The Iranians Say the Holocaust Never Happened

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gilliam:
What is happening is that today many of those on the Left have embraced the age old hobby of blaiming Jews for problems. Since many Jews are back in their homeland, they have chosen to hate Israel. Their second choice of hatred is the Jews in America (that they call neocons) since that is the 2nd largest population of Jews on the planet.
From the hatred I have seen from this poster,I am ready to tell my uncle Joe to pack up with my aunt and move to an undisclosed location:nope:Not you Gilliam;) I understand more and more why you were so determined with St. James and it is not humorous at all:nope:
 
All Jews Are Not Zionists Although there are those who refuse to accept the teachings of our Rabbis and will continue to support the Zionist state, there are also many who are totally unaware of the history of Zionism and its contradiction to the beliefs of Torah-True Jews.
Words of the Rabbis Opposing Zionism - Today’s Quote Rabbi Amram Blau Rabbi Amram BlauThe Jewish People are absolutely opposed to any injury against the Arab nation. The Arab nation never harmed the Jewish People until the advent of Zionist nationalism. The Jewish People are commanded by the Torah to seek the peace of the governments where they are citizens, and not to rebel against any nation, G-d forbid, especially when this concerns the Holy Land, to which we are forbidden to engage in mass immigration.

Jews who follow the Torah are not even suspected of murder or any injury against any person, and we are severely prohibited from engaging in any violent action, including in relation to the struggle over Palestine. Judaism is totally opposed to nationalism, and in fact Jews have refused to move to the Zionist state even though the state proclaims itself as the representative of the Jewish People.
 
Frankly, who cares what the Iranians say??? I don’t have a whole lot of esteem for their government or where their culture is at this point in history. I would not want to live there. Unfortunately, most of the Mid-East is in spiritual and cultural darkness in the year 2005.
 
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Shoshana:
All Jews Are Not Zionists Although there are those who refuse to accept the teachings of our Rabbis and will continue to support the Zionist state, there are also many who are totally unaware of the history of Zionism and its contradiction to the beliefs of Torah-True Jews.
Words of the Rabbis Opposing Zionism - Today’s Quote Rabbi Amram Blau Rabbi Amram BlauThe Jewish People are absolutely opposed to any injury against the Arab nation. The Arab nation never harmed the Jewish People until the advent of Zionist nationalism. The Jewish People are commanded by the Torah to seek the peace of the governments where they are citizens, and not to rebel against any nation, G-d forbid, especially when this concerns the Holy Land, to which we are forbidden to engage in mass immigration.

Jews who follow the Torah are not even suspected of murder or any injury against any person, and we are severely prohibited from engaging in any violent action, including in relation to the struggle over Palestine. Judaism is totally opposed to nationalism, and in fact Jews have refused to move to the Zionist state even though the state proclaims itself as the representative of the Jewish People.
Thanks girl:) I at least know what the ranting and name calling is about:D If you find a more comprehensive link PM it to me.God Bless
 
Zionism

Jewish ideology that has focused on establishing a Jewish homeland. The name of “Zionism” comes from the hill Zion, the hill on which the Temple of Jerusalem was situated.
Zionism wanted to establish this homeland in Palestine, but there were many discussions on alternatives, where the use of land in Africa was perceived as a faster route to the final establishment of a Jewish state. The main organization of Zionism has always been The World Zionist organization.
Inside Zionism there have been several orientations: spiritual and cultural; work ethical; Marxist; and Orthodox Jewish. The central motivation of Zionism was the Diaspora, which started with the exile to Babylon in the 6th century BCE. By focusing on the Diaspora, the Jews living around world in many different countries, shared a feeling of being in exile from their true homeland in Palestine, with Jerusalem as its real capital.
In addition to being in exile, the Jews had also been waiting for the return of Messiah, the saviour that should be sent by God to come and re-establish Israel and justice. But over time more and more Jews started to become motivated for a human action in preparation for the coming of Messiah. Zionism was an expression of man’s will to act in order to fulfill the central promise of the Messianic idea.
Socialism had great impact on Zionism, and in early stages of Jewish immigration to Palestine, a large part of the immigrants were Marxists. The system of kibbutzes was formed after Socialist ideas. The kibbutzes were frequently used when Jews came to Palestine and settled. The kibbutzes served as a mini-state, where people could live, work, go to school and have health services. The kibbutzes were central in Jewish immigration right up until the formation of the State of Israel.
Zionism following the establishment of the state of Israel, is based on two principles: Upholding the State of Israel, and the right of any Jew to come here to live in Israel if he or she wants it.
HISTORY 18th century: The German Jewish philosopher Moses Mendelssohn initiates a Jewish secularism, which focused on Jewish national identity.
1862: The German Jew Moses Hess publishes the book Rome and Jerusalem where he called for a return of Jews to Palestine. He also said that Jews would never succeed by assimilating into European societies.
1881: Pogroms of Russia result in heavy emigration to USA. Some few Jews even emigrates to Palestine, as they are motivated by religious ideas of Palestine as Jewish homeland.
1893: Nathan Birnbaum introduces the term ‘Zionism’.
1896: The Austrian Jew Theodor Herzl publishes the book The Jewish State, where he declares that the cure for anti-semitism was the establishment of a Jewish state. As he saw it, the best place to establish this state was in Palestine, but this geography was no precondition.
1897: The 1st Zionist Congress is held in Basel in Switzerland. 200 delegates participates. The Basel Program is formulated, which calls for the creation of a Jewish homeland in Palestine, where Jews could live safely under public law. The World Zionist organization is also established, and establishes its head quarters in Vienna, Austria.
1903: Britain offers an area of 15,500 km² in Uganda in Africa, an area of virgin land to the Jews of the world, where a Jewish homeland could be established.
1905: 7th Zionist Congress refuses Britain’s Uganda proposal. Israel Zangwill forms the Jewish Territorial organization, which sought to find territory for a Jewish state, no matter where this would be. His organization got only few supporters.
— After the Russian revolution is defeated, many young Jews emigrate from Russia.
1917: The Balfour Declaration, issued by the British foreign secretary, gives official British support to the work on establishing a Jewish homeland in Palestine.
1922: Britain gives The World Zionist organization the mandate to administer Jewish immigration and settlement in Palestine. This immigration and settlement was funded by American Jews.
1939: The British ‘White Paper’ gives the Arabs of Palestine de facto control over Jewish immigration.
1942: A call is issued from Zionist leaders for the establishment of a Jewish state in all of western Palestine, when World War II ends.
1948 May 14: The State of Israel is founded. The World Zionist organization continues to back Jewish immigration to Israel.
1970s: The World Zionist organization puts its muscles into helping Jews in the Soviet Union to emigrate to Israel.
1975 November 10: UN General Assembly passes Resolution 3379, in which Zionism is declared “racist”, with 72 votes to 35 (32 abstentions).
1991 December 16: UN General Assembly revokes Resolution 3379, with 111 votes to 25 (13 abstentions).
 
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Shoshana:
People are absolutely opposed to any injury against the Arab nation. .
What Arab nation? There is no Arab nation and never was one, as far as I know. What are you talking about?
 
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Shoshana:
Jews who follow the Torah are not even suspected of murder or any injury against any person, and we are severely prohibited from engaging in any violent action, including in relation to the struggle over Palestine. Judaism is totally opposed to nationalism, and in fact Jews have refused to move to the Zionist state even though the state proclaims itself as the representative of the Jewish People.
There are a lot of orthodox Jews in Israel, so I don’t understand this paragraph either. It doesn’t make sense.
 
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Lisa4Catholics:
Gilliam,I am fixing to respond to your post and the tone is not at you and before I start I want you to know this.My uncle is a Jew,he and his two brothers,sister and parents escaped from Poland,before the Nazis could kill them.They used uncle Joe’s dad for a while as a blacksmith,when things started going bad for the nazis they had to run.All of the Family was INDEED MURDERED aside from the forementioned and one uncle.All Uncle Joes parents parents,their siblings, their neices and nephews dead,executed:mad: exterminated!My uncle is over 50 now he hoards and saves money in case he has to run again!Shame on them for printing this nonsense and I pray that one day they never have to suffer the same fate!
I am so sorry for what happened your Uncle…and I totally believe you…it happened alright and those who don’t believe it are ingnorant to the extreme.
 
Gilliam can you give a breif overview on the history of Isreal?God Bless
 
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aimee:
I am so sorry for what happened your Uncle…and I totally believe you…it happened alright and those who don’t believe it are ingnorant to the extreme.
Thanks aimee,I am quite distressed with a certain poster who has such angst for the Jewish people he would seek to belitle it.All humanity is made in the image and likeness of God nobody should ever hold such hatred in their heart.God Bless
 
There were six million human beings of the Jewish faith ‘and’ three million more non-Jews killed out-right by the German concentration camps - that is a historical fact.

BUT the overemphasis of one tragedy over all other similar tragedies is simply historical mind control and a *non sequitur *to American history.
 
Kevin Walker:
There were six million human beings of the Jewish faith ‘and’ three million more non-Jews killed out-right by the German concentration camps - that is a historical fact.

BUT the overemphasis of one tragedy over all other similar tragedies is simply historical mind control and a *non sequitur *to American history.
Sir, this thread is about the Jewish Holocaust!That touched my family and should never be belittled nor should any other mass murder.Mind control,Bah! Tell it to the survivors!
 
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gilliam:
What Arab nation? There is no Arab nation and never was one, as far as I know. What are you talking about?

There are a lot of orthodox Jews in Israel, so I don’t understand this paragraph either. It doesn’t make sense.

gilliam, these are not articles that I wrote, I certainly hope you realize that.

There are not a lot of Orthodox Jews is Israel.
The Land of Israel
Level: Basic

The Promised Land
The history of the Jewish people begins with Abraham, and the story of Abraham begins when G-d tells him to leave his homeland, promising Abraham and his descendants a new home in the land of Canaan. (Gen. 12). This is the land now known as Israel, named after Abraham’s grandson, whose descendants are the Jewish people. The land is often referred to as the Promised Land because of G-d’s repeated promise (Gen. 12:7, 13:15, 15:18, 17:8) to give the land to the descendants of Abraham.
The land is described repeatedly in the Torah as a good land and “a land flowing with milk and honey” (e.g., Ex. 3:8). This description may not seem to fit well with the desert images we see on the nightly news, but let’s keep in mind that the land was repeatedly abused by conquerors who were determined to make the land uninhabitable for the Jews. In the few decades since the Jewish people regained control of the land, we have seen a tremendous improvement in its agriculture. Israeli agriculture today has a very high yield.
Jews have lived in this land continuously from the time of its original conquest by Joshua more than 3200 years ago until the present day, though Jews were not always in political control of the land, and Jews were not always the majority of the land’s population.
The land of Israel is central to Judaism. A substantial portion of Jewish law is tied to the land of Israel, and can only be performed there. Some rabbis have declared that it is a mitzvah (commandment) to take possession of Israel and to live in it (relying on Num. 33:53). The Talmud indicates that the land itself is so holy that merely walking in it can gain you a place in the World to Come. Prayers for a return to Israel and Jerusalem are included in daily prayers as well as many holiday observances and special events.
Living outside of Israel is viewed as an unnatural state for a Jew. The world outside of Israel is often referred to as “galut,” which is usually translated as “diaspora” (dispersion), but a more literal translation would be “exile” or “captivity.” When we live outside of Israel, we are living in exile from our land.
Jews were exiled from the land of Israel by the Romans in 135 C.E., after they defeated the Jews in a three-year war, and Jews did not have any control over the land again until 1948 C.E.
Zionism and the Formation of the State of Israel
The Jewish people never gave up hope that we would someday return to our home in Israel. That hope is expressed in the song Ha-Tikvah (The Hope), the anthem of the Zionist movement and the state of Israel.
Kol od baleivav p’nima
Nefesh Y’hudi homiya Ul’fa-atey mizrach kadima Ayin L’Tziyon tzofiya Od lo avda tikvateynu
Hatikva bat sh’not alpayim
Lih’yot am chofshi b’artzenu
Eretz Tziyon v’yirushalayim.
Lih’yot am chofshi b’artzenu
Eretz Tziyon v’yirushalayim.

As long as deep within the heart
The Jewish soul is warm And toward the edges of the east An eye to Zion looks Our hope is not yet lost,
The hope of two thousand years To be a free people in our own land In the land of Zion and Jerusalem.
To be a free people in our own land In the land of Zion and Jerusalem.

But for a long time, this desire for our homeland was merely a vague hope without any concrete plans to achieve it. In the late 1800s, Theodor Herzl and Chaim Weizmann founded the Zionism, a political movement dedicated to the creation of a Jewish state in Israel. They saw the state of Israel as a necessary refuge for Jewish victims of oppression, especially in Russia, where pogroms were decimating the Jewish population.
The name “Zionism” comes from the word “Zion,” which was the name of a stronghold in Jerusalem. Over time, the term “Zion” came to be applied to Jerusalem in general, and later to the Jewish idea of utopia.

 
Zionism was not a religious movement; it was a primarily political. The early Zionists sought to establish a secular state of Israel, recognized by the world, through purely legal means. Theodor Herzl, for example, was a completely assimilated secular Jewish journalist. He felt little attachment to his Jewish heritage until he covered the trial of Alfred Dreyfus, a Jewish captain in the French military who was (unjustly) convicted of passing secrets to Germany. The charges against Dreyfus brought out a wave of anti-Jewish sentiment that shocked Herzl into realizing the need for a Jewish state. Early Zionists were so desperate for a refuge at one point that they actually considered a proposal to create a Jewish homeland in Uganda.

During World War I, the Zionist cause gained some degree of support from Great Britain. In a 1917 letter from British foreign secretary Lord Balfour to Jewish financier Lord Rothschild, the British government expressed a commitment to creating a Jewish homeland in Palestine. This letter is commonly known as the Balfour Declaration. Unfortunately, the British were speaking out of both sides of their mouth, simultaneously promising Arabs their freedom if they helped to defeat the Ottoman (Turkish) Empire, which at that time controlled most of the Middle East (including the modern states of Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, and Iraq, as well as significant portions of Saudi Arabia and northern Africa). The British promised the Arabs that they would limit Jewish settlement in Palestine mere months after the Balfour Declaration expressed support for “the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.”

After World War I, Palestine was assigned to the United Kingdom as a mandated territory by the League of Nations. The Palestinian Mandate initially included the lands that are now Israel and Jordan, but all lands east of the Jordan River were later placed into a separate mandate known as Transjordan (now the nation of Jordan). The document creating the Palestinian mandate incorporated the terms of the Balfour Declaration, promising the creation of a national Jewish homeland within the mandated territory. Although Arab leaders were initially willing to give Palestine to the Jews if the rest of the Arab lands in the Middle East were free, the Arabs living in Palestine vigorously opposed Jewish immigration into the territory and the idea of a Jewish homeland. It is around this time that the idea of Palestinian nationality (distinct from Arab nationality generally) first begins to appear. There were many riots in the territory, and the British came to believe that the conflicting claims were irreconcilable. In 1937, the British recommended partition of the territory.

The Holocaust brought the need for a Jewish homeland into sharp focus for both Jews and for the rest of the world. The Jews who tried to flee Nazi Germany were often turned back due to immigration limitations at the borders of every country, including the United States, Britain and Palestine. Many of those who were sent back to Germany ended up in death camps where they were systematically murdered.

The British were unable to come up with a solution that would satisfy either Arabs or Jews, so in 1947, they handed the problem to the newly-founded United Nations, which developed a partition plan dividing Palestine into Jewish and Arab portions. The plan was ratified in November 1947. The mandate expired on May 14, 1948 and British troops pulled out of Palestine. The Jews of Palestine promptly declared the creation of the State of Israel, which was recognized by several Western countries immediately.

However, the surrounding Arab nations did not recognize the validity of Israel and invaded, claiming that they were filling a vacuum created by the termination of the mandate and the absence of any legal authority to replace it. The Arabs fought a year-long war to drive the Jews out. Miraculously, the new state of Israel won this war, as well as every subsequent Arab-Israeli war, gaining territory every time the Arabs attacked them.
 
Israel Today
Today, approximately five million Jews, more than a third of the world’s Jewish population, live in the land of Israel. Jews make up more than eighty percent of the population of the land, and Jews are in political control of the land.

Jews continue to immigrate to Israel in large numbers. Immigration to Israel is referred to as aliyah (literally, ascension). Under Israel’s Law of Return, any Jew who has not renounced the Jewish faith (by converting to another religion) can automatically become an Israeli citizen. Gentiles may also become citizens of Israel after undergoing a standard naturalization process, much like the one required to become a United States citizen.

Most Jews today support the existence of the state of Israel. **However, there are a small number of secular Jews who are anti-Zionist. There is also a very small group of right-wing Orthodox Jews who object to the existence of the state of Israel, maintaining that it is a sin for us to create a Jewish state when the messiah has not yet come. **However, this viewpoint does not reflect the mainstream opinion of Orthodoxy. Most Orthodox Jews support the existence of the state of Israel as a homeland, even though it is not the theological state of Israel that will be brought about by the messiah.

Israel Links
This page barely scratches the surface of all there is to say about Israel and Zionism. There are entire sites devoted to these subjects. Here are a few that are worth checking out:

Virtual Jerusalem is a great place to start your search for information about Israel. The site is based in Israel, and has lots of useful information, including Israeli news, travel information, information about making aliyah, and lots of great links.

You can also find a lot of useful information and links in Shamash’s Israel section.

AICE is an organization devoted to fostering political, military and economic cooperation between the United States and Israel.

If you are interested in the history of Zionism, you may want to read the founding treatise on the subject, Theodor Herzl’s The Jewish State, which you can buy from amazon.com by clicking the title above.
 
THE FUTURE OF ISRAEL
by: Salim Khabbaza, Great Neck, NY

In your issue No: 70 you indicated, correctly, that the Arabs increase their population through high birth rates, whilst Israel depends on Aliya, and fails to catch up.

In fact, Aliya (immigration to Israel) cannot be depended upon, because many Jews in the Diaspora are themselves threatened by assimilation. The New York Times of 16th November, 1998, in an article about potential free trips to Israel by Jewish youths, writes:

‘The World Jewish Congress has projected that the Jewish population outside Israel, about 8 million people, will decline to about 4 million in the next 30 years. In the US, about half of all Jews marry non-Jews, and the children of a large majority of those intermarried couples do not remain Jewish.’

On the other hand, the same newspaper, in its issue of December 1st, 1998, writes: 'Ramallah, West Bank Nov 30 (AP) - The Palestinian population in the West Bank and Gaza Strip is expected to nearly triple in the next generation, from 2.6 million today, to 7.4 million in 2025, according to census projections made public today. The estimate is conservative, based on a 50 percent drop in the birth rate and the assumption that only a half million Palestinian exiles will return from abroad, said Hassan Abu Libdeh, head of the Palestinian Bureau of Statistics.

Demographics have always been an important element of the Israeli Palestinian conflict. The latest population figures will probably affect the negotiations between the two sides on a permanent peace agreement, which are now getting under way.’

Apart from the Arabs surrounding Israel, there are about one million Arabs now living in Israel proper and holding the Israeli citizenship. After several generations, this Arab minority will catch up and overtake the Jewish population of Israel. Then the Jews of Israel will become a minority in their own country, and Israel will become just another Arab country with a Jewish minority. This may sound alarming, but it is true.

Judaism existed before Christianity and before Islam. How come that the Christians and Moslems spread their respective religions far and wide, and established many independent states all over the world, whilst the Jews lived as scattered minorities among other peoples? High birth rates are certainly a factor, but birth rates are not and cannot be the only factor (the birth rate among orthodox Jews, for instance, is also high). So, what is the main reason?

It occurs to me that we, the Jews, constitute a closed society, piling up insurmountable obstacles in order to prevent or discourage conversion of non-Jews into Judaism. This is specially true in Israel, where conversions at the hands of Conservative or Reformist Rabbis are not recognised. On the other hand, Christianity and Islam, not only welcome conversion into their religions, but encourage such conversion. (The Christian Church employs missionaries for this purpose).

The question that arises is what is the remedy? What can be done to maintain the Jewish majority and the Jewish character of the State of Israel?

The existing laws in Israel tend to perpetuate the status quo and the looming danger. In the Knesset, small religious parties wield strong political influence which is disproportionate to the number of their followers. It is therefore necessary to amend the election law to exclude small parties. For instance, only political parties winning 25% or more of the total votes may be represented in the Knesset.

The next step would be to amend the Law of Return in order to exclude those who convert into Judaism in order to immigrate to Israel for economic reasons (like finding work), or because they have a criminal record outside Israel. Each application to immigrate should be dealt with on its own merit.
 
After the above two steps had been taken, it would be feasible to pass a law in the Knesset to recognise conversion into Judaism at the hands of Conservative and/or Reformist Rabbis. Then it will also be possible for the Jewish population of Israel to elect a Chief Rabbinate composed of Orthodox, Conservative and Reformist Rabbis, and the door will be open for quicker and easier conversion into Judaism without unnecessary obstacles. This will ensure that Israel will remain a Jewish state whose future is guaranteed for our children and grand-children.

I am fully aware that this is a sensitive subject, and the Orthodox Jews, who constitute a minority of about 10% of world Jewry, will object to such proposals on religious grounds. But they should remember that the tens of thousands of Israelis who made the ultimate sacrifice and gave their lives in five wars were driven by allegiance and love for Israel, regardless of their religious affiliation. The safety and future of Israel must come above all other considerations.

It would appear that the choice is between a Jewish state with liberal laws for recognising conversion into Judaism, and no Jewish state at all, if the Jews in Israel become a minority. In the latter case, the Arabs will achieve, through their higher birth rate, what they failed to achieve in 50 years of war. They will have done that ‘by peaceful means.’

Scribe: The main Jewish objective is to preserve the purity of the Torah - For this reason Jews cannot encourage large scale conversions or tamper with our religion. Our destiny is to remain a minority everywhere, and in order to survive we have to pursue a parasitical existence and endure the occupational hazard involved in this kind of existence.
 
Shoshana,

I know you are cutting and pasting. I also know I am confused what the person is saying, and so I asked the questions. I would prefer if you stop cutting and pasting and answer the questions. If you don’t know the answers, fine, just say so.

Overall population of Israel: Jewish 80.1% (Europe/America-born 32.1%, Israel-born 20.8%, Africa-born 14.6%, Asia-born 12.6%), non-Jewish 19.9% (mostly Arab) (1996 est.)

"Orthodox Jews make up only 10% of Israel’s population. But they control the parliament through political parties. The rulings put them at odds with secular Jews, who comprise 70% of the population. " Deseret News Archives,Saturday, March 6, 1999

10% would be a larger percentage of orthodox Jews in Israel than all the Jews in the US (which is about 2%)

30% of the Jews in Israel are practicing Jews (as you all them, “Jews of the Torah”) "However, observant Jews, who make up about 30 percent of Israel’s Jewish population, say daylight-saving time discourages people from observing religious ritual, such as morning prayers, which would have to be held an hour earlier than usual. " [Other sources indicate Israel is 83% Jewish. 30% of 83% is 24.9%] Deseret News (17 Feb 2000)
 
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