C
ConstantineTG
Guest
But they are a whiny bunch, we shouldn’t waste our lives trying to please them
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M
McCall1981
Guest
Pope Francis leads the Italian Bishops in Profession of Faith:
en.radiovaticana.va/m_articolo.asp?c=695043
"As it was for Peter, the insistent and heartfelt question of Jesus can leave us saddened and may leave us more aware of the weakness of our freedom, beset as it is by a thousand internal and external constraints, which often cause confusion, frustration, even disbelief.
These are certainly not the feelings and attitudes that the Lord intends to arouse; rather, the Enemy, the Devil, takes advantage of them to isolate us in bitterness, in complaints, and in discouragement.
Jesus, the Good Shepherd, does not humiliate us or abandon us to remorse: in Him, the tenderness of the Father speaks, He who comforts and raises up; He who makes us pass from the disintegration of shame – because shame surely causes us to disintegrate – to the fabric of trust; who restores courage, recommits responsibility, and consigns us to the mission."
…
"Mother of the silence that preserves the mystery of God, deliver us from the idolatry of the present, to which those who forget are condemned. Purify the eyes of pastors with the balm of memory:
that we might return to the freshness of the beginning, for a praying and penitent Church.
Mother of the beauty that blossoms from fidelity to daily work, remove us from the torpor of laziness, of pettiness, and defeatism. Cloak Pastors with that compassion that unifies and integrates: that we might discover the joy of a humble and fraternal servant Church.
Mother of the tenderness which enfolds in patience and mercy, help us burn away the sadness, impatience, and rigidity of those who have not known what it means to belong.
Intercede with your Son that our hands, our feet and our hearts may be swift: that we may build the Church with the truth in charity.
Mother, we will be the People of God, on pilgrimage towards the Kingdom."
en.radiovaticana.va/m_articolo.asp?c=695043
"As it was for Peter, the insistent and heartfelt question of Jesus can leave us saddened and may leave us more aware of the weakness of our freedom, beset as it is by a thousand internal and external constraints, which often cause confusion, frustration, even disbelief.
These are certainly not the feelings and attitudes that the Lord intends to arouse; rather, the Enemy, the Devil, takes advantage of them to isolate us in bitterness, in complaints, and in discouragement.
Jesus, the Good Shepherd, does not humiliate us or abandon us to remorse: in Him, the tenderness of the Father speaks, He who comforts and raises up; He who makes us pass from the disintegration of shame – because shame surely causes us to disintegrate – to the fabric of trust; who restores courage, recommits responsibility, and consigns us to the mission."
…
"Mother of the silence that preserves the mystery of God, deliver us from the idolatry of the present, to which those who forget are condemned. Purify the eyes of pastors with the balm of memory:
that we might return to the freshness of the beginning, for a praying and penitent Church.
Mother of the beauty that blossoms from fidelity to daily work, remove us from the torpor of laziness, of pettiness, and defeatism. Cloak Pastors with that compassion that unifies and integrates: that we might discover the joy of a humble and fraternal servant Church.
Mother of the tenderness which enfolds in patience and mercy, help us burn away the sadness, impatience, and rigidity of those who have not known what it means to belong.
Intercede with your Son that our hands, our feet and our hearts may be swift: that we may build the Church with the truth in charity.
Mother, we will be the People of God, on pilgrimage towards the Kingdom."
E
Elizabeth502
Guest
I beg to differ that “parents share the blame.” Not all parents. Many parents were undermined in their efforts by bad catechists and indifferent parish staff. Students in CCD classes and in Catholic schools have received contradictory information, which confused.
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Jon_S_1
Guest
I JUST KNEW THIS WOULD MAKE THE FORUM
HERE’S THE DEAL FOLKS
WHAT DOES “REDEEMED” MEAN?
BY HIS BIRTH; LIFE, DEATH AND RESURRECTION CHRIST HAS REDEEMED THE ENTIRE WORLD!
THIS MEANS THAT HEAVENS ACCESS WHICH HAD BEEN BLOCKED BY THE SIN OF ADAM AND EVE WAS NOT OFFSET AND THE SOULS IN THE LIMBO OF THE FATHERS COULD NOT ACTUALLY ATTAIN THE BEATIFIC VISION.
PROTESTANTS AND UNDER EDUCATED JOURNALIST USE “REDEEM” AND “SAVIOR /SALVAION” AS SYNOMOUS TERMS, WHICH IS WHERE AND WHY THEY ARE SO VERY WRONG ON THERE INVENTED MEANS FOR ONES SALVATION.
AS WE CATHOLICS WOULD AND SHOULD EXPECT; OUR POPE IS RIGHT:thumbsup:CHRIST HAS REDEEMED THE ENTIRE WORLD; BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT EVERYONE IS SAVED; OR THERE IS A NEW CATHOLIC THEOLOGICAL POSITION ON THIS ISSUE. NOT
po18guy
Well-known member
Did any of those parents seek out orthodox teaching, or teach from the catechism? At our children’s baptism, we are reminded that we are the first teachers of our children. It falls back on us - we are the safety net, not the other way around. To rely absolutely on the Church is to wait for someone else to do it. It helps here to reflect on a quote that I believe is misattributed to G.K. Chesterton regarding what is wrong with the Church: “I am”
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Elizabeth502
Guest
I am well aware of the requirements, and provided more than my share in that department. Children are still susceptible to contradictory information when they are not homeschooled. Children in any school environment and CCD environment are often receiving heterodox, confusing, or ambiguous information. You can deny it all you want, but it is still happening, and it is something which invades and erodes those parental counter-efforts, and regularly.
…“The primary educators of their children,” is the phrase. Not the only educators, not the educators who need to battle daily the poor catechesis being delivered. That has never been the intention of the Church. The formal, institutional catechesis was to complement, not oppose, the parental efforts. Yet that is NOT what occurred.
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McCall1981
Guest
Originally Posted by PJM
I JUST KNEW THIS WOULD MAKE THE FORUM
HERE’S THE DEAL FOLKS
WHAT DOES “REDEEMED” MEAN?
BY HIS BIRTH; LIFE, DEATH AND RESURRECTION CHRIST HAS REDEEMED THE ENTIRE WORLD!
THIS MEANS THAT HEAVENS ACCESS WHICH HAD BEEN BLOCKED BY THE SIN OF ADAM AND EVE WAS NOT OFFSET AND THE SOULS IN THE LIMBO OF THE FATHERS COULD NOT ACTUALLY ATTAIN THE BEATIFIC VISION.
PROTESTANTS AND UNDER EDUCATED JOURNALIST USE “REDEEM” AND “SAVIOR /SALVAION” AS SYNOMOUS TERMS, WHICH IS WHERE AND WHY THEY ARE SO VERY WRONG ON THERE INVENTED MEANS FOR ONES SALVATION.
AS WE CATHOLICS WOULD AND SHOULD EXPECT; OUR POPE IS RIGHTCHRIST HAS REDEEMED THE ENTIRE WORLD; BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT EVERYONE IS SAVED; OR THERE IS A NEW CATHOLIC THEOLOGICAL POSITION ON THIS ISSUE. NOT
@ Jon S
This is great, I wanted to repost this just so I could give it another:
I expect the MSM will be posting this message to clear up the confusion any minute now, right? Any minute now…
O
otjm
Guest
But what is the solution, is also the problem.
There just flat out is too much information, and it flows too freely. 30 years ago there would be no reporting of what the Pope said in his homily. Now it goes out within minutes, and every fool and idiot has an opportunity to pontificate on the matter, never mind they have no training to do so.
The confusion is not the Pope’s fault. He does not need to “foresee” what possible problems might arise from every word that issues from his mouth. the confusion is the fault of those who uncritically take in everything that is said, and try to run it against their (too often poorly made) list of what is “authentically” Catholic. When Catholics who are poorly trained listen to others who are poorly trained, it is not the Pope’s fault.
The comment “ask the priest” is brilliant - they are trained. Huffington Post is not. Way, way too many people on forums are not.
And way, way too many people on forums start analysis on matters of which they know little, and they compound it by taking things out of context.
Who is the Pope? 1) a Cardinal and Archbishop - that in itself should give people pause to think that just possibly, he knows the faith better than they do. 2) a Jesuit, in the tradition of the Jesuits, before some of them went wandering down various rabbit holes (because not all did, and there is enough information as to how he fared early on to indicate his orthodoxy). 3) a Jesuit with a Franciscan spirituality. That means we are going to hear a few things that are going to sound strange, because they come across differently than what we have heard before. 4) Pope, selected under the guidance of the Holy Spirit by the Cardinal electors of the Church.
When you are confused, re-read the above. Then calm down, take a deep breath, quit panicking and if you don’t understand, “ask a priest”.
Christ did not say “Come, be a theologian”. He said “Come, follow me”. I have seen more over-reacting on some of his (the Pope’s) comments than when one of my daughters was in her first high school play!
Our responsibility is first and foremost working out our own salvation. Christ didn’t make it that complicated; we shouldn’t either; and if it is getting so, we need to step back and ask “What does this have to do with my salvation?” That is not to say we should not learn more about our faith; but getting into a long tailspin about a comment the Pope made may not be what we need to focus on most.
po18guy
Well-known member
Some time back, I tried a solution. I stopped the newspaper. Stopped news magazines. I turned off the TV for good. I switched the radio to the Catholic station. I let it all sink in and I am happier and more secure in my faith than ever. Let the world confuse itself. Those who really want the truth will listen to the Church.
Look at our Lord Himself. He was Emmanuel, God with us. Yet, as recorded in John 6:66, even He could not keep most of His disciples from leaving Him. Should we expect better than this from sinful men?
po18guy
Well-known member
I obviously did not make my point clear, yet again. I am denying nothing. My point is that we cannot throw everything onto the Church, then blame them when all fails. We cannot require that anyone else train our children in the faith - not even neighbors or fellow parishioners - they do not love our children as we do. That “let someone else do it” attitude has gotten us the unwieldy, cumbersome and increasingly abusive government that we now have. Just as with homeschooling, there is much that we, as members of Christ’s Body, have to do ourselves. Be the primary teachers of our children is the first of those things.
Now, we return to the thread, already in progress…
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Lucky7
Guest
Could someone show me where the Catechism states that the un-baptized are “children of God”?
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Lucky7
Guest
And once again we have someone telling others what they should or should not be doing (or posters who “know” the hearts of others). The fact of the matter is that what the Pope says is “out there”. I do know (and everyone else knows). I could just sit and worry about just “my” salvation (which I do by the way, thanks), but I happen to think what the Pope says (and what other Church leaders say and do) affects others as well as how others view the Church. If you (and others) choose to ignore that, that’s fine. But I’m tired of others sitting in judgment over what I (and others with sincere concerns) find important to focus on.But what is the solution, is also the problem.
There just flat out is too much information, and it flows too freely. 30 years ago there would be no reporting of what the Pope said in his homily. Now it goes out within minutes, and every fool and idiot has an opportunity to pontificate on the matter, never mind they have no training to do so.
The confusion is not the Pope’s fault. He does not need to “foresee” what possible problems might arise from every word that issues from his mouth. the confusion is the fault of those who uncritically take in everything that is said, and try to run it against their (too often poorly made) list of what is “authentically” Catholic. When Catholics who are poorly trained listen to others who are poorly trained, it is not the Pope’s fault.
The comment “ask the priest” is brilliant - they are trained. Huffington Post is not. Way, way too many people on forums are not.
And way, way too many people on forums start analysis on matters of which they know little, and they compound it by taking things out of context.
Who is the Pope? 1) a Cardinal and Archbishop - that in itself should give people pause to think that just possibly, he knows the faith better than they do. 2) a Jesuit, in the tradition of the Jesuits, before some of them went wandering down various rabbit holes (because not all did, and there is enough information as to how he fared early on to indicate his orthodoxy). 3) a Jesuit with a Franciscan spirituality. That means we are going to hear a few things that are going to sound strange, because they come across differently than what we have heard before. 4) Pope, selected under the guidance of the Holy Spirit by the Cardinal electors of the Church.
When you are confused, re-read the above. Then calm down, take a deep breath, quit panicking and if you don’t understand, “ask a priest”.
Christ did not say “Come, be a theologian”. He said “Come, follow me”. I have seen more over-reacting on some of his (the Pope’s) comments than when one of my daughters was in her first high school play!
Our responsibility is first and foremost working out our own salvation. Christ didn’t make it that complicated; we shouldn’t either; and if it is getting so, we need to step back and ask “What does this have to do with my salvation?” That is not to say we should not learn more about our faith; but getting into a long tailspin about a comment the Pope made may not be what we need to focus on most.
If any of you believe that your salvation is all there is to worry about, then perhaps that’s all you should worry or opine about.
T
Theresaj
Guest
I have read the homily, and prayed about it, and read it to my Protestant husband. It touched me on a very personal level and here is why. I do not get to decide who walks through the gates of heaven. I am not in charge of that and I am so forever grateful for this. I am only responsible for raising my children and how I live out my life. I was raised by a religious mother, Protestant, and an agnostic father. Of the two my father’s good works far exceed those of anyone I’ve ever known, until I met my husband. I have always tried to follow the faith of my mother and the works of my father.
The words of the Pope say to those like my dad, there is a place for you here. You are marked by how you have lived, come talk. It is an invitation to fellowship, evangelical and welcoming.Pope Francis is reaching out to all and I believe that his voice is being heard.
The words of the Pope say to those like my dad, there is a place for you here. You are marked by how you have lived, come talk. It is an invitation to fellowship, evangelical and welcoming.Pope Francis is reaching out to all and I believe that his voice is being heard.
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simple_soul
Guest
Are you sure it is the Pope who is playing right into the PC crowds hands?
If you say yes how do you know that? Can you read the Pope’s mind? Do you really beleive he is that ignorant or nieve?
Here’s a thought, maybe it is they who are playing right into his hands.
S
simple_soul
Guest
Theresa thank you for this beautiful and heartwarming testimony.
God Bless you and yours
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clem456
Guest
Looking at it from another angle, can you show where it is ok to murder or otherwise trample on the dignity of any particular person?
If not, why not?
What is it about any particular person that argues for their value and protection. Is it merely that the catechism or the bible says it is prohibited? Or is there something foundational about the creation of every human being that merits respect? And who is that foundation, for every person created?
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clem456
Guest
Just so I understand the thinking process here…
It’s true then that some of you would also be upset if Pope Francis came out tomorrow and said:
“The Catholic Church is the only way to salvation”
becasue that would be confusing and used by people to twist and misinterpret the Church’s teaching? Do I understand this correctly? The Pope should not be saying things that might be hard for some to understand and can be misinterpreted?
It’s true then that some of you would also be upset if Pope Francis came out tomorrow and said:
“The Catholic Church is the only way to salvation”
becasue that would be confusing and used by people to twist and misinterpret the Church’s teaching? Do I understand this correctly? The Pope should not be saying things that might be hard for some to understand and can be misinterpreted?
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Lucky7
Guest
I’m sorry, are you insinuating that I am “trampling” on the dignity of others? I just want to make sure I’m understanding your challenge here.
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clem456
Guest
Good observation.
Mathew 20 1-16, in regards to those who seem to be laggards, or on the outside looking in, Christ looks at the core issue that produces much of the anxiety in this area…
Envy. Of God’s goodness to “outsiders”.
“Are you envious because I am generous?”
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clem456
Guest
No, please just read the post for what it says.
Why do we respect the dignity of every person? Is that because of something that person haas attained? Or is it because of who they are, in God?
You asked “where in the catechism is says unbaptized are children of God.” That is what I am specifically discussing.
- Status