The Iranians Say the Holocaust Never Happened

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gilliam:
Shoshana,

I know you are cutting and pasting. I also know I am confused what the person is saying, and so I asked the questions. I would prefer if you stop cutting and pasting and answer the questions. If you don’t know the answers, fine, just say so.

Overall population of Israel: Jewish 80.1% (Europe/America-born 32.1%, Israel-born 20.8%, Africa-born 14.6%, Asia-born 12.6%), non-Jewish 19.9% (mostly Arab) (1996 est.)

"Orthodox Jews make up only 10% of Israel’s population. But they control the parliament through political parties. The rulings put them at odds with secular Jews, who comprise 70% of the population. " Deseret News Archives,Saturday, March 6, 1999

10% would be a larger percentage of orthodox Jews in Israel than all the Jews in the US (which is about 2%)

30% of the Jews in Israel are practicing Jews (as you all them, “Jews of the Torah”) "However, observant Jews, who make up about 30 percent of Israel’s Jewish population, say daylight-saving time discourages people from observing religious ritual, such as morning prayers, which would have to be held an hour earlier than usual. " [Other sources indicate Israel is 83% Jewish. 30% of 83% is 24.9%] Deseret News (17 Feb 2000)
Code:
I will take you advice gilliam and not cut and paste no more (I do not know how to just insert the link…😦 )

Anyway, my point is, from what I have understood in the past and now is:

Zionism is not necessarily unadulterated Judaism
Being anti-zionist is not necessarily anti-semitic although they may overlap.
Judaism according to the Orthodox Jew cannot embrace Zionism per se.

That is all I have to say. Thanks for your patience.

Blessings,
Shoshana
It looks like the Jews from Israel do call the arab countries around them ‘nations’…
 
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gilliam:
Shoshana,

I know you are cutting and pasting. I also know I am confused what the person is saying, and so I asked the questions. I would prefer if you stop cutting and pasting and answer the questions. If you don’t know the answers, fine, just say so.
Code:
OK gilliam I will stop. I just don’t know how to cut and paste the link…:o

The only thing I have to say is this:

Zionism does not necessarily reflect the Orthodox Judaism.
Being anti-zionist does not necessarily equate wit anti-semitism.
Orthodox Judaism will never embrace Zionism.

That’s it.
Blessings.
Shoshana
It looks like the Jews from Israel do call the countries around them as ‘nation’. Semantics, I suppose…
 
Sorry about the redundency of my post…I did not know that it went through…
 
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Shoshana:
Code:
OK gilliam I will stop. I just don’t know how to cut and paste the link…:o
Just highlight it in the address bar, press Ctrl-C and put your cursor in the compose message box and press Ctrl-V
When you save the message it will automatically be turned into a link.

The only thing I have to say is this:

Zionism does not necessarily reflect the Orthodox Judaism.
Being anti-zionist does not necessarily equate wit anti-semitism.

I agree about Orthodox Judaism. Unfortunately there is a new anti-semitism out there that is linked to anti-zionism.

Orthodox Judaism will never embrace Zionism.

There are plenty of Orthodox Jews who support the state of Israel.
Most Jews today support the existence of the state of Israel. However, there are a small number of secular Jews who are anti-Zionist. There is also a very small group of right-wing Orthodox Jews who object to the existence of the state of Israel, maintaining that it is a sin for us to create a Jewish state when the messiah has not yet come. However, this viewpoint does not reflect the mainstream opinion of Orthodoxy. Most Orthodox Jews support the existence of the state of Israel as a homeland, even though it is not the theological state of Israel that will be brought about by the messiah.

From: jewfaq.org/israel.htm
 
I suppose it is like in our faith where the ultra-Orthodox has seperated themselves from the mainstream Catholocism…or to a certain point, the traditionalist. All religions have them.

I do not know if anti-semitism is only a liberal thing. I know it is gaining great momentum all over the world. It is a sad situation overall and horrifying.

The Jews have been a scapegoat for many. Though, they themselves have done their fair share of persecuting the Catholics. I did not know this until reading about it on another forum. It is all anguishing. When will it stop?

I have always wondered whether the early writings of the Church Fathers could’ve influenced the people at the time on the hatred of the Jews. Again, I do not know. Many people are anti-semitic even our St Maxilmillian Kolbe prior to suffering with the Jews and losing his life to save a Jew.

‘From the Jewish point fo view, however, the issue was not so much Father Kolbe himself or even his personal connection to an anti-semitic newspaper. It was that he was a priest and that by sponsoring such newspapers, the church in Poland and throughout Europe abetted racial hatred and played into the Nazi hands This was an argument that few Catholics were willing to concede at the time.
Jurek had no question about where he stood in this matter: a man who was founder-director of a viciously anti-Semitic newspaper ought not to become a candidate for sainthood unless the circumstances of his martyrdom had involved saving a Jew’s life. In taking this position Jews in America and Israel, who expressed misgivings about the Kolbe beatification. The matter was especially sensitive because at this time the communist Polish government itself refused to acknowledge that Jews comprised the overwhelming majority of the victims murdered at Auschwitz. To beatify Kolbe, it seemed, firther minimized Jewish martyrdom.’

This is a book written by Darcey O’Brien about the relationship of Pope John Pauland his closest friend ,Jerzy Kluger,throughout his whole life. Very well written and a must read!👍

Blessings,
Shoshana
 
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Shoshana:
I suppose it is like in our faith where the ultra-Orthodox has seperated themselves from the mainstream Catholocism…or to a certain point, the traditionalist. All religions have them.
I suspect you are right.

I do not know if anti-semitism is only a liberal thing.
I am sure it isn’t.

take care
 
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Lisa4Catholics:
Sir, this thread is about the Jewish Holocaust!That touched my family and should never be belittled nor should any other mass murder.Mind control,Bah! Tell it to the survivors!
And Sir, the caption says Holocaust, not Jewish holocaust. The holocaust didn’t just happen to the Jews!

There are dozens of non-Jewish holocaust survivors living in my hometown of South Boston; and those Polish & Lithuanian Catholics have the concentration camp tattoos to prove it!
 
Kevin Walker:
And Sir, the caption says Holocaust, not Jewish holocaust. The holocaust didn’t just happen to the Jews!

There are dozens of non-Jewish holocaust survivors living in my hometown of South Boston; and those Polish & Lithuanian Catholics have the concentration camp tattoos to prove it!
The article that was origionally posted with this thread was saying it was a Jewish propaganda ploy it did not go into denying the other victims and neither do I.😦 My point here is that some HATE Jews so much they want to belittle what happened to them,and is trying to change the subject to dismiss the Jewish deaths.None of the deaths should be dismissed:mad: But I guess if people are going to hate Jews they will do it and see them as subhuman no matter what anybody says.
 
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Lisa4Catholics:
The article that was origionally posted with this thread was saying it was a Jewish propaganda ploy it did not go into denying the other victims and neither do I.😦 My point here is that some HATE Jews so much they want to belittle what happened to them,and is trying to change the subject to dismiss the Jewish deaths.None of the deaths should be dismissed:mad: But I guess if people are going to hate Jews they will do it and see them as subhuman no matter what anybody says.
So I’m glad I didn’t say it nor implied it.
 
Kevin Walker:
So I’m glad I didn’t say it nor implied it.
Kevin it is not you:) God Bless
PS you walked in on a contraversy in progress;)
 
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Lisa4Catholics:
Kevin it is not you:) God Bless
PS you walked in on a contraversy in progress;)
Ooooops; *Nevermind :o *

But it wasn’t just Jews who died in the Holocaust nevertheless!!!
 
If anyone thinks the Holocaust was just a lie, I invite you to come to the National Archives (where I work) and I will show you images of the piles of bodies, gas chambers, and starving, miserable people that the government will not release to the public.
 
And maybe the people who decry the Holocaust should go to Yad Vashem amd see life-size posters on the many Jews who walked around naked who looked more like skeletons, the many Jews who lay on the floor looking more like a heap of bones and the many piles of Jewish bodies dead and gone to this world being put in wheelborrows so that they may be burned…

Maybe they should go to the Children’s Memorial in Jerusalem…

But, yes, there have been 6 other million souls who have lost their lives because they did not fit in. And many of these were Catholics and priests to boot! We should mourn ALL of them…not just half of them…:crying:

Blessings,
Shoshana
 
I don’t think it’s fair to say, Iranians believe a certain way when it was the Iranian newspaper that stated a skewed “fact”.
There are many articles and skewed facts in the NYT which do not represent the majority of Americans. Would it be fair for someone to take a headline and say ,“Americans believe such and such?”
 
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Shoshana:
And maybe the people who decry the Holocaust should go to Yad Vashem amd see life-size posters on the many Jews who walked around naked who looked more like skeletons, the many Jews who lay on the floor looking more like a heap of bones and the many piles of Jewish bodies dead and gone to this world being put in wheelborrows so that they may be burned…

Maybe they should go to the Children’s Memorial in Jerusalem…

But, yes, there have been 6 other million souls who have lost their lives because they did not fit in. And many of these were Catholics and priests to boot! We should mourn ALL of them…not just half of them…:crying:

Blessings,
Shoshana
No we shouldnt forget any of them. Unfortunately like I said I had been put on the defensive about the Jewish people in several threads I am in no way trying to overlook,skate over or dismiss ANY of the victims.My responses have been to a particular person who has attacked Jewish people over and over again.So please I was not trying to ignore the other victims it was a personal emotional response and I apologise if anyone felt I was trying to overlook the other victims.It was not my intent.God Bless
 
Did anyone see Public Television last night?? Here in Oregon OBP there was a documentary on Auschwitz. Pictures, interviews with survivors.

Horrific.
 
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jlw:
Did anyone see Public Television last night?? Here in Oregon OBP there was a documentary on Auschwitz. Pictures, interviews with survivors.

Horrific.
I didn’t see the one last night,but have seen some on the history channel and the discovery channel. It is nightmarish.😦
 
IF you think the iranians are alone then maybe you should read this

Young Germans Resist 'Holocaust Education’

No country, with the possible exception of the United States, has been so massively subjected to “Holocaustomania” as Germany. The campaign includes mandatory “Holocaust education” in schools, extensive treatment on television and in newspapers and magazines, “Holocaust”-theme motion pictures, and formal government ceremonies and solemn pronouncements by public figures. But this costly, seemingly endless effort doesn’t seem to be paying off, especially in shaping the attitudes of younger people.

Two-thirds of Germans aged 14 to 18 do not even know what the term “Holocaust” means, according to a new “Emnid” public opinion survey cited recently by a member of the Baden-Württemberg provincial legislature. Moreover, 20 percent of Germans youths are unfamiliar with the term “Auschwitz.” (“Aufklärung über NS-Zeit verbessern,” Stuttgarter Zeitung, No. 190, Aug. 18, 2000.)

A clear majority of young Germans surveyed – 62 percent – oppose punishing persons who “deny the Holocaust.” (In Germany, as in several other European countries, “Holocaust denial” is a crime.)

As a result of all this, lamented SPD legislator Norbert Zeller, many teenagers don’t regard the events of the Holocaust as objectionable. To counter this, he went on to declare, German schools should deal even more intensively with the “Holocaust.”
ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n5p24_resistance.html

how scary is this?

Pray that it never happens again and that we can teach the younger generations because those that do not remember history are doom to repeat it.

God Bless
Beckers
 
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Lilyofthevalley:
I don’t think it’s fair to say, Iranians believe a certain way when it was the Iranian newspaper that stated a skewed “fact”.
There are many articles and skewed facts in the NYT which do not represent the majority of Americans. Would it be fair for someone to take a headline and say ,“Americans believe such and such?”
I think that Lily has a good point. I detest most articles in the NYT. I can’t even read them anymore without getting enraged. I would hate to think I was judged on their tone.
 
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StratusRose:
If anyone thinks the Holocaust was just a lie, I invite you to come to the National Archives (where I work) and I will show you images of the piles of bodies, gas chambers, and starving, miserable people that the government will not release to the public.
Or to go to Dachau outside Munich. I visited there in 1975. You could still smell the odor of burning flesh.
 
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