walton, versus taxing 80% on Mr. & Mrs. American Jones?

Get the simple point, markomalley.
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You are quite right that the US is funding it. The US is also marketing it. This is another attempt to demolish the country at the hands of the socialist regime in power at this moment.

I also understand that wanting to tax ANYBODY at 80% is a violation of any form of justice. It is nothing but confiscation for the purpose of so-called equality.

For, while the socialists would destroy the “right” of property, alleging it to be a human invention altogether opposed to the inborn equality of man, and, claiming a community of goods, argue that poverty should not be peaceably endured, and that the property and privileges of the rich may be rightly invaded, the Church, with much greater wisdom and good sense, recognizes the inequality among men, who are born with different powers of body and mind, inequality in actual possession, also, and holds that the right of property and of ownership, which springs from nature itself, must not be touched and stands inviolate.

Leo XIII, Quod Apostolici Muneris, 9​

It should be noted that in today’s world, among other rights, the right of economic initiative is often suppressed. Yet it is a right which is important not only for the individual but also for the common good. Experience shows us that the denial of this right, or its limitation in the name of an alleged “equality” of everyone in society, diminishes, or in practice absolutely destroys the spirit of initiative, that is to say the creative subjectivity of the citizen. As a consequence, there arises, not so much a true equality as a “leveling down.” In the place of creative initiative there appears passivity, dependence and submission to the bureaucratic apparatus which, as the only “ordering” and “decision-making” body - if not also the “owner”- of the entire totality of goods and the means of production, puts everyone in a position of almost absolute dependence, which is similar to the traditional dependence of the worker-proletarian in capitalism. This provokes a sense of frustration or desperation and predisposes people to opt out of national life, impelling many to emigrate and also favoring a form of “psychological” emigration.

John Paul II, Sollicitudo Rei Socialis, 15​

Sorry if you have a hard time comprehending that.

Having said the above, cheap labor that will work for pennies on the dollar and will work in horrible conditions is a big reason why corporatists support illegal immigration. And why they attempt to coddle up to career politicians in an effort to have the law and supporting regulations written in such a fashion to benefit them having a steady stream of cheap labor.

But none of that is an excuse for wholesale confiscatory policies.

The movement to either confiscate outright the property of some or to impose confiscatory taxation is nothing more than envy. And it is horribly ugly.
 
A few questions I’d like to see asked and answered.
  1. How are these children making it by themselves across an entire continent?
  2. Why now? What is spurning on this massive wave?
  3. When something changes in almost the blink of an eye, something has fundamentally changed. What changed to have all these parents send their children across a continent?
  4. Why are we not getting these children stitched up, and then flying them back home?
 
Dawnia said:
:dts: I don’t recall the Church advocating stealing from the rich to help the poor.
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What?

So taxing the average American isn’t stealing, because the average American isn’t rich?

If I make $400,000 per year, you’re okay with taxing me at 40, 50 or even 80 percent … but …

it’s STEALING if I’m worth $400,000,000? Mind you, 400 million isn’t even half of one billion.

I think you have your view on “stealing” quite BACKWARDS.

What does $37.4 billion dollars look like, spelled out?

$37,400,000,000.00

Let’s try it this way, each million:

1,000,000
1,000,000
1,000,000
1,000,000
1,000,000
1,000,000
1,000,000
1,000,000
1,000,000
1,000,000

(that’s ten million, we have a LONG, LONG, LONG way to go).

It would be many GAZILLIONS of lines if I added up each million to total $37 billion. Any idea how LONG that list of millions would be?

And you want to tell me that taxing OBSCENE wealth is stealing. :eek:
 
gmx2014 said:
What?

So taxing the average American isn’t stealing, because the average American isn’t rich?

If I make $400,000 per year, you’re okay with taxing me at 40, 50 or even 80 percent … but …

it’s STEALING if I’m worth $400,000,000? Mind you, 400 million isn’t even half of one billion.

I think you have your view on “stealing” quite BACKWARDS.

What does $37.4 billion dollars look like, spelled out?

$37,400,000,000.00

Let’s try it this way, each million:

1,000,000
1,000,000
1,000,000
1,000,000
1,000,000
1,000,000
1,000,000
1,000,000
1,000,000
1,000,000

(that’s ten million, we have a LONG, LONG, LONG way to go).

It would be many GAZILLIONS of lines if I added up each million to total $37 billion. Any idea how LONG that list of millions would be?

And you want to tell me that taxing OBSCENE wealth is stealing. :eek:
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Obscenely taxing wealth is stealing.
 
Dawnia said:
Obscenely taxing wealth is stealing.
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Oh, please. How dare you.

As I’ve already said, something like 80% tax on $37 billion dollars still leaves over $7 billion.

80% tax on Bill Gates still leaves him with over $15 billion. Maybe you have no clue, the difference between one million and one billion. The difference is 999,000,000 (times 15).

You think THAT is stealing, when I think taxing 80% on Mr. & Mrs American Jones (who are worth $400k) is stealing.

Taxing 80% on $400k leaves $80,000. Compare that to 80% tax on $37 billion, leaving over $7 billion.

Go on, champ. Keeping rooting to defend the rich, poor them. Don’t forget who shops (and works) at Wal-Mart.

P.S. I’m not Thomas Piketty, author of a “best SELLER”, selling JUNK to the minds of readers. I’m just somebody who read what he said. 80% income tax, omg! Make sure you apply it to the people who CAN AFFORD to PAY 80 friggen percent!!!

Taxing 80% on 400k takes a person from the hundred thousand level to the ten thousand level. Taxing 80% on the billion level leaves a person AT THE BILLION LEVEL.

omg
 
gmx2014 said:
Oh, please. How dare you.

As I’ve already said, something like 80% tax on $37 billion dollars still leaves over $7 billion.

80% tax on Bill Gates still leaves him with over $15 billion. Maybe you have no clue, the difference between one million and one billion. The difference is 999,000,000 (times 15).

You think THAT is stealing, when I think taxing 80% on Mr. & Mrs American Jones (who are worth $400k) is stealing.

Taxing 80% on $400k leaves $80,000. Compare that to 80% tax on $37 billion, leaving over $7 billion.

Go on, champ. Keeping rooting to defend the rich, poor them. Don’t forget who shops (and works) at Wal-Mart.

P.S. I’m not Thomas Piketty, author of a “best SELLER”, selling JUNK to the minds of readers. I’m just somebody who read what he said. 80% income tax, omg! Make sure you apply it to the people who CAN AFFORD to PAY 80 friggen percent!!!

Taxing 80% on 400k takes a person from the hundred thousand level to the ten thousand level. Taxing 80% on the billion level leaves a person AT THE BILLION LEVEL.

omg
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:rolleyes:
 
Dawnia said:
What is there to say about envy?
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ARE YOU envious, Dawnia? Aren’t YOU the first person in this thread to enter into the discussion the matter of funding?
Dawnia said:
It’s the Republicans fault that all these children are being dumped on US soil? Sure, and the Easter Bunny can fly. This mess lies squarely with Obama and his pen & phone. It’s just one more unintended consequence of acting without thinking.

The parents saw an opportunity and they took it (I likely would have too if I was in their shoes.) An estimated 90,000+ children will be dumped in the US from south of the border this year alone. This causes a huge problem for our welfare systems. If you think people are suffering now from lack of funding, go ahead and try spreading those limited dollars to an addition 100,000+ people and add in the cost for foster care, education, etc. It won’t be the wealthy who suffer because of this disaster of an administration, it will be the poor who already live here that get stiffed. But, I guess those poor don’t count.

And while the Church is borderless, countries and their economies are not. Those children should be returned home to their parents where they belong.
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Discussion about poverty = safe.
Discussion about wealth = envy.

Give me a break. That’s mental conformity, mind control and brainwash, if I ever saw it!
 
Dawnia said:
:yawn:
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Dawnia, c’mon. I’m not saying anything too far off from your own words. markomalley threw an unnecessary wrench in the matter by casting “envy”. Sigh…

So, ah … where’s the United States going to get the $1.9 billion dollars for the future workers of Wal-Mart? Not from Wal-Mart!

How many of the DREAMERS are future workers at Wal-Mart, and how many are the next Bill Gates, or Christy Walton? Better yet, how many are the next Piketty, the next best selling author on “how to fix envy”?

'kay.
 
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